[Vegas_Sirk]

Originally Posted by gthal

I have a slightly off topic question... and please forgive my ignorance! Is it legal in the US to carry a concealed gun (see #5)? Obviously, it is not in Canada but that's not relevant I guess. If it is legal, which I have to assume that it is based on this discussion, aren't you guys ever worried about cutting someone off in your car, pissing them off, and they have a GUN in their glove box???

I would be one hell of a careful driver if I lived south of the border !!

Certain states / counties allow you to get a permit after taking a course.
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[toofasttooslow]

Originally Posted by gthal

I have a slightly off topic question... and please forgive my ignorance! Is it legal in the US to carry a concealed gun (see #5)? Obviously, it is not in Canada but that's not relevant I guess. If it is legal, which I have to assume that it is based on this discussion, aren't you guys ever worried about cutting someone off in your car, pissing them off, and they have a GUN in their glove box???

I would be one hell of a careful driver if I lived south of the border !!

It's the ones that don't have permits that you really have to worry about. Gun crime is perpetrated mostly by people who cannot legally own guns in the first place. You have to worry about that wherever you go, not just the U.S..

[yellowg555]

I remember reading this story about this guy in Texas who was acquitted of killing a guy having sex with his wife. The story was something like the guy gets back from work and sees this guy in his wife's car. Not knowing if she was being hurt, he takes his gun and blows the guy away without asking any questions. Because it is Texas, he was acquitted of all charges. Needless to say, I'm pretty sure he is no longer with his wife.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by SoYank

A gun, no matter the calibre is not a toy. The A-G nuts could have a field day with a gun owner saying that.

Toy in the sense of its cheap manufacturing. It jams a lot, so not great to have around as a weapon.

[HyperM3]

Originally Posted by gum5h03

Just an opinion, OP is entitled to try them out if he likes. As far as most guns weighing the same? That is an asinine statement and I'll pretend you didn't say it to save you from your own embarrassment. No, I will never own a 1911. Why would I? Owning a 1911 is like saying you own a Chevy Pickup. Nice reliable gun but no imagination whatsoever. Gun technology has come a long way since then and I don't like feel like I've been hitting my hand all day with a brick. I guess it's just me but I don't feel the need to extend my penis size by carrying a over played relic. But to each their own...

And you said you were going to save me from embarrassment. Im sorry, but youre the one whos asinine. You apparently have no appreciation for guns, their history, or the ability to shoot one. What kind of imagination do you need to go to the range and have fun? What kind of imagination do you need to go to a competition(where most are modified 1911's) and shoot really well? Hitting your hand with a brick? FWIW, 1911's have less kick than any of your favorite plexiguns. My glock has the most kick because its so light. Again, this is where I like my Sig better. But then again, you seem pretty pussified because you cant handle heavier guns. Maybe you need to work out a bit more.

[speedgod]

I own a HK USP 40 and absolutely love it. I have not shot it lately, but it to me is a great gun!!

Easy to maintain as well.


SG

[SoYank]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Toy in the sense of its cheap manufacturing. It jams a lot, so not great to have around as a weapon.

Fair enough. But, again, poor choice of words.

[SoYank]

Originally Posted by gum5h03

Start off with a small monetary investment. You might find out that you really don't enjoy owning one so don't drop a lot of coin ($300-$400)the first purchase. Start with a revolver too -something like a .38 Smith and Wesson. Revolvers are perfect for a novice - especially when it comes to self defense. When you get tired of it move on to something larger like a 9mm or .40 auto. Take some local gun safety courses at your local police department. They usually offer them for free or a modest fee. They will give you some insight on what it's really like to be a gun carrying citizen as well as marksmanship pointers.

As M3This stated, good pointers. But I'd suggest starting with the gun safety course. There you'll learn the laws and not the speculations pertaining to firearms. You'll also get a feel for the weapon's power and have a chance to try different models. Then you'll be able to make a more informed decision on which to eventually buy.

My handguns include a S&W 586 .357, Browning Hi-Power 9mm, and H&K Sportsman .22 revolver.

[William]

AEG with a silencer is the way to go man.

quite
reduce recoil
gonna protect you against anyone
fell like scare-face holding that gun (not really)

[toofasttooslow]

Originally Posted by HyperM3

And you said you were going to save me from embarrassment. Im sorry, but youre the one whos asinine. You apparently have no appreciation for guns, their history, or the ability to shoot one. What kind of imagination do you need to go to the range and have fun? What kind of imagination do you need to go to a competition(where most are modified 1911's) and shoot really well? Hitting your hand with a brick? FWIW, 1911's have less kick than any of your favorite plexiguns. My glock has the most kick because its so light. Again, this is where I like my Sig better. But then again, you seem pretty pussified because you cant handle heavier guns. Maybe you need to work out a bit more.

Jesus some people are absolute fucktards when it comes to defending their points. How about this Mr. 1911 fanboy. I'll use small words so you don't have to use your Websters Junior Dictionary too much.

First the 1911 weight...


