[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by eluded

Haha. Funny. Now if you got 10,000 people to put down a down payment for a new MANUAL supra… Then maybe Toyota would listen.

I dunno about that.

This car's being built at Magna Steyr, which now has a capacity of 200k a year -- double what it was two years ago. A big part of that expansion is the creation of the Z4/Supra production line, which is reported to have a 60k/year max capacity for both models combined. If a third of potential buyers of a 30k-per-year model said they would order a manual, I think that's plenty to force TMC's hand -- and maybe even BMW's -- to give Getrag a call.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

If a third of potential buyers of a 30k-per-year model said they would order a manual, I think that's plenty to force TMC's hand -- and maybe even BMW's -- to give Getrag a call.

I think he was making the point that it would take more than a "me too" signature to register as a market opportunity. When you consider that BMW and Toyota had years to build the business case, it figures that they already crunched the data and determined that there would not be enough people willing to actually plunk down their cash for the MT to make it profitable. As such, a petition isn't likely to be a good way to motivate a change in plans.

[supra93]

Report by Automotive News is saying there will be less than 10k units a year.

Sales will be relatively small at fewer than 10,000 a year.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...ng-geneva-show

[Mingwan]

#ambiguity

According to Tetsuya Tada, the Supra will differ from the Z4 in that the Supra is intended to be a “pure sports car.” Toyota is aware that there is a “huge fan base for previous Supras,” and they’ve interviewed this fan base to get an understanding of their expectations of the new Supra before starting the project.

In a separate interview, Tada said that, “a manual doesn’t seem important (paraphrased).” Again, I find this hard to believe if the statement was based on the same fan base Toyota used to outline the expectations of the new Supra (What did they use? The same market research group for the RCF?).

Toyota expects buyers of the new Supra to modify their cars similarly to the GT86. In fact, a few engineers used to develop the GT86 are working on the new Supra. Toyota is trying to convey the same message with the Supra as they did with the GT86: tuner culture, pure sports car experience.

So I guess if Toyota’s target market is from the GT86 crowd (I understand there’s a big price difference), I’m not sure why a manual option remains a mystery. Two sources I’ve seen say the take rate for a manual GT86/FRS/BRZ (whatever) is anywhere from 40 to 55%. Yet “a manual option doesn’t seem important to prospective buyers,” in reference to the older Supra fan base and GT86 buyers.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

#ambiguity

According to Tetsuya Tada, the Supra will differ from the Z4 in that the Supra is intended to be a “pure sports car.” Toyota is aware that there is a “huge fan base for previous Supras,” and they’ve interviewed this fan base to get an understanding of their expectations of the new Supra before starting the project.

In a separate interview, Tada said that, “a manual doesn’t seem important (paraphrased).” Again, I find this hard to believe if the statement was based on the same fan base Toyota used to outline the expectations of the new Supra (What did they use? The same market research group for the RCF?).

Toyota expects buyers of the new Supra to modify their cars similarly to the GT86. In fact, a few engineers used to develop the GT86 are working on the new Supra. Toyota is trying to convey the same message with the Supra as they did with the GT86: tuner culture, pure sports car experience.

So I guess if Toyota’s target market is from the GT86 crowd (I understand there’s a big price difference), I’m not sure why a manual option remains a mystery. Two sources I’ve seen say the take rate for a manual GT86/FRS/BRZ (whatever) is anywhere from 40 to 55%. Yet “a manual option doesn’t seem important to prospective buyers,” in reference to the older Supra fan base and GT86 buyers.

Sounds like Toyota still sucks

[supra93]

Full gallery in link below.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/mos...h-19-2018.803/

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by supra93

Full gallery in link below.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/mos...h-19-2018.803/

Before ANY of you scream about the small-diameter rims, PLEASE note that both the front and the rear rotors fill the entire open diameter of the wheels on that car. Besides this being a winter-testing mule, that tells me two things:

- The car will come with 18-inch wheels in base trim, and will likely have 19- and 20-inch options
- The large rear rotor SCREAMS regen braking to me -- which, ergo, means a hybrid powertrain.

I'm tellin' y'all ... This car will change the game.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Before ANY of you scream about the small-diameter rims, PLEASE note that both the front and the rear rotors fill the entire open diameter of the wheels on that car. Besides this being a winter-testing mule, that tells me two things:

- The car will come with 18-inch wheels in base trim, and will likely have 19- and 20-inch options
- The large rear rotor SCREAMS regen braking to me -- which, ergo, means a hybrid powertrain.

I'm tellin' y'all ... This car will change the game.

I welcome smaller wheels, it means less expensive tires for the track.

[Ultimateone]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

I welcome smaller wheels, it means less expensive tires for the track.

Thats just a test car, no way those are the wheels

[supra93]

The contract manufacturer also handles G-Class, 5 Series, and E-Pace production, with I-Pace about to hit the assembly line.

Austrian local newspaper Kleine Zeitun reported in May 2016 that the next-generation BMW Z4 (back then it was known as the Z5) and the revived Toyota Supra would be built by Magna Steyr in Graz, Austria. Fast forward to present day, Automotive News Europe has heard basically the exact same thing, though Magna International got in touch with ANE and refused to either deny or confirm the plan:

“No announcement has been made by BMW or Toyota and we are therefore unable to comment.”

Both BMW’s soft-top roadster and Toyota’s coupe are expected to be built together at the same plant where the Mercedes G-Class has been in production since 1979. In recent times, Magna Steyr kicked off production of the BMW 5 Series and the Jaguar E-Pace, while the fully electric I-Pace is about to hit the assembly line as well. In total, the Austrian contract manufacturer estimates it will put together approximately 200,000 cars this year.

