[gunner]

This is really sad. I do put a lot of the blame on the parents for enabling this young man. But I will not add to their misery, they will have to live with their bad decisions the rest of their lives.

I'm 51 and just yesterday hit 120 on an open road on my way to a ball game. Plenty of visibility, good road, and no alcohol but I'm sorry to say I still have a little bit of an 18-year-old in me. Bad decisions are not limited to the young drivers.

This coming off the heels of a Friday night incident where I was traveling 60 and was almost hit head on by someone going way too fast into a curve. I had to go off the right side of the road to prevent him from hitting me. He just missed the car in front of me and the car behind me almost ran into me because of the fantastic brakes of my BMW.

He over-corrected and went off the right side of his lane into a field. We didn't think he was seriously involved with it being dark. 5 minutes down the road our three cars (with us still cleaning out our pants) were passed by three ambulances and a police car heading towards the scene. Whew!

Accidents happen but tragedies like this Florida accident certainly can be avoided. But... they will never be able to eliminate the problem short of making us all drive golf carts (oops, I've done some stupid things in golf carts too!).

My condolences to the families.

[IND-Distribution]

Originally Posted by FifthStreetz

Sad story, but at least no innocent people were injured or killed. It was just a stupid move that cost them their lives, some call it Darwin's car

IMO all of them were innocent. They were 18 year old kids that didn't know better. The simple fact is that NO 18 year old kid is mature or responsable enough to drive an M5. The parents are the ones to blame.

[jadeddjay]

http://www.ocala.com/article/2008012.../BREAKING_NEWS

[ScheerSpeed]

Originally Posted by jadeddjay

http://www.local6.com/news/15144329/detail.html

ANTHONY, Fla. -- Five people were killed early Saturday when a BMW they were riding in flew off an elevated runway at an airstrip and was split into several pieces, according to police. Images: Crash Scene Florida Highway officers said a gray 2008 BMW was traveling on an airstrip after 3:30 a.m. Saturday near Jumbolair Aviation Estates when it sailed off the 80- to 85-foot elevated runway.

FHP Lt. Mike Burroughs told the Ocala Star-Banner that the vehicle traveled 200 feet and hit a large tree about 15 feet above the ground.

Three of the passengers were ejected from the vehicle upon impact.

Authorities told the Ocala Star-Banner that Jacob James Casey, 19, and James Devon Hime, 19 were killed in the crash. The other three victims, all men, were not identified.

Neighbors in the 1400 block of Northeast 95th Street said that they were awakened by a bang that shook their house.

FHP officials investigating the crash said there were skid marks at the end of the runway.

but R.I.P.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by Palella@Industry

IMO all of them were innocent. They were 18 year old kids that didn't know better. The simple fact is that NO 18 year old kid is mature or responsable enough to drive an M5. The parents are the ones to blame.

Sorry.... they are adults. As sad as it is for their families, the driver was an adult and he took the risk to drive the car with his 4 friends after a party (alcohol may have been involved) in the dark in an unfamilar car.

The sympathy is with the families not the driver who took these risks.

18 year olds get put away for murder all the time.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by Laszlo

It is almost unreal reading this and what was posted. It was if they were actually telling the future and I guess statistically it would be probable. Very sad story. I don't even want to begin to think of what the insurance lawsuit will be and how badly the father will be sued.

What did the father do?

The driver was an adult. He took the risk and lost and killed himself + 4 friends.

Why are many people treating this 18 year old adult different from other adults? Poor naive innocent 18 year olds?? He knew what he was doing.

Feel for the surviving family but not the driver.

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by T Bone

What did the father do?

The driver was an adult. He took the risk and lost and killed himself + 4 friends.

Why are many people treating this 18 year old adult different from other adults? Poor naive innocent 18 year olds?? He knew what he was doing.

Feel for the surviving family but not the driver.

Well, the word "Adult" is really very relative. Just because the LAW considers you an "Adult" doesn't really mean you are one. In this case, clearlly, he wasn't. Some people "grow up" faster than others.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by E90ice

Well, the word "Adult" is really very relative. Just because the LAW considers you an "Adult" doesn't really mean you are one. In this case, clearlly, he wasn't. Some people "grow up" faster than others.

18 year olds get convicted of murder and serve time like other adults.

We send young men and women off to war who are 18, 19.