Weight 2.437 lb (1,105 g) empty, w/ magazine (FM 23–35, 1940)
Length 8.25 in (210 mm)
Barrel length 5.03 in (127 mm), Government model;

4.25 in (108 mm), Commander model;
3.5 in (89 mm), Officer's ACP model

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911

Now the H&K weights (including full frame autos)


Weight With magazine, unloaded:

748 g (1.65 lb) (USP 9 mm)
753 g (1.66 lb) (USP .40)
789 g (1.74 lb) (USP .45)
1,080 g (2.38 lb) (Match)
1,043 g (2.30 lb) (Expert)
862 g (1.90 lb) (Tactical)
667 g (1.47 lb) (Compact)
694 g (1.53 lb) (Compact .40)
726 g (1.60 lb) (Compact .45)

Length 194 mm (7.64 in) (USP)
200 mm (7.87 in) (USP .45)
240 mm (9.45 in) (Match)
224 mm (8.8 in) (Expert)
218 mm (8.58 in) (Tactical)
173 mm (6.81 in) (Compact)

Barrel length 108 mm (4.25 in) (USP)
112 mm (4.41 in) (USP .45)
153 mm (6.02 in) (Match)
132 mm (5.20 in) (Expert)
129 mm (5.08 in) (Tactical)
91 mm (3.58 in) (Compact)
96 mm (3.78 in) (Compact .45)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_USP

Gee there's no difference in weight is there. So all gun (handgun) weights are the same huh. Well I'll see your 2.5lbs to my 1.5lbs (let's not forget the fact that guns need ammo to be of any use) any day. That extra pount DOES make a difference believe it or not.

I'm wondering if you have a fancy nickel-plated 1911 by chance? Maybe you saw too many reruns of Miami Vice or maybe you're just "compensating" for something. Whatever it is you need to check yourself and your facts. Don't try to come here and spew fictitious nonsense and expect everyone to believe it to be gospel because you say so.

[010101]

A little off topic.. but do any of you guys know how to find out the value of guns? I know there is a gun blue book, but is there some where online I can check? I have a sig I'd like to sell if I can get a decent amount of money for it.

[HyperM3]

Originally Posted by gum5h03

Jesus some people are absolute fucktards when it comes to defending their points. How about this Mr. 1911 fanboy. I'll use small words so you don't have to use your Websters Junior Dictionary too much.

First the 1911 weight...


Weight 2.437 lb (1,105 g) empty, w/ magazine (FM 23–35, 1940)
Length 8.25 in (210 mm)
Barrel length 5.03 in (127 mm), Government model;

4.25 in (108 mm), Commander model;
3.5 in (89 mm), Officer's ACP model

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911

Now the H&K weights (including full frame autos)


Weight With magazine, unloaded:

748 g (1.65 lb) (USP 9 mm)
753 g (1.66 lb) (USP .40)
789 g (1.74 lb) (USP .45)
1,080 g (2.38 lb) (Match)
1,043 g (2.30 lb) (Expert)
862 g (1.90 lb) (Tactical)
667 g (1.47 lb) (Compact)
694 g (1.53 lb) (Compact .40)
726 g (1.60 lb) (Compact .45)

Length 194 mm (7.64 in) (USP)
200 mm (7.87 in) (USP .45)
240 mm (9.45 in) (Match)
224 mm (8.8 in) (Expert)
218 mm (8.58 in) (Tactical)
173 mm (6.81 in) (Compact)

Barrel length 108 mm (4.25 in) (USP)
112 mm (4.41 in) (USP .45)
153 mm (6.02 in) (Match)
132 mm (5.20 in) (Expert)
129 mm (5.08 in) (Tactical)
91 mm (3.58 in) (Compact)
96 mm (3.78 in) (Compact .45)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_USP

Gee there's no difference in weight is there. So all gun (handgun) weights are the same huh. Well I'll see your 2.5lbs to my 1.5lbs (let's not forget the fact that guns need ammo to be of any use) any day. That extra pount DOES make a difference believe it or not.

I'm wondering if you have a fancy nickel-plated 1911 by chance? Maybe you saw too many reruns of Miami Vice or maybe you're just "compensating" for something. Whatever it is you need to check yourself and your facts. Don't try to come here and spew fictitious nonsense and expect everyone to believe it to be gospel because you say so.

How about you go reread what I wrote. You seem extremely defensive as well, maybe youre trying to compensate for something. I said MOST guns weigh the same. Take 1911's out of the equation and you have a considerable amount of guns that are all in the same weight range. For as much as you think I like 1911's, you seem to be one helluva HK fanboy.

Im flattered you keep responding to me, maybe you like me in some sort of way. Maybe you DO want me to have some fancy 1911, but unfortunately I use my guns for actual competitions. Its a modified Springer Arms TRP, go look that one up if you have nothing better to do.

Meanwhile, I dont think Ive spewed any "fictitious nonsense" with the expectations of anyone taking it as gospel. Ive stated mostly opinions. On top of that, youve done nothing for this thread except to try to dispute everything Ive said.

