[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by ASAP

its 200lbs heavier than the panamera... and thats beside that fact that a pure ICE panamera exists

The Panamera is 2,365Kg vs 2435Kg for the M5. These are the DIN unladen weights for the 2025 models of both so an apples to apples comparison. That is a 70Kg difference, or 156 pounds. If the CCB’s are added to the M5 (they are stock on the Panamera) the weight difference is now 100 pounds. Or the M5 is less than 2% heavier when equally equipped. If you add the carbon roof to the M5 we are now within 35 pounds of each other.

Who cares if they make a pure ICE Panamera. Your point was that at this weight and power level the vehicle won’t have adequate brakes. I simply offered that a nearly identical vehicle with a nearly identical powertrain manages to stop from 60mph in the same distance as previous generations M5’s have.

If this generation M5 is “underbraked” for more power, then so was the previous M5.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by ASAP

yes, except the x5m is an suv... and the other 2 both have lighter versions available that are ice only... and those are the tuners preferred choices

Not sure what your angle is here but this is a space for enthusiasts and buyers to discuss the G90, not to have it thrashed by naysayers.
Getting very bored of folk who’ll never buy the vehicle tacitly implying we’re all a bunch of morons for doing so.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

Not sure what your angle is here but this is a space for enthusiasts and buyers to discuss the G90, not to have it thrashed by naysayers.
Getting very bored of folk who’ll never buy the vehicle tacitly implying we’re all a bunch of morons for doing so.

last i checked this was a forum to share opinions liked or not... otherwise the internet may not be the right place for such a forum...

only angle here is weight which will undoubtably hurt the cars performance in every way, thats not an opinion but a fact...

only sales will dictate this cars success... i will only say this... the m3 comp x still cannot be easily had 3 years later... i know of 2 m5 still sitting locally to me and other that have mentioned the same

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by Elitedax3

This will be my first BMW.

I clicked the link and read through the details on the JB4. So it's truly a plug and play and doesn't throw any codes or need any additional tuning? Is that how their previous units have worked on previous gen M5's?

The G90 needs more power said nobody, ever.

A few comments on this:

1. My F10 M5, which I bought used, underwent a pre-purchase inspection at a BMW dealer.
When they plugged it in, it immediately showed ‘Tune Detected’.

Having purchased the car, I had it reset to stock (by BMW) and the latest Firmware/Software flashed on to the various ECUs.

It was rescanned.

Result: ‘Tune detected’, still present!!!

On this…

a) I would be amazed if BMW honoured any mechanical & electrical warranty if a vehicle came in showing such a result.

b) We do not know how BMW detects tunes. But, any recent BMW owner will attest that the vehicle is well and truly hooked-up to BMW’s cloud.
My wife’s 730d sent data to BMW to advise that the coolant had been topped-up once too often and it automatically initiated a recall procedure.
Don’t assume they can’t remotely tell 500 separate metrics about engine operating parameters.

c) I accept that this is a plug n’play setup and is different to flashing the ECU but it results in altered performance metrics /pressures etc. Modern vehicles are cloud-connected computers… don’t kid yourself that BMW engineers can’t interrogate the data and/or have exception reports triggered when given thresholds are exceeded.

d) It’s almost certain that your motor-insurer asks if the vehicle is stock, either directly or in the small print states that it is a condition of cover that your vehicle is not modified in any way.
If you BS them and you pile the vehicle into a school bus, your wrecked car will be towed to a compound where a skilled assessor may inspect it.
If the gear is spotted or detected -your cover is void.

Bottom line, in my humble opinion, you’d be mental to tune an expensive vehicle like this, which already has enough power to shred everyones’ licence and risk warranty & insurance peril.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by ASAP

last i checked this was a forum to share opinions liked or not... otherwise the internet may not be the right place for such a forum...

only angle here is weight which will undoubtably hurt the cars performance in every way, thats not an opinion but a fact...

only sales will dictate this cars success... i will only say this... the m3 comp x still cannot be easily had 3 years later... i know of 2 m5 still sitting locally to me and other that have mentioned the same

Everybody here knows about the weight.

Everyone knows the car’s performance data after several real-world tests and it’s fine and faster than F90.

