[chris719]

Originally Posted by NickyC

If they put the S55 in it, it would be a downgrade from my ///M4.

Meh.

Why would it be a downgrade? It will be lighter, almost certainly handle better, and have more driver feedback being a true sports car.

Don't worry though. It's not getting an S55 or S58. It's getting a B series engine, no way BMW gives an S engine to anyone else. They probably won't even put an S58 into the Z4 themselves.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by chris719

Why would it be a downgrade? It will be lighter, almost certainly handle better, and have more driver feedback being a true sports car.

Don't worry though. It's not getting an S55 or S58. It's getting a B series engine, no way BMW gives an S engine to anyone else. They probably won't even put an S58 into the Z4 themselves.

We'll agree to disagree.

[supra93]

Speaking to Tetsuya Tada

The Geneva show gave us the opportunity to discuss the Supra further with the car's chief engineer, Tetsuya Tada. While Tada and the company are still being cagey at this stage, the chat was encouraging, and helped to illustrate that despite the car's co-development with the BMW Z4, Toyota's effort will be a very different car to its Bavarian counterpart.

How much can you say about the differences between the Z4 and Supra?

Unlike the GT86 co-developed with Subaru, with BMW we first decided on the concept of the car that each company would like to develop separately. Once these concepts were clear we looked into which parts could be common between the two projects - and the number of common parts and elements are much fewer than many may imagine.

Presumably it’s going to share the engine architecture, so how has Toyota developed the engine, suspension etc differently from BMW? Is it a more focused car?

From our side Toyota wanted to make a pure sports car, and BMW has a slightly different direction. Engine calibration is quite different between the two cars. Even if the hardware is the same in some elements, the calibration is completely different - the driving experience will be very different to the Z4.

Which other models have been benchmarked, and is there any reference to previous versions of the Supra?

We looked into Porsches - the 911 for example. As for previous Supras, we’re aware that there’s a huge fanbase for previous Supras, so we’ve interviewed them to hear their expectations before we started the project. People told us they wanted a six-cylinder engine and a front-engined, rear-drive layout.

Will it be offered with a manual gearbox?

We’re still in discussion about these details, so we don’t know what the final production car will use yet.

Is there any likelihood of a hybrid powertrain?

We are considering not only hybrid but also other powertrain tech, EVs, fuel cells etc. We’re looking at all these possibilities for our future sports cars.

The Supra will be sold under Gazoo Racing rather than as a Toyota. Given the love for the Supra as a Toyota product, why the branding difference?

It’s not our intention to change the brand, but we created GR as a dedicated sports car brand under Toyota, so it makes sense for all Toyota’s future models to be sold under the GR brand.

How much of the GT86 development has assisted in developing the Supra?

In terms of the number of engineers just a few, but we’ve taken on new engineers too, and the GT86 itself has been a significant factor in allowing us to develop the Supra. The reason we took on new members for this project was because most engineers dream of developing a sports car in their life, so we wanted to give this opportunity to our younger engineers.

Have you taken tuning into account during the development of the new car? Will there be aspects people can customise?

Just as with the 86, we have the same message with the new car - we’d really like people to tune the car themselves.

Will there be any factory modifications, or are you letting the aftermarket take over?

It’s difficult to define what is a brand or maker-approved modification. It was a concern we had with the GT86, but once it was launched on the market we learned that users on the market have quite high standards and respect the car, so the aftermarket developed on its own. I hope the same will happen with the Supra. With the GT86 we didn’t have to interfere too much into the market and what the users were doing - so as a brand we’re not likely to interfere with the market too much either.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/int...suya-tada.787/

[supra93]

[hellrotm]

Presumably it’s going to share the engine architecture, so how has Toyota developed the engine, suspension etc differently from BMW? Is it a more focused car?

From our side Toyota wanted to make a pure sports car, and BMW has a slightly different direction. Engine calibration is quite different between the two cars. Even if the hardware is the same in some elements, the calibration is completely different - the driving experience will be very different to the Z4.

In other words it is getting the B58. Base Z4 is not getting a S engine.

Will it be offered with a manual gearbox?

We’re still in discussion about these details, so we don’t know what the final production car will use yet.

So...no. No reason to keep that a secret, either they had one in development or not. Sounds like they are hearing the no-manual outrage and they don't want to kill the car before it arrives. If anything the car will launch auto only. With possibility of manual down the road, if demand is there.

