[supra93]

[WestRace]

Here is my dilemma. I currently have an E46 M3. The Supra should have very similar hp to the M3 while the M3 should offer better driving experience. Why should I sell my M3 and get the Supra? The only reason I can think of is better reliability since I am hesitant to take the M3 for a long trip.

[jv004]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

McLaren put a BMW engine in the F1 and nobody complained about a middle finger to the McLaren fan base or complained about power. This is a weak argument against the new Supra.

Attachment 2005695

It's like all the people saying that BMW lost it's way with the F8x because it didn't have a bespoke engine. Yet the F8x has been the most successful M car to date. I think the new Supra will prove to be the same.

What the heck? You're comparing apples and oranges, there were only very few McLaren F1's built, and only those 1% of people could buy them. Plus different times, the internet and the media wasn't as prominent as it is now. You didn't hear the complaints as loudly as you do in today's media world.
Also I'm not saying the BMW engine is bad, BMW has been putting out great engines as of late.

[hybris]

Originally Posted by WestRace

Here is my dilemma. I currently have an E46 M3. The Supra should have very similar hp to the M3 while the M3 should offer better driving experience. Why should I sell my M3 and get the Supra? The only reason I can think of is better reliability since I am hesitant to take the M3 for a long trip.

The Supra will be easily tunable way beyond the E46 M3, and why do you think a 2020 Supra (based on the BMW Z4) will be a worse driving experience than a 15 year old M3?

And you will get a brand new car (as you mention reliability). So the main negative part is the price I guess, not counting the fact that many will probably argue that the E46 M3 is a better looking car.

[Bluer2]

[hellrotm]

^
...and the current GTR and NSX are 2-3x the cost.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

^
...and the current GTR and NSX are 2-3x the cost.

And an STI only makes 310 in 2019

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

^
...and the current GTR and NSX are 2-3x the cost.

Well the moment the Supra is released it will have sold more than all the 2g NSX to date

[supra93]

That meme is still missing 5hp

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by Bluer2

You realize the NSX and GTR are not even the same class of car as the Supra right?

The Supra's class and competition was : 300ZX / 3000GT / RX7

The GTR & NSX were a level above as far as class of car.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by QUiKSR20

You realize the NSX and GTR are not even the same class of car as the Supra right?

The Supra's class and competition was : 300ZX / 3000GT / RX7

The GTR & NSX were a level above as far as class of car.

Not to mention that all Japanese hot rods made "280hp" for a very, very long time due to legal and insurance regs that forced them to under-report true output.

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by QUiKSR20

You realize the NSX and GTR are not even the same class of car as the Supra right?

The Supra's class and competition was : 300ZX / 3000GT / RX7

The GTR & NSX were a level above as far as class of car.

And yet those two 'level above' cars had less power then the supra. Now the supra has been left far, far behind by the cars it once surpassed. I think it's a relevant point.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by wdb

Not to mention that all Japanese hot rods made "280hp" for a very, very long time due to legal and insurance regs that forced them to under-report true output.

This is true

Originally Posted by N54Yankee

And yet those two 'level above' cars had less power then the supra. Now the supra has been left far, far behind by the cars it once surpassed. I think it's a relevant point.

Well the NSX was more of an exotic, Horsepower wasnt its biggest feature ( It was naturally aspirated ) While the GTR was listed as 280hp that was due to a Japanese law for cars in Japan. The Supra in America was 320hp but the GTR in Japan was also known to dyno over 280WHP ( 320hp or more in reality ).

[mirob]

Originally Posted by WestRace

Here is my dilemma. I currently have an E46 M3. The Supra should have very similar hp to the M3 while the M3 should offer better driving experience. Why should I sell my M3 and get the Supra? The only reason I can think of is better reliability since I am hesitant to take the M3 for a long trip.

The MKV Supra would reap your soul in a straight line. Plus while the HP is close the torque is on another planet. I've had an E46 M3 for years and stock E9X 335i's would beat up on it. The B58 is just in another league altogether. Yeah, I've seen vids on YT suggesting otherwise.

So while the M3 looks better - subjective, the Supra will likely drive better - except steering feel. So keeping the M3 would save you money initially, which some of it you'll spend on maintenance eventually...

