[afadeev]

Originally Posted by starlights

Now researching the prep steps and wondering if Iron remover is a necessary step.

It isn't.
Prepping for cermaic coating (aka liquid polymer, aka thin layer of transparent plastic) application is no different than prepping for waxing the car. You want to clean the surfaces first. Otherwise, you will just scratch the paint as you apply wax/ceramic coat on top of dirt.

If you can clean the paint without Iron remover, than you don't need it.
I do find Iron removers very helpful for cleaning the wheels and the lower sections of the doors and fenders. But those can also be cleaned with other chemicals.
I also ceramic coated my wheels for subsequent ease of washing and maintenance.

Originally Posted by starlights

I suspect that since my car is always garaged, any of these name brand ceramics will outlast my ownership of the vehicle.

You are probably right.

a

[aktif8]

Originally Posted by starlights

Thanks all. Looking at GYEON MOHS EVO. Is that considered top tier for DIY ceramics? Will likely apply two coats.

I will be doing a one or two stage paint correction as required prior to applying ceramic.

I went with mohs Evo after doing a pro 3 stage correction. I normally diy, but my car needed some pretty aggressive swirl removal.

I went diy on the coating - it was trivially easy. Couldn't recommend it more highly - it is an absolute no brainer. Almost impossible to screw up. Looks terrific. I did an initial application of Cure right after the coating - I've been maintaining with d3fy.

[NSXR]

The big thing with ceramic coating (that hasn't been mentioned) is that you don't want to get it wet within 2 weeks (3 weeks in the Winter) of application because the water will break the bonds, causing it to not cure properly and as a result, wear off much more quickly.

[starlights]

Originally Posted by NSXR

The big thing with ceramic coating (that hasn't been mentioned) is that you don't want to get it wet within 2 weeks (3 weeks in the Winter) of application because the water will break the bonds, causing it to not cure properly and as a result, wear off much more quickly.

Thanks! I will be mindful of that. The car is normally garaged so hopefully won't be difficult.

[starlights]

Considering that the car currently has wax on it, what's the recommended order in decon/correction process?

Wash > Iron R > Wash > Clay > Paint Correction > Wash > Surface Cleanser/Prep Spray > Ceramic coat. Is this correct or does it have too many washes?

For washes, I plan to do rinse less using ONR - is that an issue?

[bosstones]

Originally Posted by starlights

Considering that the car currently has wax on it, what's the recommended order in decon/correction process?

Wash > Iron R > Wash > Clay > Paint Correction > Wash > Surface Cleanser/Prep Spray > Ceramic coat. Is this correct or does it have too many washes?

For washes, I plan to do rinse less using ONR - is that an issue?

I think you can skip the wash after the iron remover so long as you rinse well but others might disagree.

I wouldn't use ONR and definitely not for the final wash. Not sure if it has been confirmed but I've read enough speculation about it leaving a polymer film behind. I'd stick with a regular wash; obviously something that is not a wash/wax, wash/SiO2, etc... combo.

re: wax, there are washes that help strip a wax coat as part of a wash. A combo of that plus the paint correction would do the deed. Some might say paint correction alone (assuming some degree of polish) should he fine. If it were me, I'd leave nothing to chance.

[bosstones]

Originally Posted by starlights

PS - nice images on your flicker! I shot extensively as a pro until a few years ago

Thanks! I haven't posted or even logged into my flickr in a long time! I can definitely tell a progression from my older stuff to the later stuff, both from pix in general but also how I did any post-processing. Sadly, I don't get out much anymore, at most a side excursion if I'm on business travel.

Off topic but I'd love to see some of your work. The photography sub-forum isn't very active anymore but that'd be the place to post'em. Then again, this is your thread so you could hijack it any which way you wanted.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by NSXR

The big thing with ceramic coating (that hasn't been mentioned) is that you don't want to get it wet within 2 weeks (3 weeks in the Winter) of application because the water will break the bonds, causing it to not cure properly and as a result, wear off much more quickly.

That's doesn't sound right.
Many coatings warn against washing the car with strong detergents for first 1-2 weeks, but rain exposure after 24 hours is usually perfectly fine.

Of the onese I used, the following trend emerges:

• Adams - Fully cure for 24 hours, free from water, elements, or weathering.
• McKeys Graphene Pro-Coat 2.0 - Avoid exposing the vehicle to moisture for 6 hours. We have revised our curing time from 24 to 6 hours!
• Gyeon Mohs Evo - Let coating dry for 12h before using the vehicle. Cure for 24 hours.
  [**] Recommended application temperature is between 59F to 77F. Do not apply in direct sunlight.

Originally Posted by starlights

Considering that the car currently has wax on it, what's the recommended order in decon/correction process?

Wash > Iron R > Wash > Clay > Paint Correction > Wash > Surface Cleanser/Prep Spray > Ceramic coat. Is this correct or does it have too many washes?

If the car is clean, most car shampoos with mid-high pH level (acidic) will strip wax layer. If unsure about what shampoo to use, Dawn dish soap will work as strip shampoo for certain. Add a few drops to whatever you were going to use, or use Strip Wash if you want to be fancy.
If anything was missed, Claying will get the wax remnants for sure.

