[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Levi

Amazing you don't drive Toyota. Selling 10 million vehicles in 12 months, shows they really know very well what the customer wants. Yet those so called "enthusiasts" always keep yelling for a new Supra.



Exactly. That is why Toyota doesn't build Supra anymore. Look how much money they make, more than any other car company in the world.

But the Supra is coming back because they have the resources to do it right.

[Chihuahua]

"Hey Norbert, guess what: most drivers of 1 series cars THINK they are FWD!!!"

"Really? Well we have MINI, let's just build a BMW version. It's cheaper for us and we can profit more. It can't possibly perform as well as a RWD counterpart, but we already have people fooled so lets go for the money."

"But Norbert, BMW has never embraced FWD. In fact, we have publicly derided it many times. The foundation of our business has always been RWD cars. This could potentially damage our brand's image."

"This doesn't matter. NONE of this matters. Because profits."

Sorry, but the 2 series Active-Tourer is the High Fructose Corn Syrup of the automotive industry.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Levi

Amazing you don't drive Toyota. Selling 10 million vehicles in 12 months, shows they really know very well what the customer wants. Yet those so called "enthusiasts" always keep yelling for a new Supra.

Exactly. That is why Toyota doesn't build Supra anymore. Look how much money they make, more than any other car company in the world.

The difference clearly is that one company IS building sports cars and the other has not for over a decade. You are gonna need a lot better analogy.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Kyle B

"Hey Norbert, guess what: most drivers of 1 series cars THINK they are FWD!!!"

"Really? Well we have MINI, let's just build a BMW version. It's cheaper for us and we can profit more. It can't possibly perform as well as a RWD counterpart, but we already have people fooled so lets go for the money."

"But Norbert, BMW has never embraced FWD. In fact, we have publicly derided it many times. The foundation of our business has always been RWD cars. This could potentially damage our brand's image."

"This doesn't matter. NONE of this matters. Because profits."

Sorry, but the 2 series Active-Tourer is the High Fructose Corn Syrup of the automotive industry.

Did you know BMW used to also deride forced induction engines as a "low tech" way of producing power?

Would you say that adding turbocharged engines to the line up has damaged the brand's image? Funny thing is, when they did start putting them in, the "diehards" made similar claims.

Would you say that making M versions of SUV's damaged the brand's image? This was also previously derided. If you do think it's damaged the brand's image, there's nothing quantifiable that would prove your claim as BMW sells those things hand over foot at not so affordable prices.

All of these arguments are hilariously childish and ridiculous. Has anyone ever said "I was this close to putting down a deposit on a Porsche 911 but backed out at the 11th hour...I didn't realize Porsche also builds an SUV, so I can't buy from them".

If BMW wanted to build a lawn mower I wouldn't care. So long as they build something I want and like, I'll buy it.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Did you know BMW used to also deride forced induction engines as a "low tech" way of producing power?

Yes. Have been driving BMW since the mid 90s, when there was no such thing as HPFP failures and a roadside breakdown could be alleviated with the trunk mounted tool kit.

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Would you say that adding turbocharged engines to the line up has damaged the brand's image?

Yes. It certainly has affected long-term reliability and repair costs IMO. BMWs used to have the reputation of being built 'like tanks'. What's the reputation now? When service advisors are telling owners things like 'don't own this car out of warranty', there's a problem. I've had that said to me more than once. Did turbocharging make things better or worse?

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Would you say that making M versions of SUV's damaged the brand's image?

Oh hell yea. Those things are idiotic. Soooooo idiotic.

Originally Posted by fecurtis

If BMW wanted to build a lawn mower I wouldn't care. So long as they build something I want and like, I'll buy it.

Enjoy your purchase.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Kyle B

Yes. Have been driving BMW since the mid 90s, when there was no such thing as HPFP failures and a roadside breakdown could be alleviated with the trunk mounted tool kit.

Ah yes, the imaginary unicorn scenario where BMW's "back in the day" were bulletproof and were well known for their stellar reliability (they weren't but whatever makes you feel better and justifies your old man "in my day" nonsense that no one cares about).

Yes. It certainly has affected long-term reliability and repair costs IMO. BMWs used to have the reputation of being built 'like tanks'. What's the reputation now? When service advisors are telling owners things like 'don't own this car out of warranty', there's a problem. I've had that said to me more than once. Did turbocharging make things better or worse?

I wanted to stop at "IMO" but I kept going. Figures I find more imaginary nonsense where you actually think BMW's were once known for being indestructible. They aren't Toyotas. BMW's were always known for expensive repairs out of warranty, this is nothing new. Again, these aren't Toyotas.

Oh hell yea. Those things are idiotic. Soooooo idiotic.

