[lsturbointeg]

Sorry to hear about Patches!

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

My goldendoodle just back from the groomer

Lovely
Golden doodle is Golden Retriever x Poodle right?

[DETRoadster]

Welcome, Winston!!!!

Sorry to hear about your loss. How is Angus dealing with the loss of Patches, now that Winston is in the picture? Is it helping?

We are gearing up for the same situation. Bella turns 12 this week. She's in good health overall (did a 3 mile hike with us on Sunday), but the age is definitely setting in. I'll be thrilled if we have 2 more solid years with her.

Sophie is 5 and like Angus, does not know life without Bella. She follows Bella everywhere and is totally bonded to her. It's going to be extremely tough on all of us when Bella departs. We are considering whether we should preemptively get a 3rd dog now to help ease into that transition.

Bella


Sophie

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Welcome, Winston!!!!

Sorry to hear about your loss. How is Angus dealing with the loss of Patches, now that Winston is in the picture? Is it helping?

We are gearing up for the same situation. Bella turns 12 this week. She's in good health overall (did a 3 mile hike with us on Sunday), but the age is definitely setting in. I'll be thrilled if we have 2 more solid years with her.

Sophie is 5 and like Angus, does not know life without Bella. She follows Bella everywhere and is totally bonded to her. It's going to be extremely tough on all of us when Bella departs. We are considering whether we should preemptively get a 3rd dog now to help ease into that transition.

For the first few days, Angus almost completely ignored Winston. He slowly started checking him out and showing a little interest over the course of the week and last night did the strangest thing by climbing into Winston’s crate and ultimately laying there with him. (Angus hasn’t been in a crate in 10+ years.)

Unfortunately, Angus’ health is deteriorating and his arthritis is really hurting him. He is taking Tramadol for pain and I think he’s a little out of it because of it. A young hyperactive puppy is not ideal for him right now. So we try to let Winston play and exercise for a while before we let them interact too much. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum and we need to manage interactions a bit for the benefit of both of them (and us).

It has also been over 10 years since we had a puppy and have been reminded just how much work they are. Of course, we knew what we were getting into and it is completely worth it, but you never really “feel the pain” until your in it. Along with Angus’ maintenance and the master bath remodel that also started last week, it is a hectic time!

Bella and Sophie look pretty comfortable! Very nice dogs!

[kscarrol]

Angus and Jake are heading down similar paths! Our ruby, Jake (14 in April) is also on Tramadol for his arthritis. Has good days and bad days... Sad to watch but seeing Winston has us thinking about a friend for Chloe when the tie comes.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Angus and Jake are heading down similar paths! Our ruby, Jake (14 in April) is also on Tramadol for his arthritis. Has good days and bad days... Sad to watch but seeing Winston has us thinking about a friend for Chloe when the tie comes.

It’s tough to get old, Ken. And tough to watch them get old.

Angus has so so days, bad days and really bad days. He can seem shaky on his feet and stare at the wall, and then all of a sudden decide to start running around. He also has become compulsive about drinking water, which makes him a handful. He used to go out 4x / day and now it is a multiple of that. We had his kidneys checked for signs of failure and tested for Cushings, both negative. Does Jakes have and any similar symptoms / behaviors?

We got Winston from a breeder in Tallahassee, who is probably closer to you than us. The sire is from a breeder in Shreveport.

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

It’s tough to get old, Ken. And tough to watch them get old.

Angus has so so days, bad days and really bad days. He can seem shaky on his feet and stare at the wall, and then all of a sudden decide to start running around. He also has become compulsive about drinking water, which makes him a handful. He used to go out 4x / day and now it is a multiple of that. We had his kidneys checked for signs of failure and tested for Cushings, both negative. Does Jakes have and any similar symptoms / behaviors?

We got Winston from a breeder in Tallahassee, who is probably closer to you than us. The sire is from a breeder in Shreveport.

Jake has the same shakiness, sometimes his back legs will just do the splits and he kind of slumps to the ground. Also get the blank staring but like Angus, later in the day he will start rough housing with Chloe! He also has epilepsy so he's on phenobarbital for the seizures, the Tramadol, Carprofin, fish oil pills etc. Anything to keep him comfortable!!

No telling how long he has left but I might reach out to for your breeders name though hopefully not anytime soon!

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Jake has the same shakiness, sometimes his back legs will just do the splits and he kind of slumps to the ground. Also get the blank staring but like Angus, later in the day he will start rough housing with Chloe! He also has epilepsy so he's on phenobarbital for the seizures, the Tramadol, Carprofin, fish oil pills etc. Anything to keep him comfortable!!

No telling how long he has left but I might reach out to for your breeders name though hopefully not anytime soon!

Angus is also on Carprofen, as well as a high blood pressure med and Pimobendan for his heart. He can’t see out of one eye, which doesn’t help with depth perception. He has the same heart condition as Patches but far less advanced. All you can do is keep them comfortable and make the painful decision to let them go when they need you to let them go.