Typical Directions:

1. Chemically and mechanically decontaminate the paint. By whatever means necessary, ending with a rinse/wash.
2. Before applying the coating, wipe the vehicle down with Coating Prep Spray (each coating brand has their own). Usually, this is just diluted alcohol.
3. Once the surface has been properly prepped, apply the coating one panel at a time. Apply side-to-side, and then up-and-down in cross-hatch pattern.
4. Once you finish coating, level excess product using a microfiber towel. Use short, firm strokes when buffing off excess. Flip your towel often.
5. Avoid exposing the vehicle to moisture for 6-24 hours (read specific coating instructions).

a

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by afadeev

That's doesn't sound right.

Ceramic coating takes 2 to 3 weeks to fully cure (depending on several factors), and depending on which website you read you'll find different answers as to how long you should wait to expose it to any type of moister. Every installer should explain that water exposure within this period will absolutely shorten the life of the coating to varying degrees. This is literally the main reason why people have different outcomes with ceramic coating life.

[s_ribs]

Originally Posted by starlights

Thanks all, your responses have been very helpful with providing me options to research. For now, after a lot of you tube video comparisons (with a grain of salt at some) I am zeroing in on MOHS Evo. This video was helpful between my final two contenders :

You just found one of the best and most trusted resources for car care products. Mike G knows his stuff!

Check out his recent video for the best coatings. CarPro CQuartz UK 3.0 is still one of his favorites and is on par (maybe slightly better?) than Gyeon MOHS.

A little more $ but check out Armour Detail Supply. Their Quartz coating is one of Mike's favorites and I look forward to applying the bottle I just purchased later this Spring. I've heard it may not be the best for your first time applying a coating though. FWIW

[starlights]

Originally Posted by afadeev

There are dozens of Ceramic coatings (avoid spray!) that claim 1+ years of durability. And there are dozens more entering the market every year.
Frankly, I haven't see any 3rd party tests to validate ANY of those cliaims.

This YouTuber is runnig a Ceramic coastings real-world test on 35 coatings, and is 6-months into the trial:

Longevity claims are highly questionable since they don't take into account your climate (AZ or AK - big difference) and how well you maintain your car (automatic car washes, or wash by hand?).

Personally, I've had 1+ years of durability with the following (in order of application, not peference):

• Adams Ceramic (was a PITA to level)
• Adams Graphene (easier)
• Gyeon's Mohs Evo (easiest)
• Mckees 37 Graphene Max (easy, and it sheets water off more than it beads -> fewer water spots!)

So far, all four are holding up perfectly fine.
Water spotting is an annoyance, unless you run out to blow the water off the surfaces with a leaf blower after the rain.

Glass coatings, on the other hand, are still an ongoing challenge.
I haven't found anything that lasts more than 6 months in real life before chattering kicks in!

HTH,
a

Thanks! I have been watching a lot of comparison videos, discarding those that may be paid commercials masquerading as reviews . Your bolded statement made me research some more and while initially I was drawn towards beading since that's what I am used to with waxes I currently use, sheeting makes more sense since that appears to be a sign of lower surface tension and attraction. I am still researching since I do have a couple of months until spring but I appreciate your pointer above. From one of the reviews that I linked in one of my post, I was ready to move past CSL because it was a sheeting coating - I think I will take a second look at it now. Will also try to find comparative reviews if I can, between different sheeting ceramics.

Apart from above, I have 2 additional questions for anyone who can help.

1. What's the real world difference between Graphene and Ceramic coatings?

2. Can these coatings be applied to glass and plastic (such as exposed plastic bumper or other black plastic parts). If yes, will it wear off faster from glass due to wiper use?

Thanks again all - please keep sharing your knowledge!!

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by NSXR

Ceramic coating takes 2 to 3 weeks to fully cure (depending on several factors), and depending on which website you read you'll find different answers as to how long you should wait to expose it to any type of moister.

OK, can you site ANY sources to substantiate your 2-3 weeks no-water exposure claim?
That insistance is highly impractical and bordering on absurd.

Here is the video by DIY Detail team addressing the subject matter:

Originally Posted by starlights

1. What's the real world difference between Graphene and Ceramic coatings?

Definitely - marketing hype and premium pricing on Graphene labeled products!
Possibly - increased longivity, but all longevity claims are unproven, highly suspect, and impractical.

For example, any product that claims 5-10 year protection is fibbing, as none have been on the market that long. More importantly, your car's paint will pickup swirls and scratches in the course of a year, never mind 5-10 years. You will want to go back in and polish those out, and then re-coat the area. So what good is a 5-10 year longevity claim if every panel on your car will have been re-coated by then many times over?

Same goes for any coating (consumer or pro) 5-10 year "warranties" - all of those are worthless if you read the fine print!

Originally Posted by starlights

2. Can these coatings be applied to glass and plastic (such as exposed plastic bumper or other black plastic parts). If yes, will it wear off faster from glass due to wiper use?

