[Thenaven]

With lightning speed Burger Motorsports has released a JB4 for the G90 M5!!!!

https://burgertuning.com/collections...mt_2FSfrboNktP

[Poppe933]

Mine just shipped this afternoon!!!!!

[ctelimad]

Ordered mine yesterday!
Still dont have the car yet lol

[Elitedax3]

This will be my first BMW.

I clicked the link and read through the details on the JB4. So it's truly a plug and play and doesn't throw any codes or need any additional tuning? Is that how their previous units have worked on previous gen M5's?

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by Elitedax3

This will be my first BMW.

I clicked the link and read through the details on the JB4. So it's truly a plug and play and doesn't throw any codes or need any additional tuning? Is that how their previous units have worked on previous gen M5's?

I had one a while ago on my X5M. It truly is plug and play.

Here is the most basic description of how a piggy back works. Typically the ECU would take a reading directly from the sensor for something like boost pressure. If the ECU does read enough boost it calls for more, if it reads too much boost the ECU lowers. A piggy back is installed between the ECU and the sensor. You unplug the sensor, plug that wire going to the ECU into the piggyback, and plug the piggyback into the sensor. Now when the sensor reads boost pressure, the piggyback intercepts that signal and give the ECU a false ready. For example, when the sensor sees 16 psi of boost, it will imitate the signal from the sensor as if it is only reading 10psi. This tricks the ECU into making more boost and power.

The JB4 is much more complex than this, but works on this principle. It tricks the ECU into thinking that it is getting different signals.

[Elitedax3]

Thanks Crazy. That makes perfect sense to me. Coming from a CT5 Blackwing and it was a very tough ECU to mod from my understanding so I never touched it. Sounds like the BMW ECU is a little more friendly.

[Thenaven]

I had one in my f90 M5C and it was great. Never had a problem. I am in the break in period on my G90 M5. Hoping to see some reviews soon…

[Thenaven]

Dyno results.

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by Elitedax3

Thanks Crazy. That makes perfect sense to me. Coming from a CT5 Blackwing and it was a very tough ECU to mod from my understanding so I never touched it. Sounds like the BMW ECU is a little more friendly.

Piggybacks are used when you do not want to mod the ECU. Instead of modding it, the piggyback tricks the ECU into thinking something different is going on.

As far as the ECU knows, the car is 100% stock operating at stick power levels.

Newer BMW ECU’s are actually quite a pain to tune. I don’t think they can be flashed, they have to have the entire ECU removed from the vehicle and sent to a special facility to modify it.

[ctelimad]

Originally Posted by Thenaven

I had one in my f90 M5C and it was great. Never had a problem. I am in the break in period on my G90 M5. Hoping to see some reviews soon…

Emailed terry and he told me they recommend to connect the westgate connections o the new g90 m5 compared to the f90 M5
But they are probably srill doing some testing
Hopefully in january i can use it
I still need to get the car lol

[rjlsae]

What’s the install time? Reversal time?
This intrigues me. Would like to wait for some reviews. Should see my G90 in the next week or 2.

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by Elitedax3

This will be my first BMW.

I clicked the link and read through the details on the JB4. So it's truly a plug and play and doesn't throw any codes or need any additional tuning? Is that how their previous units have worked on previous gen M5's?

If BMW really wants to know if you've tuned the car they will be able to find out, it won't throw codes but they can look at more in depth diagnostics on the engine and figure it out.

If someone knows for a fact this is wrong chime in but that's been my understanding from using these on other cars in the past

Also people should be careful with the gearbox, pretty sure this car is on the ragged edge of it's limits from the factory. Dynos make it look like they might've even tuned it to protect the box too but I'm not a expert on that stuff.

[ctelimad]

Originally Posted by iifymbro

If BMW really wants to know if you've tuned the car they will be able to find out, it won't throw codes but they can look at more in depth diagnostics on the engine and figure it out.

If someone knows for a fact this is wrong chime in but that's been my understanding from using these on other cars in the past

Also people should be careful with the gearbox, pretty sure this car is on the ragged edge of it's limits from the factory. Dynos make it look like they might've even tuned it to protect the box too but I'm not a expert on that stuff.

The gearbox is the issue , the engine can handle because it is detuned
I will not go over map 2
Yes if bmw wants to check they can find out if it is tuned

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by iifymbro

Also people should be careful with the gearbox, pretty sure this car is on the ragged edge of its limits from the factory. Dynos make it look like they might've even tuned it to protect the box too but I'm not an expert on that stuff.