We still don’t know when the Z4 and Supra will actually enter production, but there are reasons to believe the BMW will be the first seeing as how an official reveal has been confirmed to take place this summer. As for the much-hyped Supra revival, latest reports are indicating it won’t debut in production form until the beginning of next year, specifically in January at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit. Both models have been previewed, with the Z4 being teased last year in August by a namesake concept at Pebble Beach in California during the Monterey Car Week while the resurrected Supra showed up in concept form as the GR Supra Racing a few weeks ago in Geneva.

The decision to build the cars outside BMW and Toyota factories makes sense taking into account both the Z4 and Supra will be niche models in current times when demand for sports cars is declining. Retooling a factory to accommodate production probably wouldn’t be worth the effort and there’s also the possibility that the assembly plants are already running at full throttle, with no manufacturing capacity to spare.

https://www.motor1.com/news/236633/s...yr-production/

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Ultimateone

Thats just a test car, no way those are the wheels

I agree. Those wheels are actually BMW wheels, used also on the Z4 test car.

But it proves at the minimum 18's will fit with that caliper setup.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

I agree. Those wheels are actually BMW wheels, used also on the Z4 test car.

But it proves at the minimum 18's will fit with that caliper setup.

Great point, hence why I made my first observation above.

Ultimateone :

Sigh.

This is what my post above attempted to alleviate. We know those aren't the stock wheels. But those winter-testing 'mule' wheels reveal far more than is immediately obvious.

[supra93]

RyleyMA61 made this to help people get past the camo on the window and winter wheels.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

B

I'm tellin' y'all ... This car will change the game.

By the time you can buy one, it will be obsolete. What exactly will ti change?

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

By the time you can buy one, it will be obsolete.

Wanna bet? This isn't (recent) Honda. Besides: Define 'obsolete'.

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

What exactly will ti change?

See my posts (way) above. I suspect a hybrid powertrain on the GR (and it's likely on the BMW, too, eventually) right off the bat in at least one Supra model.

Toyota doesn't mess around when it creates a new brand, as it's doing here. From the Prius to the TS050 LMP1 endurance car (and the Gazoo GR Super Sport concept slated to replace it), it has immense pedigree with hybrids, as I'm sure you're aware. Toyota doesn't race unless it has a direct trickle-down effect to consumer cars. At least one hybrid version of a Supra mule has been heard in multiple locations. That rear brake rotor is a huge tell. And both Toyota and BMW are moving rapidly toward across-the-model-line electrification.

You tell me if a $70k two-seat coupe that weighs a tad north of 3,000 pounds and develops 400hp+ (335hp from the blown six plus whatever electrification will provide) with enough low-end torque to do 0-60 in 3 seconds flat is game changing. 'Cause that's what I'm anticipating with a GR Supra hybrid.

[Red Bread]

Snicker. Add 1k pounds, a full second and two plus years. Will not be impressive.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Wanna bet? This isn't (recent) Honda. Besides: Define 'obsolete'.



See my posts (way) above. I suspect a hybrid powertrain on the GR (and it's likely on the BMW, too, eventually) right off the bat in at least one Supra model.

Toyota doesn't mess around when it creates a new brand, as it's doing here. From the Prius to the TS050 LMP1 endurance car (and the Gazoo GR Super Sport concept slated to replace it), it has immense pedigree with hybrids, as I'm sure you're aware. Toyota doesn't race unless it has a direct trickle-down effect to consumer cars. At least one hybrid version of a Supra mule has been heard in multiple locations. That rear brake rotor is a huge tell. And both Toyota and BMW are moving rapidly toward across-the-model-line electrification.

A Prius is your benchmark for bringing the Supra back super awesome?

You tell me if a $70k two-seat coupe that weighs a tad north of 3,000 pounds and develops 400hp+ (335hp from the blown six plus whatever electrification will provide) with enough low-end torque to do 0-60 in 3 seconds flat is game changing. 'Cause that's what I'm anticipating with a GR Supra hybrid.

It's not. I'll go buy a C7 Vette or a myriad of other sweet machines..

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Snicker. Add 1k pounds, a full second and two plus years. Will not be impressive.

Yeah stupid idea.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by wdb

Yeah stupid

The 918 made 400 hp?!

I'm all for the Supra and Z4 doing well. But current details say the base four cylinder will be over 3k pounds, so upping it to the six and adding any amount of batteries isn't going to leave it being light-ish.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

A Prius is your benchmark for bringing the Supra back super awesome?

Dude, what the hell ever. See the post below yours with a certain P-car. It's the technology, not the platform.

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

It's not. I'll go buy a C7 Vette or a myriad of other sweet machines.

That's your prerogative. Thing is, even the 'vette will be a hybrid sooner rather than later. Why else is Chevy totally moving to a mid-engine layout by 2021 that will alienate the vast majority of 'vette fanboys?

Think about it. Don't knee-jerk. THINK about it.

Red Bread : OK: That weight's a stretch; I grant you that. Even at, say, 3,400lbs (I doubt a car that small will even approach 4k pounds under Tada, even with a hybrid powertrain. Even the Prius weighs just 3k pounds with all 'dem batteries), a GR Supra hybrid could be massively quick.

[Red Bread]

Isn't the LC Hybrid 4400 pounds? Toyota will find a way to make this lame.

[NickyC]

Let it go guys, I owned and loved my MR2 Turbos and Supra MKIVs back in the day but those glory days are over. Toyota is not the same company they used to be, they freaking suck. I see no reason at all to put much faith in this car until we really see the numbers and a finished project. Everything I'm seeing right now just looks like a lot of hype, and the amount of time they've spent on this car and the thing is STILL IN CAMO, tells me all I need to know really.

I would love to be dead wrong on this of course.