[XutvJet]

"Too smooth, too refined, too fast"

Like some of us have been saying over and over, 987/997 generation Porsches are where it's at. Absolute perfect blend of connection, NVH, refinement, performance, etc. I know, I know, old Porsches are expensive to maintain, but you can get into most well maintained 987.2/997.2 cars for a fraction of the price of a new one. Better yet, buy a .1 car with a bore scored motor for pennies on the dollar and install a built, larger displacement motor for $30-35k and some well choose suspension parts you'll have one hell of a ride for well under $60k.

[XutvJet]

"Too smooth, too refined, too fast"

Like some of us have been saying over and over, 987/997 generation Porsches are where it's at. Absolute perfect blend of connection, NVH, refinement, performance, etc. I know, I know, old Porsches are expensive to maintain, but you can get into most well maintained 987.2/997.2 cars for a fraction of the price of a new one. Better yet, buy a .1 car with a bore scored motor for pennies on the dollar and install a built, larger displacement motor for $30-35k and some well choose suspension parts you'll have one hell of a ride for well under $60k.

[x622]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

LOL. The guy is 40 and owns his own PDR business. Does all the work on his cars. He owns a SC'd 2000 C5 Z06 with 1100whp, SC'd 600whp S2000, 2015 Viper GTS, 2018 911, 2024 AMG 63 GT, 1980 GMC square body, and a 1st gen Ridgeline. Minus the AMG, he's maintained and modded his cars. He is an absolute wealth of automotive knowledge, straight shooter, and brutally honest. He's no Boomer and knows all the good and bad that goes with maintaining a C5.

And yeah, like I said, I researched the crap out of the C5 and it's parts. Drivetrain parts are easy. It's the body stuff that has become unobtainium, especially for the FRCs, used parts or new.

600hp on a supercharger setup on a s2000? Pics? I didn't think this was possible unless he built his own c38r setup...

[baege]

Originally Posted by blkfast3

As I have stated above. If you are going 911 the GT3 is the one to have.

It’s all personal preference. Having driven both GT3 and 488/F8 I personally would go with the Ferrari. To me it’s more fun to drive. Not knocking the GT3 but Porsche is overhyped by a bunch of fanboys.

for sure subjective

for me NA is huge, turbos just dont bring the same fizz for me

[blkfast3]

Originally Posted by baege

for sure subjective

for me NA is huge, turbos just dont bring the same fizz for me

I do enjoy NA as well. Picked up a C8 Z06 for the NA FPC V8..

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by baege

for sure subjective

for me NA is huge, turbos just dont bring the same fizz for me

458 is peak NA no?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by x622

600hp on a supercharger setup on a s2000? Pics? I didn't think this was possible unless he built his own c38r setup...

Here's his car on the dyno back in 2013. The car is not flashy at all. He had the S2000 wheel barrels widened to get more tire at the four corners.

https://paxtonauto.wordpress.com/201...charged-s2000/

This is his C5 Z06 back in 2018 when it was making 1000whp. It makes a bit more now and it doesn't have a silly Vette logo on the hood anymore.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...el-horsepower/

[baege]

Originally Posted by blkfast3

I do enjoy NA as well. Picked up a C8 Z06 for the NA FPC V8..

congrats, amazing motor

surprised you wouldnt prefer the GT3 over the 488 or F8 then

back in the day I preferred a 128i over a 135i because of its NAness even though the 135 was way faster

for me the sharpness, intensity, viscerality, sound and responsiveness of NA will always trump a turbo engine

I take it there were other aspects of the 488/F8 which made them more fun to drive than the GT3?

[baege]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

458 is peak NA no?

ferrari made NA engines after the 458 I think...

[blkfast3]

Originally Posted by baege

congrats, amazing motor

surprised you wouldnt prefer the GT3 over the 488 or F8 then

back in the day I preferred a 128i over a 135i because of its NAness even though the 135 was way faster

for me the sharpness, intensity, viscerality, sound and responsiveness of NA will always trump a turbo engine

I take it there were other aspects of the 488/F8 which made them more fun to drive than the GT3?

