[MoreCowbell]

Not Yet...

Considering a Dell after Vista is released. I don't think I want to deal with changing my OS after I've been using the computer.

[JamieA]

Good idea.

If you do surcumb, get the best one possible. Apparently Vista will not do it's whole thang unless your machine meets certain benchmarks, like a 1.8Gb/second memory access rate!

I think a CoreDuo machine will be safe, and very very fast. Rule of thumb is to always buy the best machine you can afford.

If you are feeling adventurous, I did switch to Mac after PC for many years (though have always loved Macs and had them during uni) and I have never looked back.

I am currently running an XP virtual machine that runs concurrently with Mac OS X so I have the best of all worlds... check out this video of a mac running Windows, OS X, Linux and Plan 9 all at the same time!

In defence of staying with a PC though, Office is not so great on an Intel Mac because they don't have a native binary for it yet, and so it runs on my new CoreDuo laptop at the speed of my old PowerBook G4

[MoreCowbell]

What would you say the advantages of the MAC are over Windows?

[tl_boy]

awesome dude, thats so cool. I"m aware of what you're talking about, the EPP? Employee purchase program?

Guys, IBM Thinkpads are THE BEST laptops.

When i'm in the market, i'll give you a shout out. (just recently bought a dell 6000 though, so may be a while).

Originally Posted by Cory1000

I work for IBM, if you look at the IBM website and see anything that you want, ill let you know what I could get it for then I can send you a referal link so you can order yourself with my discount...PM if you would like more info..

[tl_boy]

i disagree to buying the best machine you can afford. depreciation is major in computer parts. you can buy the best technology today and 3 months down the line you will see the price drop like anything.

imho, buy above average technology, not 10/10 but 8/10. You will benefit from the depreciation hit, without compromising on quality (unless there is a new revolutionary product out, like when the pentium chip was introduced against the 486 DX2s, yes, there was a HUGE difference in technology).

basically, i think look for a machine with good bus speed, like 800, and fast memory. and a faster internet connection. And dual processors aren't always quicker - doesn't the program have to be multi-threaded to benefit from dual processors???

Originally Posted by JamieA

Good idea.

If you do surcumb, get the best one possible. Apparently Vista will not do it's whole thang unless your machine meets certain benchmarks, like a 1.8Gb/second memory access rate!

I think a CoreDuo machine will be safe, and very very fast. Rule of thumb is to always buy the best machine you can afford.

If you are feeling adventurous, I did switch to Mac after PC for many years (though have always loved Macs and had them during uni) and I have never looked back.

I am currently running an XP virtual machine that runs concurrently with Mac OS X so I have the best of all worlds... check out this video of a mac running Windows, OS X, Linux and Plan 9 all at the same time!

In defence of staying with a PC though, Office is not so great on an Intel Mac because they don't have a native binary for it yet, and so it runs on my new CoreDuo laptop at the speed of my old PowerBook G4

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by tl_boy

i disagree to buying the best machine you can afford. depreciation is major in computer parts. you can buy the best technology today and 3 months down the line you will see the price drop like anything.

imho, buy above average technology, not 10/10 but 8/10. You will benefit from the depreciation hit, without compromising on quality (unless there is a new revolutionary product out, like when the pentium chip was introduced against the 486 DX2s, yes, there was a HUGE difference in technology).

basically, i think look for a machine with good bus speed, like 800, and fast memory. and a faster internet connection. And dual processors aren't always quicker - doesn't the program have to be multi-threaded to benefit from dual processors???

Just like cars, computers are always going to depreciate, you don't buy them to make or conserve money, you buy them for utility and/or enjoyment.

I personally buy the 10/10 machine because I value performace over everything, and because it also means that you can put off your purchase of your next machine a little longer if you like. This is particularly so because Vista has VERY HEAVY hardware requirements, so if I were buying a machine now, I would make sure I didn't have to replace it as soon as Vista came out.

Anyway, as you said it is your opinion, and it all relates to what a person is looking for in a machine. Just as some people buy BMWs, others buy Hyundais. One decision isn't better than another, just different.

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by gluck75

What would you say the advantages of the MAC are over Windows?

Interesting question.

My Mac laptops are superior in their physical design and build quality. This has made them rugged, and they have coped with travel much better than my HP does (I travel frequently, and with both machines, but now with the MacBook Pro, I will only have to take the one machine because it runs Windows too - YAY!). Try integrated camera and infra-red remote control on for size, keyboard backlight, magnetic power connection (which works much better than I thought it would) and the list goes on...