Everyone would prefer if it was 1500kg but it would cost Chiron money then.

BMW did what they did because of decisions by major powers that none of us can control.

That said, the G90 will cost the daily driver less in gas.

In my market, and this is not a typo, the M5 G90 will outsell the F90 in its opening month by 3000%. This is due to favourable taxation given the low CO2.

I realise that major change falls flat in a Trumpian USA where gas is 70c /litre but it’s an enormous big deal for those of us exposed to strict climate change laws.

So, is the G90 perfect, no. But it’s a hell of a lot more perfect than other full-ICE alternatives, like the RS6 that cost €60,000 more just ‘cause they’re ICE (outside the US).

So, that’s where I’m coming from. I’ve bought one and so have others here present and it’s not nice to have folk pissing on your parade, if you catch my drift!

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

Everybody here knows about the weight.

Everyone knows the car’s performance data after several real-world tests and it’s fine and faster than F90.

Everyone would prefer if it was 1500kg but it would cost Chiron money then.

BMW did what they did because of decisions by major powers that none of us can control.

That said, the G90 will cost the daily driver less in gas.

In my market, and this is not a typo, the M5 G90 will outsell the F90 in its opening month by 3000%. This is due to favourable taxation given the low CO2.

I realise that major change falls flat in a Trumpian USA where gas is 70c /litre but it’s an enormous big deal for those of us exposed to strict climate change laws.

So, is the G90 perfect, no. But it’s a hell of a lot more perfect than other full-ICE alternatives, like the RS6 that cost €60,000 more just ‘cause they’re ICE (outside the US).

So, that’s where I’m coming from. I’ve bought one and so have others here present and it’s not nice to have folk pissing on your parade, if you catch my drift!

I get your drift... do you get my drift when I say the USA is the largest M car market and it's not even close? Also the G90 is not faster off the line than the F90... i have not seen one launch well yet.

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

Bottom line, in my humble opinion, you’d be mental to tune an expensive vehicle like this, which already has enough power to shred everyones’ licence and risk warranty & insurance peril.

I’m not sure how BMW does it, but Audi uses a checksum to see how many times the ECU has been written to. They then compare that to the number on Audi’s servers to make sure they match. If no match then the car is flagged TD1.

For piggybacks it doesn’t affect this checksum, but if someone goes digging into the long term fuel trim tables they can see that there is much more fuel going into the engine than expected. Some cars also have strain/torque gauge in the transmission. If this is seeing a higher reading than what is expected for the circumstances, that might make someone look a little harder.

If you mod your car you need to plan for the warranty not covering drivetrain repairs. With an ECU tune, you’re almost certain to get denied. With a piggyback, you might not get denied. To be extra careful, it wouldn’t hurt to remove the piggy back and drive a few hundred miles before taking into service to reset adaptations.

I had a JB4 on my X5M and never had an issue with warranty (even got a new transfer case done), but that was 10 years ago. I’m sure BMW’s detection tools are much better now.

I can comfortably say though, that Burger Motorsports is incredibly well respected in the enthusiast community. They have a lot of very happy customers in both the VW/Audi world and the BMW world.

[Moewron]

Originally Posted by ASAP

only angle here is weight which will undoubtably hurt the cars performance in every way, thats not an opinion but a fact...

What you, and many others, don't seem to grasp is that the weight hurts performance in ways that don't really matter to people who are in the market for this car.

The extras this car has that are a result of that weight add to the car in ways that make it substantially more appealing to people who are in the market for this car.

Merely having an opinion doesn't mean that this is a place where you're entitled to share it, much less to share it and not get pushback on it. Coming to a forum for the G90/G99 and posting that it sucks is simply trolling.

If you want to express an opinion that other cars are better than the M5, go to the forums for those other cars and say, "The M5 is so much worse than this car." People won't give a shit about what you have to say there, either, but at least you'll be in like-minded company.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I get your drift... do you get my drift when I say the USA is the largest M car market and it's not even close? Also the G90 is not faster off the line than the F90... i have not seen one launch well yet.

