[Ashley Schaeffer BMW]

I traded my E46 for an FR-S when they first came out. Huge mistake. What a slow piece of crap.

Took a huge hit to trade it in for an E92 weeks after buying it.

But this makes sense considering how BMW is trying to become the German Toyota.

[sonicbimmer19]

Originally Posted by JAM3S

I traded my E46 for an FR-S when they first came out. Huge mistake. What a slow piece of crap.

Took a huge hit to trade it in for an E92 weeks after buying it.

But this makes sense considering how BMW is trying to become the German Toyota.

It's a "budget" car marketed toward younger people, I believe with around 200 hp.
FRS/BRZ are known for handling, balance, and agility not so much the speed.
If BMW uses modified platform with BMW engine with more power, I believe it could work.

But trading in a e46 is a blasphemy!
Cheers

[Kayani_1]

Sounds good to me.

[Meeni]

As long as no CVT transmission touches a BMW that's ok, I suppose.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by sonicbimmer19

But trading in a e46 is a blasphemy!
Cheers

It's like tradinging an E46 for an E30, minus the premium badge.

[DASHOCKER]

Originally Posted by JAM3S

I traded my E46 for an FR-S when they first came out. Huge mistake. What a slow piece of crap.

Took a huge hit to trade it in for an E92 weeks after buying it.

But this makes sense considering how BMW is trying to become the German Toyota.

I want some of what you were smoking.

[Ti335]

Originally Posted by Thurman Murch

I was kinda hoping BMW partnered w/ Honda. I think the NSX concept plus BMW enhancements would make for a sick ride. I am sure BMW just wants Toyota's hybrid tech and is feeding them a little fish food to get it. Nonetheless, hope something good comes of it.

I was kinda hoping that BMW would not partner with anybody and just build a good, driver-oriented car themselves like they used to. Partnering with Toyota to build a sports car makes as much sense as partnering with Yugo to build the next 7-series. Toyota is known for making some of the most boring and least fun to drive cars on the market. Its bread and butter models like Corolla and Camry are literally the antithesis of sportiness. BMW has 1000 times Toyota's expertise when it comes to building a driver's car. The only reason for this collaboration is cost saving. BMW does not have the funds to develop a new sports car (probably because they spent all of their R&D dollars on the soon-to-be-released FWD econobox), while Toyota has a Subaru-developed platform that they don't quite know what to do with.

While BMW is collaborating with Toyota to build a Z4, Audi is collaborating with Porsche to build the R4. Which one do you think is going to be a better sports car??

[gds52]

Originally Posted by Eagle1oh7

A TOYOBIMMER?! As Vader would say: "NOOOOOOO!!!!"

I would say Bi-Toy....oops!!!

[Asbjorn]

Originally Posted by Ti335

While BMW is collaborating with Toyota to build a Z4, Audi is collaborating with Porsche to build the R4. Which one do you think is going to be a better sports car??

Center/rear-engined AWD cars can be as sporty as they want. To me they wont be as fun to drive as front-engined rear-wheel drive cars with 50/50 weight distribution. They will be faster yes, but not as easy to have fun with. We need to appreciate that BMW is not heading in the direction of Audi and Porsche.

[SCOTT26]

While BMW is collaborating with Toyota to build a Z4, Audi is collaborating with Porsche to build the R4. Which one do you think is going to be a better sports car??

Porsche nixed the R4 and the baby Porsche because they felt a baby Boxster is not essential for the brand deciding the Boxster is ideally the true entry Porsche.
But this is the limits for VAG they will not develop a single model unless there is a business case from the other VW marques making the project more cost effective. Porsche is if you use the term the stepchild to a disliked step parent. Which is why they have gone out of their way to prevent complete assimilation.
Audi are not happy about the R4 and will no doubt interpret R4 into the next TT.

But stories like this are common news known within the German car industry.

[Desmo85]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Porsche nixed the R4 and the baby Porsche because they felt a baby Boxster is not essential for the brand deciding the Boxster is ideally the true entry Porsche.
But this is the limits for VAG they will not develop a single model unless there is a business case from the other VW marques making the project more cost effective. Porsche is if you use the term the stepchild to a disliked step parent. Which is why they have gone out of their way to prevent complete assimilation.
Audi are not happy about the R4 and will no doubt interpret R4 into the next TT.

But stories like this are common news known within the German car industry.

Exactly, furthermore all future vehicles of the VAG (Volkswagen AG) will share the MQB "Modulare Queer Baukasten" translated "modular transversal toolkit".

Porsche however will not be using the MQB, so there will be no cooperation engineeringwise take place with VW/Audi

[Ti335]

Originally Posted by ChRR1000S

Exactly, furthermore all future vehicles of the VAG (Volkswagen AG) will share the MQB "Modulare Queer Baukasten" translated "modular transversal toolkit".

Porsche however will not be using the MQB, so there will be no cooperation engineeringwise take place with VW/Audi

Porsche is already sharing the Cayenne platform with VAG. The upcoming Macan is based on the Q5. You better believe that there will be more cooperation in the future.

The R4 is still a go:

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...e-books-report

[Desmo85]

Originally Posted by Ti335

Porsche is already sharing the Cayenne platform with VAG. The upcoming Macan is based on the Q5. You better believe that there will be more cooperation in the future.

The R4 is still a go:

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...e-books-report

I was not thinking about their SUV - Division, for me a real Porsche is a Mid-engined sportscar, but you are right they share absolutely everything (Chassis,Engine,etc..)

The link to the news however is from 2011, and according to the german Magazine "Auto Motor Sport" (which is owned by VAG, so you can say it is plausible what they re saying ) the Audi R4 is definetly dead.
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/n...e-1880165.html

[BMW269]

It is not yet sure whether the 959 will share the same platform as the next R8 and Gallardo.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Ti335

Porsche is already sharing the Cayenne platform with VAG. The upcoming Macan is based on the Q5. You better believe that there will be more cooperation in the future.

Porsche made a statement saying that they had to re-engineer the Q5 platform in order to reflect the character of a Porsche which apparently infuriated Audi .
There will not be an R4 because they need to spread the platform across each marque in order to be profitable and they need Porsche but as Porshce says and I agree. The Boxster and Cayman are the perfect entry to the Porschebrand.

[mikal7]

Originally Posted by Ryan Leonardo

Don't be naive.... Only thing subaru provided was the engine..

Everyone is saying subaru built the chassis , I don't think that's true.

Toyota's don't get too much love but lately THEY CAN BUILD CARS, look at the LFA and new GS F sport....

Much to the perception of Mercedes gettin bashed here but thier recent cars are more drivers cars than BMW's, some people just can't comprehend that , a lot of bimmers are soft now, but since it's a BMW forum they can do wrong lol

You don't think thats true, go look at the suspension of the fr-s and impreza, they share a lot of parts. The car does not have a true double wishbone. The body panels are all made by subaru, the interior is pure crap regardless of who makes it, and my point is its not a drivers car to people who have experienced real 80's/90's sports cars i.e.: 930, rx7, r32gtr.

I'm not saying toyota didnt "build" the car - this is my point:
with the supra toyota over engineered the car and had to sell it at a high price and look what happened, it held its value.
In this case, toyota spent that same engineering money on MARKETING!
Sadly, it worked. People care more about what other people perceive to be cool vs what really matters. You want a "drivers car" go drive an rx7 or a porsche 911. The fr-s is the next 240sx and for 25,000$ its a ripoff.

To make it more simple actually go to your scion dealership, open and close the door/hood/trunk of the tC (built by toyota) and go do the same on the fr-s.