Yes not exactly sure how to put it but for some reason they were just more fun to me.

GT3 is still an awesome car and very fun to drive but the Ferrari slightly edges it for me.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Here's his car on the dyno back in 2013. The car is not flashy at all. He had the S2000 wheel barrels widened to get more tire at the four corners.

https://paxtonauto.wordpress.com/201...charged-s2000/

Wow, very clean S2k.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by baege

ferrari made NA engines after the 458 I think...

458 was the last NA V8 mid-engine Ferrari.
They still make NA V12 cars but they all have engine in the front unless you can get the rare Daytona SP3.

[x622]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Here's his car on the dyno back in 2013. The car is not flashy at all. He had the S2000 wheel barrels widened to get more tire at the four corners.

https://paxtonauto.wordpress.com/201...charged-s2000/

This is his C5 Z06 back in 2018 when it was making 1000whp. It makes a bit more now and it doesn't have a silly Vette logo on the hood anymore.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...el-horsepower/

I remember this car! He was one of the first on s2ki to make 600 on a supercharger setup. Powerband has no torque like expected but still, small world man.

[c1pher]

I am on my 4th 911 and have owned two 718s. While I love my G87, I feel like my 991.2 GTS is quite a bit more special. It’s still fairly light and has a lot of power. A simple stage one tune gets you into Turbo territory while not gaining weight. I owned a 992 and went back to the 991.2. I feel it’s just right. It’s nicer inside, still modern, smaller and lighter. My 911 weighs 3240lbs with 450hp. It handles the power so well too. I have PDCC and rear steer so it goes around curves almost like it’s on a maglev.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by baege

congrats,

for me the sharpness, intensity, viscerality, sound and responsiveness of NA will always trump a turbo engine

Hard to come close to the experience of good NA engine with a manual gearbox. Just the way they build power all the way. It’s so addictive compared to a turbo. Just makes you smile so much.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by baege

ferrari made NA engines after the 458 I think...

Right but not in it's sportiest model. It's been mostly in the larger cars, nothing as playful as a 458 since the 458.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by blkfast3

Yes not exactly sure how to put it but for some reason they were just more fun to me.

GT3 is still an awesome car and very fun to drive but the Ferrari slightly edges it for me.

I'm not sold on the 911 of any stripe being.... fun. Now, I enjoy my drives on a bit of rare twisty road, mostly for the lovely turn in and wonderful NA engine, BUT, I don't think it is playful. There's a LOT of rear grip, and I mean a lot, 295's out back and the engine pressing down hard on those fat rears. I feel like my car could easily handle another 100HP without breaking a sweat. It's hard to be playful with that much grip on exit.

[baege]

Originally Posted by Davil

Hard to come close to the experience of good NA engine with a manual gearbox. Just the way they build power all the way. It’s so addictive compared to a turbo. Just makes you smile so much.

definitely the way the engine builds to a crescendo is addictive

and for me its also the sense of directness with NA, the engine just has immediate response, your right foot and the engine are directly connected

[pbonsalb]

Not sure about Porsche 911 (or which models of them), but some naturally aspirated cars are not directly connected. My 08 E90 M3, for example, was drive by wire for the right foot to engine (throttle) connection.

[Alfisti]

997 was the last 911 to be a direct connection, 991 went DBW and electric steering.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

I’m on my 8th 911. 997.2 GTS or 991.1 GTS is where you want to be.

I agree here but would include a 991.1S esp considering the GTS wasnt much, if at all, faster, and are a little harder to come by than an S. I love my PTS 991.1S - just hit 7K miles on it this year. After owning 2 991.2's they just aren't as entertaining to drive as the N/A cars. Only my 2 718 GT4s were as fun as the 991.1S.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

I agree here but would include a 991.1S esp considering the GTS wasnt much, if at all, faster, and are a little harder to come by than an S. I love my PTS 991.1S - just hit 7K miles on it this year. After owning 2 991.2's they just aren't as entertaining to drive as the N/A cars. Only my 2 718 GT4s were as fun as the 991.1S.

Hard to find a really good spec on an S but there are some unicorns out there. S was still narrow body for 991 too. Great car though would own again.