The USA is not the largest M car ‘market’.
It’s the largest M car country.
The largest market is easily the European Union with 27 countries. It’s not an unfair comparison either. The USA is 50 separate states. (The EU is not far off a federation either in the eyes of some, but that’s another matter)

G90 seems to be doing 3.1 which is faster than the F90 M5 but not the CS. But, comparing to a limited-edition racer is unfair, no? (Source Joe Achilles & Throttle House)

It’s also shipping on rubbish Hankook tyres and not Michellins so maybe that’s not helping the numbers. It’ll be better when we see run-in cars with proper rubber.

I would add though… for me, I’ll never launch mine and wouldn’t buy, knowingly, one that had been. I remember when ‘launch control’ first arrived, on the E60 M5 and the drivetrain was shot after 13 of them.
I’m much more interested in how it performs in the real World, overtaking which is something you get to do a lot of, when off the motorways, on a twisty Irish backroad!

Exhibit A… see image!

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Moewron

What you, and many others, don't seem to grasp is that the weight hurts performance in ways that don't really matter to people who are in the market for this car.

The extras this car has that are a result of that weight add to the car in ways that make it substantially more appealing to people who are in the market for this car.

That's the first time I've ever read that in my entire life on a performance car forum... so i'll leave it at that.

Merely having an opinion doesn't mean that this is a place where you're entitled to share it, much less to share it and not get pushback on it. Coming to a forum for the G90/G99 and posting that it sucks is simply trolling.

If you want to express an opinion that other cars are better than the M5, go to the forums for those other cars and say, "The M5 is so much worse than this car." People won't give a shit about what you have to say there, either, but at least you'll be in like-minded company.

Who said the car sucks?... this isn't a pinto... all that has been said, is the car is underwhelming for coming out as a new gen significantly heavier and not a significantly better performer... interesting statement you made in your last sentence that will only be answered by sales of the car

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

The USA is not the largest M car ‘market’.
It’s the largest M car country.
The largest market is easily the European Union with 27 countries. It’s not an unfair comparison either. The USA is 50 separate states. (The EU is not far off a federation either in the eyes of some, but that’s another matter)

G90 seems to be doing 3.1 which is faster than the F90 M5 but not the CS. But, comparing to a limited-edition racer is unfair, no? (Source Joe Achilles & Throttle House)

It’s also shipping on rubbish Hankook tyres and not Michellins so maybe that’s not helping the numbers. It’ll be better when we see run-in cars with proper rubber.

I would add though… for me, I’ll never launch mine and wouldn’t buy, knowingly, one that had been. I remember when ‘launch control’ first arrived, on the E60 M5 and the drivetrain was shot after 13 of them.
I’m much more interested in how it performs in the real World, overtaking which is something you get to do a lot of, when off the motorways, on a twisty Irish backroad!

Exhibit A… see image!

so not sure where you get your numbers from... only Germany and the UK matter for all EU sales... everyone else is tiny... here are what the M3 / M4 predictions were initially -

That's not even aligning the fact that we never even got some models i.e. touring m3 that would have counted in your overall M numbers. Also M performance cars now count into total M sales divisions numbers which for you guys would include the M performance diesels that we do not get a single one of lol.

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1805295

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

I’m much more interested in how it performs in the real World, overtaking which is something you get to do a lot of, when off the motorways, on a twisty Irish backroad!

Off topic, but as I visit Ireland often to visit family (and just cause it's so damned gorgeous) I have to look at that pic and tip my hat to you. That's some serious boldness you got driving a car the size of an M5 on those tiny Irish twisties. I remember driving down a boreen in a rented 3 series and nearly hitting the ditches when something came the opposite way!

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by Bluex

Off topic, but as I visit Ireland often to visit family (and just cause it's so damned gorgeous) I have to look at that pic and tip my hat to you. That's some serious boldness you got driving a car the size of an M5 on those tiny Irish twisties. I remember driving down a boreen in a rented 3 series and nearly hitting the ditches when something came the opposite way!

(Apologies for topic slippage here!)