How about you respond to the OP and help him out and take the saddle off me, Im tired of being ridden so hard.

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by gthal

I have a slightly off topic question... and please forgive my ignorance! Is it legal in the US to carry a concealed gun (see #5)? Obviously, it is not in Canada but that's not relevant I guess. If it is legal, which I have to assume that it is based on this discussion, aren't you guys ever worried about cutting someone off in your car, pissing them off, and they have a GUN in their glove box???

I would be one hell of a careful driver if I lived south of the border !!

It varies greatly by state and even by county or city. In many states a permit is required for the concealed carry of a firearm. Vermont is at one end of the spectrum, no license or permit is required for concealed carry. If you are able to legally purchase a firearm, you can carry it. Washington D.C. is at the other end. Residents of the District are required to have a permit to keep a firearm in the home and even then it must be in a condition where it cannot be used. In between are states like Georgia where you need a permit to carry it on your person but not to have it in your glove compartment.

For the OP, I would agree that a revolver is a good choice for a novice but if you have your sights set higher I love my XD.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by yellowg555

How much does a good home defense shotty cost?

Depends on your definition of good. It's been a while, but I still see them around. I got the Mossburg combo (regular stock and pistol grip, short and long barrel) for about $300. Now they run about 350 the last one I saw. I've never had a problem with this gun, other than finding the time/place to shoot it, in almost 20 years. Laugh all you want, my mom bought it for me on my 21st birthday. Hey, maybe I can print out some HK literature for her, my B-day is coming up!!!!

[Vegas_Sirk]

So last night I went down to the range and got my hands on some different models. I picked up a G19 G36 XD45 XD19 229R and the compact H&K. After feeling all of them in my hands I actually liked how the H&K and the Sig felt the best followed by the XD. The Glock's grip felt too small with out the extended mag for my big hands. I asked them if what they have as far a rentals go and they only have the Glock and Sigs as rentals. I'll probably go back down there and rent both just to see how they feel to shoot, is is the sig feels too heavy after a while then I know I need to look at the H&K and XD.

Oh I also think Im going to buy a 9mm for my first gun and then pick up a .45 after I get good at shooting the 9mm.
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[Vegas_Sirk]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

Depends on your definition of good. It's been a while, but I still see them around. I got the Mossburg combo (regular stock and pistol grip, short and long barrel) for about $300. Now they run about 350 the last one I saw. I've never had a problem with this gun, other than finding the time/place to shoot it, in almost 20 years. Laugh all you want, my mom bought it for me on my 21st birthday. Hey, maybe I can print out some HK literature for her, my B-day is coming up!!!!

I know this OT of my org post but does any one know of a good tack. 12 guage that has a pistol grip with collapsible stock? I saw one years ago but dont remember the brand of it.
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[Mr. 5]

Have the Police Version Glock 21, which is the .45 ACP. Only difference between the police and regualr is the 13 round clips instead of 10.
I love it!

[yellowg555]

I fired my friend's Beretta .40, and after 10 rounds my hand was numb and a little in pain. After that experience, I decided to go with 9mm.

[HyperM3]

Originally Posted by M3This

So last night I went down to the range and got my hands on some different models. I picked up a G19 G36 XD45 XD19 229R and the compact H&K. After feeling all of them in my hands I actually liked how the H&K and the Sig felt the best followed by the XD. The Glock's grip felt too small with out the extended mag for my big hands. I asked them if what they have as far a rentals go and they only have the Glock and Sigs as rentals. I'll probably go back down there and rent both just to see how they feel to shoot, is is the sig feels too heavy after a while then I know I need to look at the H&K and XD.

Oh I also think Im going to buy a 9mm for my first gun and then pick up a .45 after I get good at shooting the 9mm.

Good for you. Thats how you do it. I think youre on the right track and dont need us quibbling over things anymore.

[RokX]

I use my Glock 23 as my primary CC right now. I also have a USP45 and FN USG 5.7mm as far as pistols go. I'm finding the Glock .40 to be really hard on my hands after putting more than a few rounds downrange at a time. I'm definitely considering a HK P2000 in 9mm for my next pistol purchase. I just love how it feels in my hand.

As for home defense, I obviously concur with others here. Shotgun, hands down (or up ). Nothing else has that universal sound of a pump-action especially to an intruder at 3 in the morning in the dark. Thats why I have my Remington 870 tactical loaded with buckshot in the front area of the gun safe

[allentu]

its mainly personal prefferance that will determin which gun you will like. i can shoot my XD better then i can shoot my p226. that doesn't mean one is better or worse then the other, its just personal... but a few quick types/guns that are good are...
kimber 1911
ed 1911
sig p226/p229
hk usp
hk p2000
springfield xd
berreta 92
walter p99
sw 500
etc....

buck per buck...i would highly suggest a xd as a first gun over many other brands. as far as the caliber...think about how many times you plan on using that gun? how much are you willing to spend? if its a semi, 9's a 40's are great for its price and function.

[BMW320i]

i own a rifle . . .