[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

What do you think a 6000 battery powered "self driving" car is? I call them weapons of mass destruction.

And you really believe that humans can drive better than automated cars? Even with bad tech I'll take the computers over the idiots.

[Onizukachan]

The computers ARE idiots.

[M4Tejas]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

How about BEEP BEEP BEEP GTFO of the left lane????

Left lane idiots are so much worse than speeders. We could probably cure 80% of traffic in most areas of this country if people would just stay the F out of the left lane.

Better yet, have them get a real license, you know, the kind where annually you have to pass a...

- written test
- driving test
- eye test
- hearing test
- spatial awareness test
- drug test

Get more people off the road that can't actually drive, that's your solution to everything from insurance premiums to the condition of roadways and global warming.

Oh yeah, and burn the license of the people drinking and driving. Never let them get in a car again.

Sorry, was that a rant? Oops. lol

No but you view multiple, 100's of YouTube videos for "hot pursuit" police chase where they pass on all sides and endanger the lives of 100's of people during these fiasco encounters. Several people got critically injured here in Fort Worth during one of these fucked up events.

I "Back the Blue" but not these type(s) of police activity. Several officers feel the same here in town. You can get them other ways......multiple other ways without endangering the public at large.

In Germany you "do not" pass on the right. This is an American thing. The Germans are courteous and will move over. You have "flash to pass" on your BMW, which 99 percent of Americans have no idea what this is, and subsequently flip you off, go into immediate "road rage mode" or shoot you in Texas. On your stalk, the momentary contact high beam switch, to utilize what is commonly called "torch lights" in Germany. We were tearing up the Autobahn in 74..........

[M4Tejas]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Nothing California mandates is ever good. The federal government gets lucky once in a while, but CA just misses every time.

The good news is they want the system GPS based so it in theory could also immediately shut off when you leave CA. I'd be ok with that.

When at VAFB Cali, 68 to 72 dad had a 440 six pack Road Runner. DPS (edit CHP ) was out on the side of the freeway in front of VJHS (across from the main gate) waving people over. You stopped or biker CHiPS came after you. (No Estrada) Pop your hood.....they were looking for visual cues. Now keep in mind this was in about 70. Air pumps (oxygenate the fuel mix?) were the new big thang......and your PCV valve came into fruition in about '66.


I can still see Rancho Mirage back in my dreams though....just about had it with D/FWorthless.....

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher

Did they source the actual bill?

You mean did is pass? It's California the home of stupid ideas, Not yet so you still have time to yell at your representative if you live in California.

"California Senate Bill 961 (SB 961) was passed by a 22-13 vote this week requiring that 50 percent of new vehicles manufactured or sold in California must have passive speed limiters installed by 2029. By 2032, that percentage increases to 100 percent.
A passive speed limiter is a system that warns drivers with audible and visual signals when their speed exceeds the posted speed limit by more than 10 miles per hour. SB 961 applies to all trucks, buses and passenger vehicles manufactured or sold in the state."
This bill must now pass the Assembly by August 31. If it is passed and becomes law, it will make California the first state in the nation with a passive speed limiter requirement.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a6...limiters-bill/

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

And you really believe that humans can drive better than automated cars? Even with bad tech I'll take the computers over the idiots.

Computers are only as good as the humans that develop them. In my experience with software engineers and programmers, they're idiots who don't think about "how could this go wrong" at all.

So yeah, I'd take an idiot driver that has a chance to get lucky over a computer programmed by idiots. I think driver aids are good, but nothing that helps to the point that it lets the driver be "hands off" or not take responsibility for driving.

[Car-Addicted]

The only way autonomous driving has a chance of working is if every vehicle on the road is on the same system and that is never going to happen and way to Nineteen Eighty-Four for me. The Jetsons was a cartoon not a user manual.

[freakystyly]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Computers are only as good as the humans that develop them. In my experience with software engineers and programmers, they're idiots who don't think about "how could this go wrong" at all.

So yeah, I'd take an idiot driver that has a chance to get lucky over a computer programmed by idiots. I think driver aids are good, but nothing that helps to the point that it lets the driver be "hands off" or not take responsibility for driving.

Even the most incompetent driver has a self preservation instinct that a computer program does not. It's a poor argument for some drivers we see out there, but we typically don't want to die.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Computers are only as good as the humans that develop them.

I mean, really, did you just write that?

A human developed a calculator, and you're telling me that the average person calculates numbers as good as a calculator.

Your statement makes no sense whatsoever.

Computers are vastly better than humans at just about everything, and it's no different with driving...and they'll only get better (unlike humans). If you could fill the world with automated cars with TODAY'S tech there would be a massive decrease in the number of road deaths that same day.

Having said that, it's not people's fault, really, it's the system. We don't want good drivers on the road (for whatever reason), so there are more accidents, more deaths, more insurance, more cars, more bad roads, more greenhouse gases, the list goes on ad infinitum.

You have 2 choices:

1. Make people better drivers.
2. Take people off the road.

I'm betting that #2 is the vastly better solution with a vastly better probability.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by freakystyly

Even the most incompetent driver has a self preservation instinct that a computer program does not.

Wait till the computers decide we are vermin and must be extinguished!
Maximum Overdrive?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

I mean, really, did you just write that?

A human developed a calculator, and you're telling me that the average person calculates numbers as good as a calculator.

Your statement makes no sense whatsoever.