Lol… to be honest, it’s far easier than driving on I—95 & other US freeways when there’s maintenance going on and those concrete dividers are layed down, narrowing the lanes yet everyone’s still pushing.
The trick is being familiar with driving on the left, for starters. After that, a tiny population in a place the size of Indiana makes for quiet rural roads.
Stick the right hand side tyres over the line and keep eyes on road ahead for oncoming traffic and you’re golden.
You can meet lots of agricultural tractors though, particularly in Summer so you have to stay focussed, cautious and not be bouncing your M off the red line!
If you can up the rental budget to something potent, do give the Mitchelstown to Caherconlish road a try when you’re next over, it was built for ‘M’ (about a 1000yrs ago!) 🤣

Mitchelstown to Caherconlish route

As an aside, we were over in Nevada recently and took a pair of Huracans out on the Valley of Fire Highway and it was jammed with traffic. Very frustrating!

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

(Apologies for topic slippage here!)

Lol… to be honest, it’s far easier than driving on I—95 & other US freeways when there’s maintenance going on and those concrete dividers are layed down, narrowing the lanes yet everyone’s still pushing.

Last off topic comment lol.....yeah, my experience is different! I've driven my last M in Germany and separately have driven in Switzerland and Italy and I still find Ireland to be the most challenging. After my European Delivery, I found driving on I95 to be a breeze. All US lanes are so much wider and luxurious. I did get used to driving on the opposite side in Ireland pretty quickly and driving approaching Dublin was much easier. Driving IN Dublin is another thing altogether, but that's typical city driving...it can be challenging no matter where you are. Although I found Munich to be pretty easy and Dublin far less so. The boreens I mentioned before were local to a town in Cork called Dromagh (one area where I have family) and lol....those were quite hairy at times.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by ASAP

so not sure where you get your numbers from... only Germany and the UK matter for all EU sales... everyone else is tiny... here are what the M3 / M4 predictions were initially -

That's not even aligning the fact that we never even got some models i.e. touring m3 that would have counted in your overall M numbers. Also M performance cars now count into total M sales divisions numbers which for you guys would include the M performance diesels that we do not get a single one of lol.

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1805295

Your source data is for G8x models only.

And you didn’t get the Touring models because not enough of them would be sold there to justify the cost…

Anywho, nobody’s doubting the value of the American car market. But whether or not it remains so for M is a question for Mr D Trump and his desire to start a trade war with everyone!

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

Your source data is for G8x models only.

And you didn’t get the Touring models because not enough of them would be sold there to justify the cost…

Anywho, nobody’s doubting the value of the American car market. But whether or not it remains so for M is a question for Mr D Trump and his desire to start a trade war with everyone!

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/maga...lume-2023.html

it rings true for BMW M across the board... again, the EU is not the #1 region... it has a ton to do with emissions and the fact that these cars are far more accessible to us from a price point... the X3M and X5M are made here and we are SUV volume kinds so we are #1 there... M5? yes, def a ton of TT V8s running around in the EU lol... also we do not care about practicality like the rest of the world so we don't look at boot space nor MPGs... are you referring to some other mythical m cars? also, I would warn you, politics of any sort are not allowed on this forum.

[FSHNGRY]

Not a fan of tunes. I would be cautious for a car thats barely hit the road yet. Just my .02

My piggy back Carbahn was one of the final pieces and Chris and Steve Dinan telling me that the warranty cost long with it would cover a new engine should any major damage happen made me pull the trigger.

I had BM3 on my F82 M4, and although it was a major difference - it also MAJORLY aged the car faster than expected.

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i am curious how this aircraft carrier will stop with another 100 whp... people truly forget this thing weighs 5500 lbs

It’s ok. We have you in every g90 thread to remind everyone.

[Cannondale900]

To each their own but I get my kicks on track. Neither my current RS6, nor the M5 (I used to track my E34 M5), is well suited for this (and neither is the MB or Porsche referenced elsewhere in this thread). These are all heavy cars and will eat tires and brakes for lunch if tracked frequently.

I have an M2C that is Carbahn tuned. This car is reasonably priced, has reasonably priced parts, and is reasonable to work on. It is much more fun to track this type of car.

I was never once tempted to tune my RS6, which would trigger a TD1 flag, which would likely result in warrant claim denials. It's already way too fast for the street.....why does it need to be faster? The packaging of components on these modern cars is so tight and complicated that it requires dropping the front subframe and engine assembly for many jobs. I just have no interest in putting my hard earned money toward that type of expense.....I'd rather spread it around the 8 other dumb cars that I own and maintain.