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Angus is also on Carprofen, as well as a high blood pressure med and Pimobendan for his heart. He can’t see out of one eye, which doesn’t help with depth perception. He has the same heart condition as Patches but far less advanced. All you can do is keep them comfortable and make the painful decision to let them go when they need you to let them go.

Thankfully no heart issues with Jake! He is deaf and the eye sight is definitely getting worse but not sure to what extent as we've never had him tested.

I responded before I saw the new picks of Winston and Angus, so cute to see them snuggled up together! We got Chloe when Jake was 7ish. He was NOT happy about Chloe intruding on his space but within a week or two got used to her. This is how they spend most of their time now!!

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Unfortunately, Angus’ health is deteriorating and his arthritis is really hurting him. He is taking Tramadol for pain and I think he’s a little out of it because of it. A young hyperactive puppy is not ideal for him right now. So we try to let Winston play and exercise for a while before we let them interact too much. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum and we need to manage interactions a bit for the benefit of both of them (and us).

Sounds familiar! Bella is getting too old to play the way Sophie wants to. Thankfully Sophie seems to realize this and respect it (most of the time).

So just a thought on Tramadol: You may want to talk to your vet about dosing, or, adjust it yourself. Bella gets put on it when she throws her back out as most dachshunds are prone to do from time to time. They prescribe her 25 mg every 8 hours. When I herniated a disc in my back I was prescribed Tramadol, 50 mg every 8 hours. I weigh exactly 10x what bella weighs. Veterinary scripts for human based meds are often in massive doses. You might find that Angus is still able to get relief from the arthritis without being whacked out of his mind if you can back the dosing off a bit. I'm no vet so please talk to yours, but prescribing 10X the human dosing seems nuts. Instead of 1/2 tablets (25 MG), I chop Bella's into 1/8ths and it still seems to take the edge off until the back pain subsides.

[kscarrol]

^ Good point! Jake gets 25 mg every 12 hours though we should probably drop the dosage a bit and give once every 8 hours... Might give that a shot.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Sounds familiar! Bella is getting too old to play the way Sophie wants to. Thankfully Sophie seems to realize this and respect it (most of the time).

So just a thought on Tramadol: You may want to talk to your vet about dosing, or, adjust it yourself. Bella gets put on it when she throws her back out as most dachshunds are prone to do from time to time. They prescribe her 25 mg every 8 hours. When I herniated a disc in my back I was prescribed Tramadol, 50 mg every 8 hours. I weigh exactly 10x what bella weighs. Veterinary scripts for human based meds are often in massive doses. You might find that Angus is still able to get relief from the arthritis without being whacked out of his mind if you can back the dosing off a bit. I'm no vet so please talk to yours, but prescribing 10X the human dosing seems nuts. Instead of 1/2 tablets (25 MG), I chop Bella's into 1/8ths and it still seems to take the edge off until the back pain subsides.

Good suggestion. He gets 25 mg every 12 hours now. My wife and I have been discussing trying some adjustments and plan to discuss with our vet. He is also not eating well and I know Tramadol can cause an upset stomach. Our vet suggested 1/2 Pepcid pill, which we have been doing. If we cut back on Tramadol, perhaps he will eat better without even needing the Pepcid. I hate giving him all these pills but also hate the idea of not doing all we can to help him.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

^ Good point! Jake gets 25 mg every 12 hours though we should probably drop the dosage a bit and give once every 8 hours... Might give that a shot.

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Good suggestion. He gets 25 mg every 12 hours now. My wife and I have been discussing trying some adjustments and plan to discuss with our vet. He is also not eating well and I know Tramadol can cause an upset stomach. Our vet suggested 1/2 Pepcid pill, which we have been doing. If we cut back on Tramadol, perhaps he will eat better without even needing the Pepcid. I hate giving him all these pills but also hate the idea of not doing all we can to help him.

Good luck, Guys! Again, please do consult your vet as I am certainly not one and your dogs' cases are different than mine. I do know when I was on Tramadol it tore my stomach up. I was only on it for a week and I hated it so I just stopped taking it. What followed was 2 days of what felt like the flu, combined with depression. I remember laying in bed with 3 blankets pulled up to my neck, in multiple layers of sweat pants/thermals, shivering like I had hypothermia yet my head was on fire and sweating. That stuff is no joke and I'll never take it again. So if you do decide to alter the dosage, do talk to your vet and taper down slow if they have been on it for a while. Not sure if dogs go through the same withdrawals that people do.

[Maynard]

Great thread - I really needed something like this today. But am I wrong that I SOOO want to cross post some of these pics here: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1456622

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by Maynard

Great thread - I really needed something like this today. But am I wrong that I SOOO want to cross post some of these pics here: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1456622

Right thread? Don't get me wrong, big fan of the thread you linked!