Agreed, but many people think otherwise, since BMW sells many of them at hefty margins. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

This is the only forum I've been on where people use other cars that a manufacturer builds to justify not buying from that brand anymore. I don't like an X4, doesn't mean I wouldn't buy an M3 in spite of it.

Such a juvenile attitude around these forums. So many people want to stroke their egos and wax philosophical about "brand image" and how you think it'll be damaged and therefore people won't look at your car in the same light anymore. For starters, practically nobody cares what kind of car you drive nor do they care to make long drawn conclusions about you based solely on the car you drive and those that do are shallow and not worth a damn anyway.

If it bothers you that much sell your BMW amd buy a Porsche, who now makes high performance SUV's as well (which also sell exceptionally well) or buy an Audi (who now builds a car which is essentially a Jetta, which also sells exceptionally well), or buy a Mercedes (which now builds a FWD car after a long standing philosophy of building RWD based cars...that car also sells exceptionally well).

Times change, markets expand, but clearly you know something all of those manufacturers don't know. You should share with them your stellar business plan and if they decide to stop counting the large increase in sales numbers and profits, maybe they'll listen to what you have to say.

You remind me of those people who think Cadillac lost its way once they stopped calling cars the Fleetwood. People with your sort of mindset are those who resist change and innovation so luckily no one in a position to actually make decisions listens to people like you otherwise we'd all be stuck driving NA I6's that are over 20 years old and with no navi or bluetooth, because those things are distractions that take away from the thrill of driving (or whatever people like you complained about when manufacturers started offering them).

[marcva]

As the owner of an s52 model who drove the hell out of an m50 model for 230k mi including track and autocross time, with little incident to the motor, I have to think about the consequences if owning a new turbo model for over 100k. There are incremental maintenance requirements that need to be accounted for.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Ah yes, the imaginary unicorn scenario where BMW's "back in the day" were bulletproof and were well known for their stellar reliability (they weren't but whatever makes you feel better and justifies your old man "in my day" nonsense that no one cares about).



I wanted to stop at "IMO" but I kept going. Figures I find more imaginary nonsense where you actually think BMW's were once known for being indestructible. They aren't Toyotas. BMW's were always known for expensive repairs out of warranty, this is nothing new. Again, these aren't Toyotas.



Agreed, but many people think otherwise, since BMW sells many of them at hefty margins. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

This is the only forum I've been on where people use other cars that a manufacturer builds to justify not buying from that brand anymore. I don't like an X4, doesn't mean I wouldn't buy an M3 in spite of it.

Such a juvenile attitude around these forums. So many people want to stroke their egos and wax philosophical about "brand image" and how you think it'll be damaged and therefore people won't look at your car in the same light anymore. For starters, practically nobody cares what kind of car you drive nor do they care to make long drawn conclusions about you based solely on the car you drive and those that do are shallow and not worth a damn anyway.

If it bothers you that much sell your BMW amd buy a Porsche, who now makes high performance SUV's as well (which also sell exceptionally well) or buy an Audi (who now builds a car which is essentially a Jetta, which also sells exceptionally well), or buy a Mercedes (which now builds a FWD car after a long standing philosophy of building RWD based cars...that car also sells exceptionally well).

Times change, markets expand, but clearly you know something all of those manufacturers don't know. You should share with them your stellar business plan and if they decide to stop counting the large increase in sales numbers and profits, maybe they'll listen to what you have to say.

You remind me of those people who think Cadillac lost its way once they stopped calling cars the Fleetwood. People with your sort of mindset are those who resist change and innovation so luckily no one in a position to actually make decisions listens to people like you otherwise we'd all be stuck driving NA I6's that are over 20 years old and with no navi or bluetooth, because those things are distractions that take away from the thrill of driving (or whatever people like you complained about when manufacturers started offering them).

Got it. You're right, I'm wrong - I think that's what you were going for, no?

I see you live in Arlington. You should run for congress; you'd fit right in.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Kyle B

Got it. You're right, I'm wrong - I think that's what you were going for, no?

I see you live in Arlington. You should run for congress; you'd fit right in.

Congress wouldn't be a bad gig. Get paid decent money for pretty much doing nothing.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Congress wouldn't be a bad gig. Get paid decent money for pretty much doing nothing.

Yep. All you'd need to do is serve one or two terms as a state senator. Make big bank, and keep all of your perks until the day you take the dirt nap. You can make the worst decisions imaginable, get paid, and have no accountability. God bless America.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

It is all about the forthcoming split in priorities .

The sportier models of the 2er - Coupe , Cabrio and Gran Coupe are expected to be RWD
Whilst the practical models 1er , X1 , X1L , X2 , Active/Gran Tourer and the Gran Turismo will be FWD/xDrive.

The MINI IV will be a C - Segment car aligned with the BMW 1er Sporthatch.
The first FWD BMW 1er will be offered as a 3dr and 5dr aswell as a four door.
MINI are also considering a sedan model.