I work as a tax attorney, but have a degree in mechanical engineering (I was a blast at parties in college), so I somewhat know what I am talking about.

I believe this is true because this is EXACTLY what the torque curve looks like for industrial gear systems (think big factories/plants). Electric motors are much easier to control the torque and RPM of as compared to ICE engines so they can be designed to act this way pretty easily. Remember Power equals (Torque X’s RPM’s)/Constant. In the case of Ft lbs and horsepower, that constant is 5250.

From low RPM’s the motors are set to deliver a constant torque as parts start moving to prevent applying too much torque to any one component ans it overcomes inertia. As RPM’s increase, torque remains flat, so system power goes up. Now as RPM’s increase heat in the gears starts to builds up. To combat this the motor moves into a constant power operation. Now, as RPM’s increase the torque is reduced. This keeps the system power at a constant level as RPM’s go up.

If you look at the stock dyno you can see nearly dead flat torque at 737 Ft Lbs (this is 1,000Nm, which is the transmissions rated torque from ZF). As the RPM’s increase, and so does heat. At about 5,250 RPM’s there is a nice linear decrease in torque that keeps power pretty damn flat at 700 whp.

I would be shocked if it maintains a perfectly flat torque curve up to the “gearhead’s constant” of 5,250 RPM’s at which point it switches to a perfectly flat power curve accidentally.

Also, that 737 Ft lbs is the exact amount of torque from the new Panamera Turbo S E-hybrid even thought it has more power. These likely use the exact same ZF transmission. The XM label also makes more power, but makes the exact same 737 ft lbs of torque.

At lower RPM’s, torque kills transmissions.

[ASAP]

i am curious how this aircraft carrier will stop with another 100 whp... people truly forget this thing weighs 5500 lbs

[Moewron]

Do you think this is the only high-performance car at this weight?

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Moewron

Do you think this is the only high-performance car at this weight?

i only know of 2 others that would be driven in this way...

Panamera Turbo S E hybrid

Gt63 E hybrid

Neither of those cars are meant to turn... and neither of those are the tuners choice for this very reason.

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i am curious how this aircraft carrier will stop with another 100 whp... people truly forget this thing weighs 5500 lbs

This car has similar weight and brakes to a Pamanera Turbo S e-Hybrid. This car can stop from 60 mph in about 100ft. I would image the M5 would be very close to this braking distance.

You have to remember, any electric motor is also a generator. The motor can effectively act like a 200hp engine brake. This likely depends on the charging limits of the battery, but may even be able to brake with more than 200hp, since that current would only be for a short time.

I think this car will have plenty of brakes for whatever you throw at it, even with the standard steel brakes. CCB’s don’t really start to make a difference until you get into repeated heavy braking. But they look cool and are lighter

[Moewron]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i only know of 2 others that would be driven in this way...

Panamera Turbo S E hybrid

Gt63 E hybrid

Neither of those cars are meant to turn... and neither of those are the tuners choice for this very reason.

Yep! You could (arguably) add to that list the X5M, even.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Moewron

Yep! You could (arguably) add to that list the X5M, even.

yes, except the x5m is an suv... and the other 2 both have lighter versions available that are ice only... and those are the tuners preferred choices

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Crazy1323

This car has similar weight and brakes to a Pamanera Turbo S e-Hybrid. This car can stop from 60 mph in about 100ft. I would image the M5 would be very close to this braking distance.

You have to remember, any electric motor is also a generator. The motor can effectively act like a 200hp engine brake. This likely depends on the charging limits of the battery, but may even be able to brake with more than 200hp, since that current would only be for a short time.

I think this car will have plenty of brakes for whatever you throw at it, even with the standard steel brakes. CCB’s don’t really start to make a difference until you get into repeated heavy braking. But they look cool and are lighter

its 200lbs heavier than the panamera... and thats beside that fact that a pure ICE panamera exists

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i only know of 2 others that would be driven in this way...

Panamera Turbo S E hybrid

Gt63 E hybrid

Neither of those cars are meant to turn... and neither of those are the tuners choice for this very reason.

the panamera turbo S is within a second or two of the 991 GT3's time around the 'ring (991.2 chopped 10-12 seconds off that)... it definitely can turn. Costs as much as a decent starter home but it does hustle when you want it to lol.

If you mis-typed and meant tune then different story, but weight doesn't automatically mean a car can't rip through the twisties