Yes, and yes.
Cross material application and longevity are two biggest advantages of ceramic/graphene coatings vs. wax. You no longer have to mask rubber parts off before waxing, or work to remove wax overflow - I just ceramic/graphene coat over all surfaces with no white hazing or discloration on rubber and plastic.

Some plastic and chrome trims fade over time, so you may want to first polish those out with appropriet restoring products, or apply black dies to black plastic first. Then allow those to dry before ceramic-coating over everything!

Glass it the MOST troubleshome area because it gets constant scrubbing from the wiper blades.
I've tried more glass ceramic/graphene/nano/whatever coatings than those for any other surface (Adams (multiple versions), Gyeon, Griots (multiple versions), Stoner, RainX, and others I'm forgetting right now). None lasted more than 6 months. Some decay gracefully, some induce massive wiper skip/chatter and require some form of intervention after 1-3 months, but all wear off WAY before the promised longevity benchmark. I've even tried ceramic coating the wiper blades together with glass - same outcome.

Coatings applied on other areas of the glass (rear, roof, sides) do last much longer than RainX (old benchmark). But the wipers destroy ALL windshield coatings in <6 months.
At this point, I'm not sure anything lasts longer than RainX + RainX topper in the winshield washer fluid!

HTH,
a

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by afadeev

OK, can you site ANY sources to substantiate your 2-3 weeks no-water exposure claim?
That insistance is highly impractical and bordering on absurd.

I've actually done quite a bit of research on it, and don't find it absurd at all.

This link explains the curing process in basic detail, and how it depends on several factors: https://www.feynlab.com/how-long-doe...4sZrIlNTkUDWzx

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by NSXR

I've actually done quite a bit of research on it, and don't find it absurd at all.

This link explains the curing process in basic detail, and how it depends on several factors: https://www.feynlab.com/how-long-doe...4sZrIlNTkUDWzx

I've followed your link and read the materials on the Feynlab web site. I did not find any claims that all ceramic coatings require minimum of 2-3 weeks cure time before exposure to the elements. If anything, they follow the same claims in the above video by Yvan Lacroix (co-founder of DIYDetail) that ceramic coating cure follows two stages:
1). Initial cure when exterior surface hardens and car becomes safe to drive. DIY and other vendors say that takes 1-4 hours. Your vendor (Feynlab) claims their product takes 24-48 hours.
2). Full cure with chemical cross linking between coating and paint. Feynlab claims this take "several days to a few weeks". Other coatings disclose 6-24 cure times.

Finally, the punchline message from Feynlab site is very apropos:
"Follow the manufacturer’s recommended curing times and application instructions."

I totally agree with the above, and nothing on Feynlab's web site would make me want to go against the earlier cited cure times from DIY, Adams, Gyeon and McKeys (6-24 hours before road ready).

HTH,
a

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by afadeev

I've followed your link and read the materials on the Feynlab web site.

The link was just a basic description of the process.

[starlights]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Definitely - marketing hype and premium pricing on Graphene labeled products!
Possibly - increased longivity, but all longevity claims are unproven, highly suspect, and impractical.

For example, any product that claims 5-10 year protection is fibbing, as none have been on the market that long. More importantly, your car's paint will pickup swirls and scratches in the course of a year, never mind 5-10 years. You will want to go back in and polish those out, and then re-coat the area. So what good is a 5-10 year longevity claim if every panel on your car will have been re-coated by then many times over?

Same goes for any coating (consumer or pro) 5-10 year "warranties" - all of those are worthless if you read the fine print!



Yes, and yes.
Cross material application and longevity are two biggest advantages of ceramic/graphene coatings vs. wax. You no longer have to mask rubber parts off before waxing, or work to remove wax overflow - I just ceramic/graphene coat over all surfaces with no white hazing or discloration on rubber and plastic.

Some plastic and chrome trims fade over time, so you may want to first polish those out with appropriet restoring products, or apply black dies to black plastic first. Then allow those to dry before ceramic-coating over everything!

Glass it the MOST troubleshome area because it gets constant scrubbing from the wiper blades.
I've tried more glass ceramic/graphene/nano/whatever coatings than those for any other surface (Adams (multiple versions), Gyeon, Griots (multiple versions), Stoner, RainX, and others I'm forgetting right now). None lasted more than 6 months. Some decay gracefully, some induce massive wiper skip/chatter and require some form of intervention after 1-3 months, but all wear off WAY before the promised longevity benchmark. I've even tried ceramic coating the wiper blades together with glass - same outcome.

Coatings applied on other areas of the glass (rear, roof, sides) do last much longer than RainX (old benchmark). But the wipers destroy ALL windshield coatings in <6 months.
At this point, I'm not sure anything lasts longer than RainX + RainX topper in the winshield washer fluid!

HTH,
a

Thank you for all your detailed responses thus far

I think I am settled on Mohs Evo and will apply a top layer of Gliss on that at some point. Now the wait begins for the weather to warm up to 60s - we are in the 20s at the moment, so I decided to add some more garage lighting in the meanwhile in preparation for the time for coating!