The OS (to me) seems more stable and advanced, so things just seem to work better and with less drama - making my life easier. But I guess this is subjective and depends on what you do with your machine. I would say (from my technical perspecive and my large system background) that the Unix base of Mac OS is what puts it ahead, and creates the stability. But being a Chief Information Officer, I am a geek at heart...

Macs are superior at graphics processing, film and audio editing, mainly because of the OS, embedded technologies such as Quartz and Core Audio, and the great software Apple offer - iLife for the consumer end, and the Pro apps for the high end. However you said that this wasn't a priority for you as you just run Office, so I guess this doesn't apply to you.

I have to say that iWork is a real advantage, especially the presentation program Keynote. It kicks ass, has styles and effects no one else has seen before, so if you give presentations, Keynote gives you the edge because your audience has seen the capabilities of powerpoint before. Let me tell you this, the first time I wheeled my Mac into the Boardroom, there was scoffing, but after I finished my presentation - they clapped. Not having pepople drift off in your presentation means you get your message across.

A related feature that is nifty is Salling Clicker, remote control software that works over bluetooth to control applications on the Mac, including the presentation software. For Powerpoint for the Mac you get the slide notes on the PDA screen, with Keynote it is just a simple navigation remote - but Keynote has the best presenter display I have seen (current slide, next slide and your speaker notes on the laptop screen, presentation on the projector). This Clicker software allows you to roam the room and get close to your audience (bluetooth works up to 10m away), and control your presentation like a pro - very impressive to your audience. Most don't see my PDA and think I have timed it to automatic slide transitions I don't know of any similar software for the PC.

AirTunes capability of Apple wireless networking. With Airport Express devices connected to your stereo you can play iTunes music wirelessly. My music thus follows me to any of the 3 stereo systems in my house... you can do this on Windows too with iTunes for PC and Airport Expresses.

I said intersting question because discusing the individual parts does not create a compelling answer really, it is really a synergy thing... my best advice is to try using one for yourself and see how you like it. Some people hate Macs for the same reasons I prefer not to use Windows - it doesn't think like they do, ie they don't feel that using it is intuitive. I don't think this is something that someone can convince you of just by discussion alone, I think you really have to use one and decide for yourself.

In the beginning I thought all the media features were not necessary and I would never use them, they are so easy to use that now I can't do without them. Case in point - a friend from Switzerland - Stephanie is staying with me and leaves soon. When she goes I will hand her a DVD she can play in a normal DVD player with a slideshow of all the photos we took while she was here set to music. This will take no effort to produce (except for choosing music and sequencing the photos), and my prototype I showed her has absolutely knocked her socks off - now a happy Steph is priceless

You can probably do all these things on a PC. But at the end of the day it is much much easier on a Mac because they are designed to do these things all the time, and you get a hell of a lot of software from Apple as standard.

I do have to say that in its early days I liked XP, mainly because it was such a huge leap forward from Win 2K. But I think XP is a pretty facade over some awful architecture - namely Windows NT with some tweaks. I am very interested in Vista, but I think it has been too de-featured over time because MS can't seem to keep to a development schedule.

So I know this is a long winded answer, and probably a little too detailed, but I guess it is an interesting question, and my honest response is that my reasons for preferring the Mac (and I have only had one at home for 1 year now, prior to that had mostly PCs) are complex and deep.

I am sure that this post will generate a lot of discussion...

[MoreCowbell]

Originally Posted by JamieA

Interesting question.

My Mac laptops are superior in their physical design and build quality. This has made them rugged, and they have coped with travel much better than my HP does (I travel frequently, and with both machines, but now with the MacBook Pro, I will only have to take the one machine because it runs Windows too - YAY!). Try integrated camera and infra-red remote control on for size, keyboard backlight, magnetic power connection (which works much better than I thought it would) and the list goes on...

The OS (to me) seems more stable and advanced, so things just seem to work better and with less drama - making my life easier. But I guess this is subjective and depends on what you do with your machine. I would say (from my technical perspecive and my large system background) that the Unix base of Mac OS is what puts it ahead, and creates the stability. But being a Chief Information Officer, I am a geek at heart...

Macs are superior at graphics processing, film and audio editing, mainly because of the OS, embedded technologies such as Quartz and Core Audio, and the great software Apple offer - iLife for the consumer end, and the Pro apps for the high end. However you said that this wasn't a priority for you as you just run Office, so I guess this doesn't apply to you.