The point is, don't coddle the 19 year old driver who killed himself and 4 friends + changed all the family's lives involved. This is too easy. We need to treat him any other adult who chooses to take these risks and loses.

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by T Bone

18 year olds get convicted of murder and serve time like other adults.

We send young men and women off to war who are 18, 19.

The point is, don't coddle the 19 year old driver who killed himself and 4 friends + changed all the family's lives involved. This is too easy. We need to treat him any other adult who chooses to take these risks and loses.

True, my only point was that 18 years old is just when the LAW considers you an adult (thats why you go to prison and war, like you said).

But MENTALY you may not be one.
Personally, I think the father is just as much to blame as the driver.

You can't possibly think that at 18 years of age, you are skilled enough to handle a 500hp car, sober or not. The father should have not give up the keys.

"Hey, dad...I'm going to a party tonight, and I might drink...can I have the M5?"

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by E90ice

True, my only point was that 18 years old is just when the LAW considers you an adult (thats why you go to prison and war, like you said).

But MENTALY you may not be one.
Personally, I think the father is just as much to blame as the driver.

You can't possibly think that at 18 years of age, you are skilled enough to handle a 500hp car, sober or not. The father should have not give up the keys.

"Hey, dad...I'm going to a party tonight, and I might drink...can I have the M5?"

http://forums.ocala.com/eve/forums/a...7211086986/p/1

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by T Bone

http://forums.ocala.com/eve/forums/a...7211086986/p/1

Not sure what your point is. That drugs and alcohol may have not been involved?

Regardless, in my opinion, parents should not give their teenage kids 500hp cars. 2 years of driving does not give you enough experience and maturity to react to losing control of a car at high speeds. It just doesn't.

[footie]

Originally Posted by E90ice

True, my only point was that 18 years old is just when the LAW considers you an adult (thats why you go to prison and war, like you said).

But MENTALY you may not be one.
Personally, I think the father is just as much to blame as the driver.

You can't possibly think that at 18 years of age, you are skilled enough to handle a 500hp car, sober or not. The father should have not give up the keys.

"Hey, dad...I'm going to a party tonight, and I might drink...can I have the M5?"

For once E90ice we are in total agreement, the unfortunate thing is this father loved his son too much and give him the tools to take his own life and the lives of his friends too.

Trust me when I say this as a father, I doubt he will ever be able to forgive himself.

But to be honest if alcohol was involved then chances are the same thing may have happened anyway regardless of the car, only at a lesser speed.

In any case I feel for the families of all involved.

[AtoB]

what a horrible, senseless loss of life...

you have to wonder what in the hell the kids parents were thinking...
an M5??!! + teenagers = recipe for disaster.

kids that age have no idea how dangerous driving can really be.
i know i didn't, and when i think back to the crazy shit i did in my first car with my friends (a malibu classic wagon) i cringe. naturally, giving kids the keys to a car is a gamble of sorts. but giving kids the key to a car like that is just plain stupid and a sign of terrible judgment on the parents part.

it's a shame this kids had to die so young, it's a shame this kids parents had to learn this lesson... tragic on a number of levels.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

For once E90ice we are in total agreement, the unfortunate thing is this father loved his son too much and give him the tools to take his own life and the lives of his friends too.

Trust me when I say this as a father, I doubt he will ever be able to forgive himself.

But to be honest if alcohol was involved then chances are the same thing may have happened anyway regardless of the car, only at a lesser speed.

In any case I feel for the families of all involved.

Originally Posted by E90ice

Not sure what your point is. That drugs and alcohol may have not been involved?

Regardless, in my opinion, parents should not give their teenage kids 500hp cars. 2 years of driving does not give you enough experience and maturity to react to losing control of a car at high speeds. It just doesn't.

My point??

Josh Ammirato: 4 tickets in 2 years (one ticket 4 days ago)

James Hime: 4 tickets, including a criminal traffic misdemeanor.

Dustin Dawe: 2 tickets

Isaac Rubin: 7 tickets, one criminal traffic misdemeanor 2 weeks ago, driving while license revoked.

Just check http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/ under case search.


The driver was an adult and apparently had a bit of disregard for the rules of the road. The parents of the driver......where were they when Josh got the tickets? Was the form of punishment to provide the M5?

In any case, the adult driver is responsible for the whole enchilada.

