[MLover1]

Originally Posted by dbru

This thinking isn't logical. Right or wrong in order to make this car faster than it's predecessor AND meet emission standards they had to take the PHEV route. This is reality and will be the case moving forward. The next new M5 will no doubt will be an EV to meet new standards. I'm not saying it's a good thing but it's a fact and we all need to accept it.

Well, they’re still charging the $2800 gas guzzler tax in the US. I call that a double whammy for the consumers. That tells me that the government doesn’t think much of the fact it’s a hybrid car. I think they should’ve left the M alone because they have i5 for people who want electric.

[MLover1]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

And the XM failed for two reasons.

Way over priced for what you were getting

Controversial styling (I flat out think its ugly from every angle except the front)

It did NOT fail because of the powertrain or weight.

Way overpriced when you can buy the X5M for $30K less and looks nicer too, but that’s my opinion.
They want to be in the market with all these new models and at the same time be compliant with the new environmental laws, but they’ll be losing some loyal customers. XM was an epic failure. The dealership near me is offering the 2024 XM’s for $30K rebate and they’re still not selling them.

[M5ddox]

Color. is. Unreal. Love this spec

[dbru]

Originally Posted by MLover1

Well, they’re still charging the $2800 gas guzzler tax in the US. I call that a double whammy for the consumers. That tells me that the government doesn’t think much of the fact it’s a hybrid car. I think they should’ve left the M alone because they have i5 for people who want electric.

I think you're missing the point. If they left it alone, in order to meet new emission standards the car wouldn't be nearly as fast as the F90. Left with a choice of building a petrol car that doesn't perform as well as it's predecessor or biting the bullet and introducing a PHEV it's an easy decision for the business.

As you can see it is faster than the F90 and meets the emission standards. They have done their job because 99% of it's buying audience is happy. As mentioned on this forum before, most here are edge cases so discussing PHEV vs. petrol in the big picture for BMW is moot. For transparency purposes I rather like this approach. I don't have to worry about my car being bricked in the dead of winter in frosty Chicagoland.

[Alan l.]

From my understanding the competition from Audi and Mercedes is also going this route. There is no way a ICE only powertrain will be able to keep up and meet global emissions requirements. BMW seems to know what they are doing and isn't going to be short sighted by pleasing a small percentage of forum enthusiasts.

[Bahn360Photo]

What a great color!

With wagon out that what I’m aiming at!

Whatever people complain about weight and design, I really like it

[dbru]

Originally Posted by MLover1

Well, they’re still charging the $2800 gas guzzler tax in the US. I call that a double whammy for the consumers. That tells me that the government doesn’t think much of the fact it’s a hybrid car. I think they should’ve left the M alone because they have i5 for people who want electric.

Just thinking about the $2800 gas guzzler tax. I'm surprised no one is talking about the possibility of tariffs. If you are on the fence with any foreign car you'd be remiss not to buy now. If even a fraction of what's being talked about happens the $2800 gas guzzler tax will look like peanuts.

[thaalrasha]

Originally Posted by Lifted

Finally someone saying what I’ve been thinking. I don’t get taking the M to PHEV

It's to avoid constructor CO2 fines... In Europe you can't have too many models with high Co2 outputs, so if they wanted to keep an M5 with a V8 in their line up, this move to PHEV was mandatory. Thanks to that there will be enough of their CO2 quota to have the next M3 as ICE option, so is it ideal ? no but the options are limited... At least we don't have a nasty AMG like engine downsize or complete absence of E63.

[sm16]

Is that Marina Bay Blue Metallic?

[Moewron]

Originally Posted by sm16

Is that Marina Bay Blue Metallic?

Yep!

[FVierzig]

Originally Posted by MLover1

Well, they’re still charging the $2800 gas guzzler tax in the US. I call that a double whammy for the consumers. That tells me that the government doesn’t think much of the fact it’s a hybrid car. I think they should’ve left the M alone because they have i5 for people who want electric.

BMW just tries to make a car that fits all the markets. Due to the stricter EU emissions laws coming up they pretty much are forced to make it a hybrid. The US government still lets you pay a gas gussler tax because there is probably a V8 in it (but I don't know the exact details as it is not something I worry about ). In the Netherlands you pay for the CO2 emissions produced on a new car (or imported). On my F90 it was ~50k euro in 2022 (which was about ~$58k back then). The G99 will have about ~2200 euro in 'CO2 tax'. My M5 costed about 215K euro everything included in 2022 and my G99 will cost 171k (both are full option so that is a really big difference).
The Netherlands is not the only country that also had these crazy taxes, Finland and Ireland are other ones that I know of that have these CO2 based taxes.
BMW is a european/german based company and will develop cars to the legislation imposed on them by the EU, which is their second largest and strictest market.

[Lifted]

Originally Posted by thaalrasha

It's to avoid constructor CO2 fines... In Europe you can't have too many models with high Co2 outputs, so if they wanted to keep an M5 with a V8 in their line up, this move to PHEV was mandatory. Thanks to that there will be enough of their CO2 quota to have the next M3 as ICE option, so is it ideal ? no but the options are limited... At least we don't have a nasty AMG like engine downsize or complete absence of E63.

I just assumed with the way the i series has been selling that they had been storing up enough credits, but truthfully so long as the next M3 has an ICE option I’m good (a non-hybrid ICE option)

[Berry528]

This is luxury, let's drive around the world 🌎My car, My first wife lol #BMW

[M5 London]

Originally Posted by MLover1

Very disappointed. What a shame! Why mess with a good thing? Traditionally every new M model has been faster than it’s predecessor. The new G90 is 1000 lbs heavier by being turned into a hybrid so that it can drive only 25 miles on electricity?! I think BMW messed it up this time. They have the i5 for people who want an electric car. Why did they have to mess with the M? I hope there’s gonna be a competition model in the pipes for the true M enthusiasts. For now, I’ll stick with my M8. By the way, their experiment with the XM failed miserably and it’ll be discontinued. They should’ve known better.

Not sure if you're aware, but this car is made in Germany, which is part of the European Union (EU). The EU sets very strong and punitive environmental regulations especially in terms of the automotive industry, year on year. For BMW M to maintain the production and sale of a high performance V8 engined super saloon, today, it has had to adopt a hybrid route, to satisfy said regulations.

The above, from what I'm seeing, seems quite tough to grasp for quite a few people, including yourself. But that's fair enough I suppose. You either get it or you don't.

[M5 London]

Originally Posted by Lifted

Finally someone saying what I’ve been thinking. I don’t get taking the M to PHEV

You'll get it soon, I'm sure.

[M5 London]

Originally Posted by MLover1

Way overpriced when you can buy the X5M for $30K less and looks nicer too, but that’s my opinion.
They want to be in the market with all these new models and at the same time be compliant with the new environmental laws, but they’ll be losing some loyal customers. XM was an epic failure. The dealership near me is offering the 2024 XM’s for $30K rebate and they’re still not selling them.

I got £34K ($43K) discount on my new F90 M5 Comp LCI in 2021.....