I have to say that iWork is a real advantage, especially the presentation program Keynote. It kicks ass, has styles and effects no one else has seen before, so if you give presentations, Keynote gives you the edge because your audience has seen the capabilities of powerpoint before. Let me tell you this, the first time I wheeled my Mac into the Boardroom, there was scoffing, but after I finished my presentation - they clapped. Not having pepople drift off in your presentation means you get your message across.

A related feature that is nifty is Salling Clicker, remote control software that works over bluetooth to control applications on the Mac, including the presentation software. For Powerpoint for the Mac you get the slide notes on the PDA screen, with Keynote it is just a simple navigation remote - but Keynote has the best presenter display I have seen (current slide, next slide and your speaker notes on the laptop screen, presentation on the projector). This Clicker software allows you to roam the room and get close to your audience (bluetooth works up to 10m away), and control your presentation like a pro - very impressive to your audience. Most don't see my PDA and think I have timed it to automatic slide transitions I don't know of any similar software for the PC.

AirTunes capability of Apple wireless networking. With Airport Express devices connected to your stereo you can play iTunes music wirelessly. My music thus follows me to any of the 3 stereo systems in my house... you can do this on Windows too with iTunes for PC and Airport Expresses.

I said intersting question because discusing the individual parts does not create a compelling answer really, it is really a synergy thing... my best advice is to try using one for yourself and see how you like it. Some people hate Macs for the same reasons I prefer not to use Windows - it doesn't think like they do, ie they don't feel that using it is intuitive. I don't think this is something that someone can convince you of just by discussion alone, I think you really have to use one and decide for yourself.

In the beginning I thought all the media features were not necessary and I would never use them, they are so easy to use that now I can't do without them. Case in point - a friend from Switzerland - Stephanie is staying with me and leaves soon. When she goes I will hand her a DVD she can play in a normal DVD player with a slideshow of all the photos we took while she was here set to music. This will take no effort to produce (except for choosing music and sequencing the photos), and my prototype I showed her has absolutely knocked her socks off - now a happy Steph is priceless

You can probably do all these things on a PC. But at the end of the day it is much much easier on a Mac because they are designed to do these things all the time, and you get a hell of a lot of software from Apple as standard.

I do have to say that in its early days I liked XP, mainly because it was such a huge leap forward from Win 2K. But I think XP is a pretty facade over some awful architecture - namely Windows NT with some tweaks. I am very interested in Vista, but I think it has been too de-featured over time because MS can't seem to keep to a development schedule.

So I know this is a long winded answer, and probably a little too detailed, but I guess it is an interesting question, and my honest response is that my reasons for preferring the Mac (and I have only had one at home for 1 year now, prior to that had mostly PCs) are complex and deep.

I am sure that this post will generate a lot of discussion...

EXCELLENT POST!!!! I LEARNED A LOT....



I'm curious if Vista will the Happy medium...

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by gluck75

EXCELLENT POST!!!! I LEARNED A LOT....



I'm curious if Vista will the Happy medium...

Thank you.

I am very curious about Vista also... I am a techo, I love getting my hands on new stuff!

[nabutes]

Originally Posted by JamieA

Interesting question.

My Mac laptops are superior in their physical design and build quality. This has made them rugged, and they have coped with travel much better than my HP does (I travel frequently, and with both machines, but now with the MacBook Pro, I will only have to take the one machine because it runs Windows too - YAY!). Try integrated camera and infra-red remote control on for size, keyboard backlight, magnetic power connection (which works much better than I thought it would) and the list goes on...

The OS (to me) seems more stable and advanced, so things just seem to work better and with less drama - making my life easier. But I guess this is subjective and depends on what you do with your machine. I would say (from my technical perspecive and my large system background) that the Unix base of Mac OS is what puts it ahead, and creates the stability. But being a Chief Information Officer, I am a geek at heart...

Macs are superior at graphics processing, film and audio editing, mainly because of the OS, embedded technologies such as Quartz and Core Audio, and the great software Apple offer - iLife for the consumer end, and the Pro apps for the high end. However you said that this wasn't a priority for you as you just run Office, so I guess this doesn't apply to you.

I have to say that iWork is a real advantage, especially the presentation program Keynote. It kicks ass, has styles and effects no one else has seen before, so if you give presentations, Keynote gives you the edge because your audience has seen the capabilities of powerpoint before. Let me tell you this, the first time I wheeled my Mac into the Boardroom, there was scoffing, but after I finished my presentation - they clapped. Not having pepople drift off in your presentation means you get your message across.

