[tony20009]

Originally Posted by Litos

which Invictas are "Rolex Reps" ??

I don't recall seeing any....

Just to be politely pedantic, I have to say that there are no Invicta watches that are replicas of any Rolex.

• Replica watch: These watches are fakes. Their labeling purports to be that of a maker who had no role at all in the watches' fabrication.
• Knockoff: These watches may look like another brand's watch, but the name on the dial corresponds to the name of the organization that actually fabricated the watch.

For the most part, replica watches violate trademark laws. I'm sure there may be a loophole or two somewhere that allows them to be sold under certain very specific conditions.



Knockoff products are a very different animal. They are all over the place and they are not limited to watches. For example, the very first trench coat was made by either Burberry. Today, even though the design of the original trench coat has some trademarked elements, there are literally hundreds of knockoffs of it. Some are high quality knockoffs and some are lower quality knockoffs.


Manufacturers' of all sorts vehemently defend their trademarks but by the same token, there are legal, economic, and practical case for why knockoffs are permitted to exist.


Which is the original and which is the knockoff?




All the best.

[fmohajer]

IWC???

[Litos]

Originally Posted by tony20009

Just to be politely pedantic, I have to say that there are no Invicta watches that are replicas of any Rolex.
[*]Replica watch: These watches are fakes. Their labeling purports to be that of a maker who had no role at all in the watches' fabrication.[*]Knockoff: These watches may look like another brand's watch, but the name on the dial corresponds to the name of the organization that actually fabricated the watch.

yeah, that's why when I asked the question, I put "Rolex Reps" in quotations, because it was hard to fathom that Invicta would make a Submariner and try to sell it as a Rolex HAHA !!!!

the Submariner is the only watch Invicta went after, which is fine. it's not like 40-70% of their line is a knockoff of other brands....

Invicta has their own lines - it's a love/hate relationship between people who see them.

I happen to be a lover....

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Also be honest - is it really the case that Invicta Rolex replicas (for example) are of "poor quality" (for the price) or is it just irritating to know that a replica watch that will probably fool 70%+ of the population costs ~$9000-$10000 less than the Rolex it imitates?

Personally if I cared about watches as a status symbol, I'd be annoyed. Obviously I don't care about watches as a status symbol, but I can see the rationale. If I was a genuine collector of all watches, I'd probably just collect everything - replicas and "originals" alike.

Note: In this post, I'm just sharing my thoughts and what I know. I'm not commenting about anyone in particular. I don't care if folks wear/buy replicas or knockoffs.

Red:
Check the BBB website regarding Invicta. You decide for yourself about the poor quality. I've made my own decision.

Blue:
If one wants a knockoff style watch, there are several companies whose primary business model is to make watches that look nearly identical to far more expensive ones. Parnis is one such company -- there are others -- and they make knockoffs mostly of Rolex and Panerai watches, and some IWC styles too.

Here's the thing about Parnis. Parnis isn't actually a watch company. They are a company that for all intents and purposes makes dials that other makers can put inside their watches and then sell the watch without incurring trademark violations. The folks who make Parnis' Rolex Sub Pepsi knockoff are not necessarily the same folks who make Parnis' Panerai knockoff. Hell, it's not even clear that the folks who make one, say, Rolex knock off are the same folks who make a different Rolex model knockoff. As far as I can tell, it's also not even clear that the movements inside Parnis watches are what they are claimed to be.

(I refer to Parnis as a single company that's organized in the manner that's familiar to most anyone because it's convenient, but I offer the above so you know what is actually going on.)

Now, does that make the watches not perform well enough? No, not really. However, if one buys a watch that's sold saying it has so and so's movement inside, one would want it to actually be that actual movement, not a clone of that movement. So, for example, when Parnis puts Sea-gull's clone of the ETA 2824 inside their watch and sells it claiming it has ETA inside, that's annoying to me. If they sold the exact same thing stating that it's Sea-gull's movement inside, I wold be fine with that. The fact is that Sea-gull actually make a reasonable movement.

So what is one to do if one wants a knockoff? Well, there are several options.