[hellrotm]

Give this car 50:50 weight distribution, GT86 handling/steering, 400hp minimum, manual gearbox...then they will have a winner.

[eluded]

S58? Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

B58 variant -- 355hp maybe with Overboost future.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

In other words it is getting the B58. Base Z4 is not getting a S engine.

Say whaaa? Why would BMW put an Sxx ///M engine in a base car?

#CrayCray

IMHO, 335ish HP will be plenty for the Supra, especially if its tuned for sports-car use. Think GT86 with twice the HP to move about 300 more pounds. C'mon. That's likely to keep up with, if not stonk, just about anything built with a sticker price short of $160k.

Also, remember: This is gonna be a GR Supra, not a Toyota Supra. This is TMC's latest opportunity to break a line of products free from the mother marque. It did just that really, really well with Lexus and Scion. I have absolutely no doubt it will do it just as well with GR.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Say whaaa? Why would BMW put an Sxx ///M engine in a base car?

#CrayCray

If you were not following. Early article posted said the Supra was getting an S engine.

The next article referencing the base Z4, clearly shows it is not. Hence the obvious comment of the Z4 not getting a S engine, therefore Supra is getting a B58 variant.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by eluded

S58? Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

B58 variant -- 355hp maybe with Overboost future.

Tell that to Top Gear and their insider info.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

IMHO, 335ish HP will be plenty for the Supra, especially if its tuned for sports-car use. Think GT86 with twice the HP to move about 300 more pounds. C'mon. That's likely to keep up with, if not stonk, just about anything built with a sticker price short of $160k.

Did they add $100k to the price of a Corvette, Mustang or Camaro? All of those will make a 335hp BMW small on a track or highway.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Did they add $100k to the price of a Corvette, Mustang or Camaro? All of those will make a 335hp BMW small on a track or highway.

Hence the phrase "likely to keep up with".

If the Supra has the balance and toss-ability of the GT86 -- which, IMHO, no BMW can compare to, even the M2 (which weighs some 350 pounds more than the Supra is likely to) -- then yeah, I'm thinking it could keep up with those cars on everything but straights.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Tetsuda Tada's already revealed that the Supra's benchmark has been Porsche -- probably the 981 and 982 Cayman S. If it handles like those cars do ... whoo doggie ...

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Hence the phrase "likely to keep up with".

If the Supra has the balance and toss-ability of the GT86 -- which, IMHO, no BMW can compare to, even the M2 (which weighs some 350 pounds more than the Supra is likely to) -- then yeah, I'm thinking it could keep up with those cars on everything but straights.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Tetsuda Tada's already revealed that the Supra's benchmark has been Porsche -- probably the 981 and 982 Cayman S. If it handles like those cars do ... whoo doggie ...

Toyota made the fuel injection for the GT86 and probably the dash clock, but Subaru did the lion's share of engineering on the chassis.

Just as BMW will do the lion's share for this car. I'd love to see BMW and Toyota by proxy offer something competitive to the 718, but I'd be absolutely shocked if they pull that off.

I loved my E36/8, it was very different than the Boxster and of course preceded the Cayman. But while it was more fun at the track, it couldn't touch those cars when comparably driven. Same went for the E86 and we won't even discuss the hot mess of the E89.

I'm sure this and the Z4 will appeal to people, but it almost certainly won't be because they're freakishly fast or put up amazing N'Ring, Lightning Lap or local track times.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I'm sure this and the Z4 will appeal to people, but it almost certainly won't be because they're freakishly fast or put up amazing N'Ring, Lightning Lap or local track times.

I would normally agree with you. But I think the X factor here is the re-branding. If TMC thinks enough of the project to spin off a completely different brand with it as the initial offering, then it's got to be doing what it can to make it special.

Think about how special the LS400 was. Think about how special the xA, xB, and tC were, in terms of what Scion aimed to achieve. I don't think Toyota, in all of its demi-holistic, uber-calculated corporate master planning safeness, would chance a new brand with a car that would simply be a variant -- as the FR-S/GT86 was. There'll be more to it than that.

I just have a feeling this thing's going to up the game.