Computers are vastly better than humans at just about everything, and it's no different with driving...and they'll only get better (unlike humans). If you could fill the world with automated cars with TODAY'S tech there would be a massive decrease in the number of road deaths that same day.

Having said that, it's not people's fault, really, it's the system. We don't want good drivers on the road (for whatever reason), so there are more accidents, more deaths, more insurance, more cars, more bad roads, more greenhouse gases, the list goes on ad infinitum.

You have 2 choices:

1. Make people better drivers.
2. Take people off the road.

I'm betting that #2 is the vastly better solution with a vastly better probability.

Sorry, you'll have to qualify that statement. You can say it all you want, but it needs to be qualified with specifics.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Sorry, you'll have to qualify that statement. You can say it all you want, but it needs to be qualified with specifics.

Sure, in ergonomics we have signal detection theory and things like hit rate, false positives, false negatives, etc. We test human operators on a variety of tasks and its not even close, machines almost eliminate the errors that are all over the place with humans. This is one of the reasons for production line automation, the machine can do the same thing 10,000 times with no errors. The human cannot. In my training and education, we try to remove the human from the process, its the most effective way to increase safety. I can provide you with some titles to read when I get home, but ergonomics is literally the human/mechanical interface, where I did a vast amount of my schooling.

[Ugly Kar]

My HUD already gives me numbers in red when I exceed the speed limit so that's nothing new. But it won't stop there. We're headed to the programmed not to exceed the speed limit state, which means you won't even be able to pass.

In honesty though, I think I'd rather have a computer driving the car at the next stop sign than Pedro with no license who doesn't know the difference between P & D.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by RM7

Sure, in ergonomics we have signal detection theory and things like hit rate, false positives, false negatives, etc. We test human operators on a variety of tasks and its not even close, machines almost eliminate the errors that are all over the place with humans. This is one of the reasons for production line automation, the machine can do the same thing 10,000 times with no errors. The human cannot. In my training and education, we try to remove the human from the process, its the most effective way to increase safety. I can provide you with some titles to read when I get home, but ergonomics is literally the human/mechanical interface, where I did a vast amount of my schooling.

I have no argument with automation of repetitive motion/repetitive process activities such as production line manufacturing (my BS is in Manufacturing Engineering).

Driving is not a repetitive motion/repetitive process activity. Most automobile accidents are avoidable and are the result of poor/inadequate training or poor behavior, and rarely mechanical failure.

I asked the OP to substantiate his statement regarding automated vehicle with specifics. He stated the automated driving technology as advanced in 2024 if enacted (in a single day) would reduce human fatalities. I do not agree with that statement.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

And you really believe that humans can drive better than automated cars? Even with bad tech I'll take the computers over the idiots.

I had friends who work in programming - computers are dumb, and at best are only as good as the person behind.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

And you really believe that humans can drive better than automated cars? Even with bad tech I'll take the computers over the idiots.

What current automated (ADAS) car can drive in the rain, at night, on a road under construction where the lane markings are blacked out then moved and painted white on (dimpled) ground-down pavement? I know a Tesla can't.

How about on a snow-covered road, plowed but with no lane markings and road signs splattered with road grime.

Please, let's just get serious for a moment. "DANGER, DANGER, TAKE THE WHEEL WILL ROBINSON!!!"

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I have no argument with automation of repetitive motion/repetitive process activities such as production line manufacturing (my BS is in Manufacturing Engineering).

Driving is not a repetitive motion/repetitive process activity. Most automobile accidents are avoidable and are the result of poor/inadequate training or poor behavior, and rarely mechanical failure.

I asked the OP to substantiate his statement regarding automated vehicle with specifics. He stated the automated driving technology as advanced in 2024 if enacted (in a single day) would reduce human fatalities. I do not agree with that statement.

Signal detection is more than just repetitive activities, its about sensory thresholds and human reliability, in all areas.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

What current automated (ADAS) car can drive in the rain, at night, on a road under construction where the lane markings are blacked out then moved and painted white on (dimpled) ground-down pavement? I know a Tesla can't. How about on a snow-covered road, plowed but with no lane markings and road signs splattered with road grime.

Please, let's just get serious for a moment. "DANGER, DANGER, TAKE THE WHEEL WILL ROBINSON!!!"

Tesla has current technology that's better than humans.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

I mean, really, did you just write that?

A human developed a calculator, and you're telling me that the average person calculates numbers as good as a calculator.

Your statement makes no sense whatsoever.

Just because you don't want to understand something doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

Computer.programs.only.workmas well as they're written. Most.of them have bugs or explore. Play a Bethesda game at launch if you want to see how many millions of dollars worth of programming still has bugs. I'm kidding, Bethesda games are unplayable at launch they're so buggy.

You're wrong, there's more than 2 options. There's at least 4.

3) Deal with it

4) Buy the best protection you can for your family in a vehicle.

You can combine 3 and 4 too.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Tesla has current technology that's better than humans.

Yeah... Not so much. Teslas still routinely run into things and kill occupants that aren't paying attention. The reason their numbers look better at all is they don't work in crappy conditions, only work in areas they are comfortable with, and have a backup human driver.

[Car-Addicted]

OOPS
Tesla Autopilot crash driver 'was playing video game'
An Apple employee who died after his Tesla car hit a concrete barrier was playing a video game at the time of the crash, investigators believe.
The US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said the car had been driving semi-autonomously using Tesla's Autopilot software.



You can't legislate stupidity out of existence
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Tesla has current technology that's better than humans.

Lol. The fetch me app can't even get out of a parking lot.