• Buy a knockoff from a brand that is at least honest about what they actually are doing. Squale for example makes/made a dive watch that looks a lot like a Sub. (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=21) The thing is that it's a knockoff and not a clear effort to ape to the nth detail the look of the Sub. Also, Squale makes a high quality watch. No, it's not going to be as inexpensive as a Parnis or Invicta, but at least you know what you are getting and they will stand behind the product. Other brands make dive watches that closely resemble the most popular expensive styles. Seiko makes a dive watch that looks a helluva lot like a Submariner and the Seiko is an excellent watch just like the Squale is. There are others, one just has to spend some time looking for them.
• Take a trip to Shenzhen, PRC and go to the Luohu shopping complex and buy a replica watch for $25-$50 (depending on your haggling skill). The watches you'll find there are exactly the same ones Parnis is selling and they are the ones you'll find on various websites that sell as replicas. I have given away several of these types of watches as "stocking stuffers" and "door prizes" at office events. Based on folks' comments, they work well. Visually there are some minor differences. For example, I the Sub replica I gave away was quite similar, the sole noticeable difference I could quickly identify was the magnification in the cyclops window. But for that, I couldn't tell the difference.
• Get over it and just wear something, anything, that isn't made to ape the look of something costing far more. IMO, this is probably the best option as there are literally thousands of wonderful watches besides the very expensive ones.

A major problem with many consumers is that they have a completely warped view about branded goods and status. I've said it before but I'll repeat it:

The maker of a product acquires the status of the folks who buy that product, not the other way around.

For example, BMW makes cars. Folks who have high standards for what they want in a car buy BMWs. As a result, BMW becomes recognized as a maker of high quality cars. BMW have gained status because "so and so" buy their cars. "So and so" already was recognized by the rest of us as being an exacting or knowledgeable user of cars, therefore we can conclude that BMW must make a pretty good car because so and so bought one.

The fact that you or I buy one doesn't demonstrate that we are individuals who have the same high standards for cars as "So and so." It does demonstrate that we bought a car that's made such that it meets "So and so's" standards. Whether or not you or I are individuals having high standards is something we each need to demonstrate independently of merely buying a thing made to meet high standards. It's no different with watches.

I realize the distinction is subtle, and perhaps that subtlety is why a lot of folks just don't get it. I can't say for sure why folks struggle with that concept. I can say that there are plenty of folks who have it backwards and who think that they acquire status as a result of the things they choose to buy, be they watches or cars or clothing or cats. Personally, I feel sorry for those folks because I know the unfortunate truth is that no product they buy will ever grant them they status they desire, so they will always be chasing the next "step up" and wasting a lot of money trying to buy something that can't be purchased with money.

All the best.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by fmohajer

IWC???

International Watch Company - http://www.iwc.com/en-us/

They make very nice watches. The watches I like best from them are their chronograph watches. I like them mostly because the subdials on their chronos are very subtle and don't make a big "splash" on the dial of the watch.

That matters to me because I absolutely cannot stand how the chrono subdials usually dominate the appearance of a watch. For the most part, I strongly prefer simple, uncomplicated watches. I just like the cleaner look and to be honest, I have no practical need for any complication on a watch, so I generally won't buy complicated watches since they cost more than their uncomplicated stablemates.

That said, I haven't bought an IWC chrono because even though I think theirs to be the best looking ones I've come across, I still prefer a simple watch.

IWC make a very nice dive watch and their Portuguese line is quite nice too, but their DaVinci line is my favorite because it has the good looks of VC's Malte line but for 15% of the cost. Yes, I do think the Malte looks better in the absolute sense, but not $18K better. I also think VC's movement is more refined, but not $18K more refined. (I feel differently about the VC 1972, mostly because there isn't any competing watch that resembles it.)

Some IWC watches carry in-house movements and some don't. In-house or not, all IWC watches are quite nice.

IWC DaVinci (uncomplicated version - different metal and dial colors available)


Vacheron Constantin Malte




All the best.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

I did buy one invicta and their reuptation of being poor watches is deserved. Any product that gets sold on qvc is directed at a certain demographic that doesn't really fit.

In all fairness, the distribution channel doesn't matter all that much with most watches. All that really matters is that the seller is reputable, selling only authentic products, and has a reasonable returns/exchange policy.

One place I check regularly is Overstock.com. They are an excellent place to buy from and for a knowledgeable watch buyer, there are some seriously outstanding deals to be had there. They even have decent enough prices on pre-owned watches.

Here's an example of a great buy at The O. It's a Vulcain 50 Presidents simple watch. It has an excellent in-house movement and the selling price is great at 40% off. Yes, it's a NOS watch, but Vulcain never made a crappy watch and in-house movements from a high-end boutique maker for less than $3K is unheard of for a new watch, even if it's an older version of a current model.

All the best.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Can you edit your quote to delete the SEO links? If you don't, the spammer still lives on.....

Deleted my response.