The BMW 2er Gran Turismo provides extra practicality in a sleeker , sportier coupe shape and provides continuity to the 3er and 5er GT models which will see replacements.

The BMW 2er Coupe , Cabrio and Gran Coupe are expected to be RWD biased

The BMW Z1 Roadster and Z2 Coupe are FWD biased and aligned with the new MINI sports car in Coupe and Roadster derived from the Superleggera Concept Car.

The BMW X1 aligns with the MINI Countryman but the exclusivity of the extended wheelbase X1 will not carry over to MINI.

The MINI PACEMAN continues but aligns with the BMW X2 (Sales of the just-launched X4 are on fire and are not even at 6 months on the market yet)
The X2 will remain as a Sport Activity Coupe with the PACEMAN similar to today's car with dynamic roofline and rising glasshouse. The big change is the PACEMAN now receives 5drs but the handles are recessed into the rear pillars allowing a flush coupe like appearance.

The BMW 2er Active Tourer/Gran Tourer and MINI Clubman allow practicality and will be available with xDrive and All4. The Gran Tourer will premiere in Geneva in March 2015 with the MINI Clubman in Frankfurt the following September.

You might have noticed that the MINI IV now becomes a C-Segment car. But it is all part of the strategy to expand MINI into another segment allowing the available space for a sub-city small car concept as initially previewed by the MINI Rocketman Concept car. Although it will use ideas from the concept its execution will be somewhat different.

The difficulty is in finding a suitable architecture for the car as both UKL and the CFRP architecture showcased on the initial concept are not suitable and expensive on such a small car. New architecture has been sought and is currently in discussion to develop a suitable structure that is suitable and also allow electrification as well as chassis modifications for inevitable Cooper S models. We won't see results until near the end of the decade but the sub-city MINI should be in place around the launch of the MINI IV.

Its the grand plan to increase sales and take advantage of the continuous growth of the compact segment across the global spectrum.

The crowning result will be the all-electric BMWi1 city car expected at the turn of the decade. Built and developed using the BMWi philosophy.
This vehicle will owe much to the initial Rocketman concept but is not viable for use in a MINI.

Been waiting for this!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by marcva

As the owner of an s52 model who drove the hell out of an m50 model for 230k mi including track and autocross time, with little incident to the motor, I have to think about the consequences if owning a new turbo model for over 100k. There are incremental maintenance requirements that need to be accounted for.

no different than say... rebuilding VANOS..

See the progression?

Timing chain replacement - E30, E28, etc
Vanos Rebuild E36, E46 ? Etc
Turbo replacement
next up... meth system retooling

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Ah yes, the imaginary unicorn scenario where BMW's "back in the day" were bulletproof and were well known for their stellar reliability (they weren't but whatever makes you feel better and justifies your old man "in my day" nonsense that no one cares about).



I wanted to stop at "IMO" but I kept going. Figures I find more imaginary nonsense where you actually think BMW's were once known for being indestructible. They aren't Toyotas. BMW's were always known for expensive repairs out of warranty, this is nothing new. Again, these aren't Toyotas.



Agreed, but many people think otherwise, since BMW sells many of them at hefty margins. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

This is the only forum I've been on where people use other cars that a manufacturer builds to justify not buying from that brand anymore. I don't like an X4, doesn't mean I wouldn't buy an M3 in spite of it.

Such a juvenile attitude around these forums. So many people want to stroke their egos and wax philosophical about "brand image" and how you think it'll be damaged and therefore people won't look at your car in the same light anymore. For starters, practically nobody cares what kind of car you drive nor do they care to make long drawn conclusions about you based solely on the car you drive and those that do are shallow and not worth a damn anyway.

If it bothers you that much sell your BMW amd buy a Porsche, who now makes high performance SUV's as well (which also sell exceptionally well) or buy an Audi (who now builds a car which is essentially a Jetta, which also sells exceptionally well), or buy a Mercedes (which now builds a FWD car after a long standing philosophy of building RWD based cars...that car also sells exceptionally well).

Times change, markets expand, but clearly you know something all of those manufacturers don't know. You should share with them your stellar business plan and if they decide to stop counting the large increase in sales numbers and profits, maybe they'll listen to what you have to say.

You remind me of those people who think Cadillac lost its way once they stopped calling cars the Fleetwood. People with your sort of mindset are those who resist change and innovation so luckily no one in a position to actually make decisions listens to people like you otherwise we'd all be stuck driving NA I6's that are over 20 years old and with no navi or bluetooth, because those things are distractions that take away from the thrill of driving (or whatever people like you complained about when manufacturers started offering them).

Originally Posted by Kyle B

Got it. You're right, I'm wrong -
.

not that you would ever admit it..