[just4kickz]

haha the age and m5 thing is kinda lame. typical for older people to say that but whatevs not my problem. not all young adults are like that... its the bad ones you hear about the most.

mmm lastly...nobody deserves to die...but im pretty sure they knew they were doing something stupid.

[Chunga]

Whats happend here is all parents worst nightmare and a thing we all sit and think of when they drive away at night with their freinds until their finaly come home safe.
My son has his drivers license in a few month. I am not happy. Not happy at all. He will ask me if he can borrow my car.... (not even my wife or dog can borrow it).
What can you do. He is your pride and joy.
He loves BMW as much as i do. He is proud of our garage and he and his freinds spend time lookin and feeling and force me to take rides.
So - its not simple. Blaim the parrents yes. We can do that. But i guess they only would give their son the best of the best. We all do.

This gave me something to think about.
Not that i have a M something. But its still a nice fast car for a young kid.

2 of his freinds was killed last sommer in a similar stupid crash- there where 4 in the car. 2 where just lucky.

[AtoB]

Originally Posted by just4kickz

haha the age and m5 thing is kinda lame. typical for older people to say that but whatevs not my problem. not all young adults are like that... its the bad ones you hear about the most.

mmm lastly...nobody deserves to die...but im pretty sure they knew they were doing something stupid.

really?... how many hours behind the wheel do you think this kid had?
bad drivers are bad drivers.... but there is something to be said for real world experience. you'll lean that when you get a bit older.... i'm guess by your somewhat immature response that you are a younger person. i could rant until i was blue in the face and you would still not understand, with age comes wisdom. you'll see.

[just4kickz]

Originally Posted by AtoB

really?... how many hours behind the wheel do you think this kid had?
bad drivers are bad drivers.... but there is something to be said for real world experience. you'll lean that when you get a bit older.... i'm guess by your somewhat immature response that you are a younger person. i could rant until i was blue in the face and you would still not understand, with age comes wisdom. you'll see.

how is that an immature response? everything i said has truth... sure you gain wisdom through years but that doesn't necessarily make you any wiser. like i said...you only hear about the teens who drive recklessly... not the teens that drive safely.

&... your just bringing up the age issue... if you've searched e90post for arguments based on age you'll most likely find hundreds of threads where people argue how teens shouldn't be driving this and that and so on and so forth. it's been said a million times...

[AtoB]

Originally Posted by just4kickz

how is that an immature response? everything i said has truth... sure you gain wisdom through years but that doesn't necessarily make you any wiser. like i said...you only hear about the teens who drive recklessly... not the teens that drive safely.

why do you think rates for young drivers (especially males) are so high?
the accident numbers/statistics support the fact that young drivers are more likely to get into in accident due to lack of experience and judgement... period.
i have several clients that are insurance companies.... they research this stuff to death... by age, demo, race, sex, salary, education... etc. you may not like it, but it is true.

i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree... no offense.

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by T Bone

My point??

Josh Ammirato: 4 tickets in 2 years (one ticket 4 days ago)

James Hime: 4 tickets, including a criminal traffic misdemeanor.

Dustin Dawe: 2 tickets

Isaac Rubin: 7 tickets, one criminal traffic misdemeanor 2 weeks ago, driving while license revoked.

Just check http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/ under case search.


The driver was an adult and apparently had a bit of disregard for the rules of the road. The parents of the driver......where were they when Josh got the tickets? Was the form of punishment to provide the M5?

In any case, the adult driver is responsible for the whole enchilada.

Yes, I saw that. I have no idea what some parents are thinking...or not thinking.

[Chunga]

Originally Posted by just4kickz

how is that an immature response? everything i said has truth... sure you gain wisdom through years but that doesn't necessarily make you any wiser. like i said...you only hear about the teens who drive recklessly... not the teens that drive safely.

&... your just bringing up the age issue... if you've searched e90post for arguments based on age you'll most likely find hundreds of threads where people argue how teens shouldn't be driving this and that and so on and so forth. it's been said a million times...

Your right. I am 45 and drive like shit. Totaled 4 cars. Always drives to fast.
And its proven that to much experince can kill you. And i think its true. One of my totals was in a street have crossed for 10 years. It was routine. But then. A truck i did not notice. course it was a unusual situation. And BANG. Front gone - couldent repair (someone in the insurence company hates me by now)
Experince is almost as fatal as age.
Just drive safe. ( i can´t)

[greentea335i]

ppl gotta stop trying to race ppl on the roads
i swear i get that alot