[supra93]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/dai...rift-car.1679/

[WestRace]

Originally Posted by mirob

I've had an E46 M3 for years and stock E9X 335i's would beat up on it.

They should be very close unless the 335 is tuned. The turbo may have a jump but the E46 will pull away up top.

By the way, what's the weight of the Supra?

[mirob]

Originally Posted by WestRace

They should be very close unless the 335 is tuned. The turbo may have a jump but the E46 will pull away up top.

I actually had the opposite experience. Girlfriend (now wife) had an E90 335i and friend had an E92 335i, both automatics. Mine was SMG. I'd get a solid jump from the dig vs both (about a car), but by 50mph we'd be almost even and at 80mph they would be ahead by a half a car at least. I had wider tires than stock and these were consistent results. I was pissed.

IDK, just my experience, others will vary. I'm also at about 3700 ft. elevation in the TX summer so that hurts performance of an N/A motor as well.

Originally Posted by WestRace

By the way, what's the weight of the Supra?

I think they are about 3400-ish lbs. which is right around the neighborhood of the M3. I believe my M3 was quoted at about 3415 lbs. with the SMG, manuals are a little lighter.

[supra93]

Another 2JZ swap coming.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by jv004

It's actually not bad on looks, I think most of the hate is because of the BMW engine. Think that was a mistake on toyota's end, a big middle finger to their fanbase and sports car crowd. If they would of developed a nice engine since after 1998 then the reveal would of been much better received and more powerful. This feels more like a cash grab attempt.

If they didn't source an inline 6 from BMW, WHO could they possibly source an inline 6 from?

Or would the fanbase rather they put in a V-6 from their run of the mill cars?

Anyone suggesting that Toyota should have built a bespoken engine for the new Supra is smoking crack.

[Shiza]

Originally Posted by The HACK

If they didn't source an inline 6 from BMW, WHO could they possibly source an inline 6 from?

Or would the fanbase rather they put in a V-6 from their run of the mill cars?

Anyone suggesting that Toyota should have built a bespoken engine for the new Supra is smoking crack.

I don't mind a BMW engine but why is the idea of Toyota creating an engine specific to the new Supra such a crazy idea?


You'd think they saved enough money having BMW do most of the R&D that they could afford it

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Shiza

I don't mind a BMW engine but why is the idea of Toyota creating an engine specific to the new Supra such a crazy idea?

You'd think they saved enough money having BMW do most of the R&D that they could afford it

Do you REALLY think that manufacturers just wave a magic wand and an engine just appears?

There's a reason why the B58 appears in nearly EVERY SINGLE BMW line-up. There's a reason why the INLINE 6 architecture has been in BMW's family of engines since the beginning of time. The engine is the HEART of a car. It is by far and away the most complex part of any moving vehicle that uses the internal combustion process. There's a reason why cars with bespoke engines typically cost north of 6 figures, and the first of those 6 figures don't usually start with a 1.

Anyone thinking that the new Supra is going to be a commercial success at $200,000 plus is also smoking crack.

Name me another car, in HISTORY of cars, that has had a brand new, completely designed from the ground up engine, that does not use some sort of existing architecture that the company already use.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Do you REALLY think that manufacturers just wave a magic wand and an engine just appears?

There's a reason why the B58 appears in nearly EVERY SINGLE BMW line-up. There's a reason why the INLINE 6 architecture has been in BMW's family of engines since the beginning of time. The engine is the HEART of a car. It is by far and away the most complex part of any moving vehicle that uses the internal combustion process. There's a reason why cars with bespoke engines typically cost north of 6 figures, and the first of those 6 figures don't usually start with a 1.

Anyone thinking that the new Supra is going to be a commercial success at $200,000 plus is also smoking crack.

Name me another car, in HISTORY of cars, that has had a brand new, completely designed from the ground up engine, that does not use some sort of existing architecture that the company already use.

1999 F20C
2.0L 9000rpm
11.7 compression
250 n/a HP @8600 rpm
Only available in the Honda s2000
Held the n/a specific output for 10 years
Bespoke enough for you ?
$29k



If Toyota wanted to they could
The Supra was never really what they wanted to sell
It's the nx300 and Corollas and rav4s and CHRs
Supra brings people into show rooms and they drive home in the Camry