[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

I am not the one who made the most stupidiest statement ever, at least my comment is based in fact, with a lighter body, a lower center of gravity and semi-race compound tyres the M6 only achieved a drop of 4 seconds on the M5 around the ring. Many here believe the tyres on their own was account for 6~8 seconds, if so then all that hard work by M-Division produced a much slower car. At least every time Porsche work on a car they make quicker not slower.

I don't want to pick on you just because you dislike Audis, but when you comment on things that have no bases in fact and to everyone else sound like BS (which it is) then you put yourself out there to have shots taken at you.

You are a fun guy to poke fun at but you have shown your complete technical incompetence and your general ignorance about cars. In any discussion, it is always better to have you on the opposite side.

The fact that I have an M6 has no relevance to this discussion.

Show us the picture when you actually get an M3. I have NEVER seen anybody who has criticized a car that you claim you intend to buy. If you were hired by VAG, they have not gotten their money's worth because the only thing you have proven is that you are a clown. But you are a mate.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by 155MPH

And your point is? BMW spent Euro 39M more in R$D in 07 over 06.

That's mice nuts....that's 0.5% of revenue. They already made the decision to go down this product path months, if not a year ago.

Normally when you embark on making dumb fast trucks, a new category for BMW, you would expect R&D to jump up but they are to stay neutral or go negative.

BMW should learn from MB's mistake in the 1990s to seek more profit at the expensive of quality.....MB suffered for a decade.

[footie]

Originally Posted by T Bone

You are a fun guy to poke fun at but you have shown your complete technical incompetence and your general ignorance about cars. In any discussion, it is always better to have you on the opposite side.

The fact that I have an M6 has no relevance to this discussion.

Show us the picture when you actually get an M3. I have NEVER seen anybody who has criticized a car that you claim you intend to buy. If you were hired by VAG, they have not gotten their money's worth because the only thing you have proven is that you are a clown. But you are a mate.

Will gladly produce the pictures for you when the car comes. The criticized is a general one and it's relating to your comments on Porsche's R&D, when one makes the kind of comment you made does not show me as ignorant, incompetence or a clown but I can't say the same for yourself.

Technical knowledge does not prove ability, enough swamp acknowledges that one, maybe you should concede the same.

The difference between maybe yourself and me is I appreciate fine engineering, quality build and and an understanding of the market place that some manufacturers have. Porsche clear are one of those companies, not only have they kept a design which is over forty years old because the public want it that way but they have continued to improve the product and not only keep it in touch with the competition but in a lot of ways it's ahead of the game.

I admire BMW's M3 for the very same reasons, the car has kept at the top while all the time has evolved into a more polished and rounded competitor. My criticized of BMW is it's wayward designs and their inability to prove every time, the M5 is a wonderful car, the M6 is not, likewise the 1series Hatch was a poor design, poorly packaged for a market which requires space at a price. When BMW get it right they are unstoppable, the mini being the perfect example but as I said above, when they get it wrong the results are poor sales and poor residuals.

VAG are a company which is in tune with what the public need, maybe not in the US or Canada but else where the product is selling really well, not everyone wants the ultimate handling machine. Quality, space, price and practicality is their requirements and it's here were Audi is scoring well. I think if they build on their great results like that of the RS4 and R8 then they will be a thorn in BMW's side but until that day I still see BMW holding on to that crown, if by the skin of their teeth.

[Bimmer Nerd]

Originally Posted by T Bone

If BMW fails to capture the imagination by technical leadership (like ///M) the master brand BMW will suffer.

Companies would kill for an enthusiast customer base like ///M.

If BMW doesn't keep this segment, they will be LOST like MB for the past decade. MB is now coming back hard. They completely diluted AMG with all the silly shit BMW is doing now. They had to create a "Black" series.....

Porsche is a joke. Stupid 5000 pound truck, Aircraft Carrier size Panamera and a car that evolved from a people's car commissioned by Hitler.

enthusiasts are what DRIVES bmw, teens that drive luxury cars almost 70% and over are driving BMWs and you might ask why, they are known for there power, looks, reability, and well known image, if you took half of this kids off the road (which are making there own monthly payments) thats gonna drop BMW's place in the imported car market and people are not gonna be wanting to get a BMW cuz of many reasons, this kids (such as myself) think that BMW should think twice about making those kinds of decision,s i know i will be disappointed if i got 600$ / monthly payment on 328i , WHO wouldn't be ?? we want to have cars that are nice and can afford and be proud off.

[Palbay]

Originally Posted by epbrown

Enthusiasts have killed more car companies than Father Time. Businesses don't need enthusiasts to survive - they need paying customers. Porsche teetered on the brink of bankruptcy catering to enthusiasts - it's the soccer moms that made them solvent.
This could be good for BMW in a couple of ways. With the leases gone, people looking for a cheap in to the BMW brand will now buy used, improving the residual values that were killing the lease market in the first place. Second, with cars selling at MSRP, they'll actually make money on the cars they do sell.

Excellent,Excellent point....Right on the money observation.I'm a big X6 fan...BMW will sell 30,000+/- X6's in the first full year of production...at close to asking price.Except for the engines all the X6's parts are purchased in US dollars.Beats the weak US dollar problem and thus higher profits for BMW.I've grown weary trying to convince the hard core Enthusiast/Traditionalist to understand what it takes for an International Auto Company to survive in this current World in which we live.You can't survive selling just M3's and 911's.Thanks! PalBay