[Refined]

Even if this car comes with only 335hp, you know it will easily get over 500 with a turbo swap and flash for under 10k. The aftermarket for this car is going to be huge. Toyota said that they had aftermarket tunability in mind when they made the car.

I'm really starting to consider selling the m4 and going crazy modifying one of these into a street legal racecar, something really special and unique. I'm talking money is no option modification...

This might be my last year in a BMW.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I would normally agree with you. But I think the X factor here is the re-branding. If TMC thinks enough of the project to spin off a completely different brand with it as the initial offering, then it's got to be doing what it can to make it special.

Think about how special the LS400 was. Think about how special the xA, xB, and tC were, in terms of what Scion aimed to achieve. I don't think Toyota, in all of its demi-holistic, uber-calculated corporate master planning safeness, would chance a new brand with a car that would simply be a variant -- as the FR-S/GT86 was. There'll be more to it than that.

I just have a feeling this thing's going to up the game.

Meh. Scion has the original xB and really nothing else. Then they let the brand wither and die with borrowed Subarus and Mazdas. And Gazoo Racing sounds awfully stupid in English.

I've tried to buy a BRZ a number of times. Test drove them, borrowed a friends for a week, just never loved it. A Miata remains more fun, faster and more involving. An automatic one has to be a punishment for something.

I'm just not sure BMW knows how to make fun cars anymore, and Toyota only has a few sprinkles of such a thing in their long history. Adding a new brand with no legacy isn't going to help.

I'll admit that the all automatic all the time thing has me completely uninterested in the Kazoo, but I'd love to see BMW get back on track with the Z4, I'm routing for this car, I just don't see it being a 718 killer.

[Red Bread]

Have we discussed if the Great Gazoo will have an honest to god mechanical LSD?

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I'll admit that the all automatic all the time thing has me completely uninterested in the Kazoo, but I'd love to see BMW get back on track with the Z4, I'm routing for this car, I just don't see it being a 718 killer.

The new Z4 won't threaten the Boxster much. BMW will try to pass it off as somewhat of a competitor, but it will almost certainly initially be the 'softer, more plush' version of the platform until (or, if) ///M gets a hold of it. I think we're all hoping for a 'new Z4M', but it may not happen -- and if it does, I sense it'll be a very limited-production, semi-experimental model, i.e., a hybrid. There's already aural evidence that a hybrid was one of the Supra/coupe test mules ... and a hybrid is decidedly not tune-able, which is a primary goal of the GR version ...

... so, ergo ... yep: An ///M hybrid. Bank on it.

I hate Gazoo Racing, too -- and there was talk months ago that the U.S. would be the only market that wouldn't use Gazoo as the Supra's marque. I've heard from sources within TMC HQ here that the decision to go forward with it here was contingent on calling it GR, not Gazoo Racing. That I could live with.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

The new Z4 won't threaten the Boxster much. BMW will try to pass it off as somewhat of a competitor, but it will almost certainly initially be the 'softer, more plush' version of the platform until (or, if) ///M gets a hold of it. I think we're all hoping for a 'new Z4M', but it may not happen -- and if it does, I sense it'll be a very limited-production, semi-experimental model, i.e., a hybrid. There's already aural evidence that a hybrid was one of the Supra/coupe test mules ... and a hybrid is decidedly not tune-able, which is a primary goal of the GR version ...

... so, ergo ... yep: An ///M hybrid. Bank on it.

I hate Gazoo Racing, too -- and there was talk months ago that the U.S. would be the only market that wouldn't use Gazoo as the Supra's marque. I've heard from sources within TMC HQ here that the decision to go forward with it here was contingent on calling it GR, not Gazoo Racing. That I could live with.

Very happy with their decision to call it GR instead. I don't care about the heritage, the name has to sound cool in the modern era.

[supra93]

An online petition was started for a manual transmission.

https://www.change.org/p/toyota-moto...edium=copyLink

[Mingwan]

Originally Posted by supra93

An online petition was started for a manual transmission.

https://www.change.org/p/toyota-moto...edium=copyLink

I was on the Supra forums a few days ago and someone was saying a petition with 10k signatures would be considered enough.

[eluded]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

I was on the Supra forums a few days ago and someone was saying a petition with 10k signatures would be considered enough.

Haha. Funny. Now if you got 10,000 people to put down a down payment for a new MANUAL supra… Then maybe Toyota would listen.