A related feature that is nifty is Salling Clicker, remote control software that works over bluetooth to control applications on the Mac, including the presentation software. For Powerpoint for the Mac you get the slide notes on the PDA screen, with Keynote it is just a simple navigation remote - but Keynote has the best presenter display I have seen (current slide, next slide and your speaker notes on the laptop screen, presentation on the projector). This Clicker software allows you to roam the room and get close to your audience (bluetooth works up to 10m away), and control your presentation like a pro - very impressive to your audience. Most don't see my PDA and think I have timed it to automatic slide transitions I don't know of any similar software for the PC.

AirTunes capability of Apple wireless networking. With Airport Express devices connected to your stereo you can play iTunes music wirelessly. My music thus follows me to any of the 3 stereo systems in my house... you can do this on Windows too with iTunes for PC and Airport Expresses.

I said intersting question because discusing the individual parts does not create a compelling answer really, it is really a synergy thing... my best advice is to try using one for yourself and see how you like it. Some people hate Macs for the same reasons I prefer not to use Windows - it doesn't think like they do, ie they don't feel that using it is intuitive. I don't think this is something that someone can convince you of just by discussion alone, I think you really have to use one and decide for yourself.

In the beginning I thought all the media features were not necessary and I would never use them, they are so easy to use that now I can't do without them. Case in point - a friend from Switzerland - Stephanie is staying with me and leaves soon. When she goes I will hand her a DVD she can play in a normal DVD player with a slideshow of all the photos we took while she was here set to music. This will take no effort to produce (except for choosing music and sequencing the photos), and my prototype I showed her has absolutely knocked her socks off - now a happy Steph is priceless

You can probably do all these things on a PC. But at the end of the day it is much much easier on a Mac because they are designed to do these things all the time, and you get a hell of a lot of software from Apple as standard.

I do have to say that in its early days I liked XP, mainly because it was such a huge leap forward from Win 2K. But I think XP is a pretty facade over some awful architecture - namely Windows NT with some tweaks. I am very interested in Vista, but I think it has been too de-featured over time because MS can't seem to keep to a development schedule.

So I know this is a long winded answer, and probably a little too detailed, but I guess it is an interesting question, and my honest response is that my reasons for preferring the Mac (and I have only had one at home for 1 year now, prior to that had mostly PCs) are complex and deep.

I am sure that this post will generate a lot of discussion...

This post made me shed a tear....BRAVO!

[MB330]

I do have to say that in its early days I liked XP, mainly because it was such a huge leap forward from Win 2K. But I think XP is a pretty facade over some awful architecture - namely Windows NT with some tweaks. I am very interested in Vista, but I think it has been too de-featured over time because MS can't seem to keep to a development schedule

[poldim]

Register for this site, they generally have good deals (Hot Deals Forum): http://forums.anandtech.com/categori...596&entercat=y

I've bought my past two laptops (Dells) through the use of Dell Small Business. They have amazing discounts and great warranty support, just get Complete Care and anything you do to it is covered so long as you say "accident" in your explanation. My friend called and said he accidentally ran it over with his 4 Runner. Got a new laptop the next day.

I'd wait until the $500 off $1400 or more coupon. I purchase with most of the hardware upgrades and spend $1200 to $1300 shipped for a good widescreen laptop.


BTW, widescreen is the only way to go.

[tl_boy]

car and computer technologies advance at different paces. Maybe car R&D labs have numerous changes, but what actually comes out to consumers isn't nearly as dynamic as consumer computer technology.

And, 95% of people don't need 10 out of 10 computers, so generally when i give computer advice to people, i would never suggest they buy top of the line. Of course, it would depend on the individual needs.

Originally Posted by JamieA

Just like cars, computers are always going to depreciate, you don't buy them to make or conserve money, you buy them for utility and/or enjoyment.

I personally buy the 10/10 machine because I value performace over everything, and because it also means that you can put off your purchase of your next machine a little longer if you like. This is particularly so because Vista has VERY HEAVY hardware requirements, so if I were buying a machine now, I would make sure I didn't have to replace it as soon as Vista came out.

Anyway, as you said it is your opinion, and it all relates to what a person is looking for in a machine. Just as some people buy BMWs, others buy Hyundais. One decision isn't better than another, just different.

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by tl_boy

car and computer technologies advance at different paces. Maybe car R&D labs have numerous changes, but what actually comes out to consumers isn't nearly as dynamic as consumer computer technology.

And, 95% of people don't need 10 out of 10 computers, so generally when i give computer advice to people, i would never suggest they buy top of the line. Of course, it would depend on the individual needs.