[Graves]

Beautiful and adorable pup. Got a new guy not long ago, well about a year ago. This Jackson. Pure bred Belgium Malinois from a breeder in West Palm Beach, FL.

As a puppy kissing on the wife and I and the last two at a year old.

[kscarrol]

Love me some Jackson!! Great looking pup!

[positiveions]

Cute pupps everyone. Had a GSD puppy but sold it to my friend. My step daughter cries til this day.
Well at least I still have the cat.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Good luck, Guys! Again, please do consult your vet as I am certainly not one and your dogs' cases are different than mine. I do know when I was on Tramadol it tore my stomach up. I was only on it for a week and I hated it so I just stopped taking it. What followed was 2 days of what felt like the flu, combined with depression. I remember laying in bed with 3 blankets pulled up to my neck, in multiple layers of sweat pants/thermals, shivering like I had hypothermia yet my head was on fire and sweating. That stuff is no joke and I'll never take it again. So if you do decide to alter the dosage, do talk to your vet and taper down slow if they have been on it for a while. Not sure if dogs go through the same withdrawals that people do.

Little update to share...

We spoke to our primary vet and he suggested we stop the Tramadol altogether when we described what was going on. So we did. For one day. But it was obvious he was in pain and even more shaky. So we tried giving him 1/4 pills and they were predictably better than nothing but not as effective as 1/2 pill.

Fast-forward a few weeks and he continued to deteriorate. More staring at the wall and getting stuck In corners. More walking around aimlessly, usually in a circle around something - coffee table, kitchen, etc. Some "spectacular" accidents in the house such that he now wears wraps to at least protect against #1 accidents. Sleeps during day but awake and pacing at night. It has been really tough to watch and deal with - between Angus and a puppy, as well as a master bath remodel in process, and I'm not sure when either my wife or I last had a good night's sleep. We were starting to think we were very close to the end of his road (and unfortunately may still not be too far from it).

Anyway, we took him back to the dog neurologist. When we described his advancing symptoms, she said it sounds like nocturnal dementia, also known as canine cognitive dysfunction (in addition to his arthritis). It is somewhat similar to Alzheimer's in humans, but there is a pill for it (same pill as used to treat Parkinson's for humans). Apparently it helps symptoms in (but doesn't cure) about 50-75% of dogs with this disorder. I never knew this was a condition for dogs, but apparently it pretty common. (We already did other tests to rule out other physical conditions.)

Throughout the deterioration, he has remained pretty much the same personality overall. He doesn't seem unhappy or anxious all the time, which can happen with this condition. So we are going to try the pill and see how he does. Hopefully it helps and we can spend a number of months with him. However, this is tough. We don't want him to suffer because we can't let go, but don't want to give up on him too soon. Very conflicting emotions.

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Little update to share...

We spoke to our primary vet and he suggested we stop the Tramadol altogether when we described what was going on. So we did. For one day. But it was obvious he was in pain and even more shaky. So we tried giving him 1/4 pills and they were predictably better than nothing but not as effective as 1/2 pill.

Fast-forward a few weeks and he continued to deteriorate. More staring at the wall and getting stuck In corners. More walking around aimlessly, usually in a circle around something - coffee table, kitchen, etc. Some "spectacular" accidents in the house such that he know wears wraps to at least protect against #1 accidents. Sleeps during day but awake and pacing at night. It has been really tough to watch and deal with - between Angus and a puppy, as well as a master bath remodel in process, and I'm not sure when either my wife or I last had a good night's sleep. We were starting to think we were very close to the end of his road (and unfortunately may still not be too far from it

Anyway, we took him back to the dog neurologist. When we described his advancing symptoms, she said it sounds like nocturnal dementia, also known as canine cognitive dysfunction (in addition to his arthritis). It is somewhat similar to Alzheimer's in humans, but there is a pill for it (same pill as used to treat Parkinson's for humans). Apparently it helps symptoms in (but doesn't cure) about 50-75% of dogs with this disorder. I never knew this was a condition for dogs, but apparently it pretty common. (We already did other tests to rule out other physical conditions.)

Throughout the deterioration, he has remained pretty much the same personality overall. He doesn't seem unhappy or anxious all the time, which can happen with this condition. So we are going to try the pill and see how he does. Hopefully it helps and we can spend a number of months with him. However, this is tough. We don't want him to suffer because we can't let go, but don't want to give up on him too soon. Very conflicting emotions.

Very helpful Rick!!! I'm going to discuss this with our vet!

[shay2nak]

Awesome!
damn, I want to get a dog so bad.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Graves

Beautiful and adorable pup. Got a new guy not long ago, well about a year ago. This Jackson. Pure bred Belgium Malinois from a breeder in West Palm Beach, FL.

As a puppy kissing on the wife and I and the last two at a year old.

Please tell me you call him Action Jackson! I know that dude has some energy.