Ordinarily, I would agree with you, but my warning was about making sure that what you buy will run Vista. What you gotta realise is that the CoreDuo processor is about to mark the PC industry like a growth ring on a tree stump. A good analogy is being the last person to buy a 56k modem and dial up plan, just as the world is converting to broad band... don't get left behind...


Plus I assumed that as this is a BMW forum, people here would be interested in performance, as they are generally "top of the line" kinda people

[tl_boy]

honestly, 95% of people's computer uses are confined to the following:

burning cd's. using wordprocessing software. surfing the internet. checking mail. its funny when they ask me if they should buy this "3.2 ghz pc, if it would be good for them." lol...

A pentium III 800 with 512mb of Ram, a 20gb hard drive, and a broadband connection is MORE than sufficient for these uses.

After that, you have those that do gaming (3d). For those, a single, super fast processor with good memory and an even better video card and fast hard drive is good. Still don't need top of the line equipment (maybe a top of the line consumer level video card).

But when you do heavy graphic design, 3d rendering, video editing, yeah you want the big hard drives, chock full of ram, dual processors, etc...

Originally Posted by JamieA

Ordinarily, I would agree with you, but my warning was about making sure that what you buy will run Vista. What you gotta realise is that the CoreDuo processor is about to mark the PC industry like a growth ring on a tree stump. A good analogy is being the last person to buy a 56k modem and dial up plan, just as the world is converting to broad band... don't get left behind...


Plus I assumed that as this is a BMW forum, people here would be interested in performance, as they are generally "top of the line" kinda people

[gscone]

[QUOTE=tl_boy]honestly, 95% of people's computer uses are confined to the following:

burning cd's. using wordprocessing software. surfing the internet. checking mail. its funny when they ask me if they should buy this "3.2 ghz pc, if it would be good for them." lol...[QUOTE]

And where did you collect ya stat's from?

[tl_boy]

lol its not a scientific figure, but most people is what i mean. you writing a research report?



[QUOTE=gscone][QUOTE=tl_boy]honestly, 95% of people's computer uses are confined to the following:

burning cd's. using wordprocessing software. surfing the internet. checking mail. its funny when they ask me if they should buy this "3.2 ghz pc, if it would be good for them." lol...

And where did you collect ya stat's from?

[gscone]

LOL..nah dude....

[poldim]

Originally Posted by JamieA

Ordinarily, I would agree with you, but my warning was about making sure that what you buy will run Vista. What you gotta realise is that the CoreDuo processor is about to mark the PC industry like a growth ring on a tree stump. A good analogy is being the last person to buy a 56k modem and dial up plan, just as the world is converting to broad band... don't get left behind...


Plus I assumed that as this is a BMW forum, people here would be interested in performance, as they are generally "top of the line" kinda people

Very good point. I'm somewhat skepticle about Vista, but nonetheless, your computer should be capable of running it. My desktop is an 64 AMD, so I'm set. I've thought about loading it on to see what its like in its current stages, but then thought it would be a waste of life since even when the software is finished it runs like shit...

[abc]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

look up Asus laptops. I think you will like it.

yep. they're hot stuff.

[3s-a-charm]

gluck,

I just received my new Dell Latitude D620 and it ROCKS!!!

I still do professional photography so the screen is very important. I went with the 14" true-bright due to portability.

It has the core duo processor, 2GB of fast RAM, 100GB 7200rpm HD, etc....

Of course, 5 years from now I'll look back on those specs and have a good laugh as I'm sitting in front of my Pentium 12 with 4TB of ram and 200TB 14,400rpm HD.....

But for this day/age, this is one sweet machine! I really appreciate the "tri-metal" finish as it isn't so "plastic" feeling - it's similar material that cell phones like the RAZR are made of - feels like metal but much lighter.

Mac is great but windows is fine. Vista keeps getting pushed back...

I would probably switch to mac if they had all of the software requirements I need. Plus, my desktops are all PC so it's a tough switch...

Good luck!

-3

[bringsmewomen]

Originally Posted by gluck75

Here is what I want...

-Lightening fast Web surfing
-I look at photos and occasional video, but no real multimedia editing
-I use MSFT office a lot.
-I want my browsers and apps to load LIGHTENING FAST
-I want it to be secure
-Size is not a big concern
-I want a VERY sharp screen.

Suggestions????

Should I wait for Windows Vista?

Im in the same situation. Waiting for Vista. But that's in January 2007. I want a tiny laptop. Maybe a sony vaio.

If you want something serious, go for a Alienware.