[10"]

Originally Posted by Soterios

I mean. You can try to play gatekeeper all you want, but you're just wrong.

You aren't the Merriam Webster for all things automotive.

I never said I am the gatekeeper. This is my post and these are MY opinions. Pretty sure there are others who agree.

Not sure if you've ever been enthusiastic about anything but if you have been or are you will know that;

Enthusiasts are after specifics and details. Not all cars are essentially the same just like all watches, cities, foods, cameras, stamps, planes, motorcycles, clothes, fashion, perfumes, toys, books, music, etc etc are the same.

Not sure you understand the difference between enthusiasts who are into the details vs. people who casually enjoy things. In my mind if someone can just lease a car after 1 day of car shopping and then turn it in casually and lease another car 2 years later after 1 day of shopping again that person cannot possibly be an enthusiast. That is a consumer.

It's ok to NOT be an enthusiast. Totally fine. My proposition is that people who are fleetingly into things are not enthusiasts they are just consumers. Nothing wrong with that at all really; but it muddies the waters of motoring culture.

[Soterios]

Originally Posted by 10"

I never said I am the gatekeeper. This is my post and these are MY opinions. Pretty sure there are others who agree.

Not sure if you've ever been enthusiastic about anything but if you have been or are you will know that;

Enthusiasts are after specifics and details. Not all cars are essentially the same just like all watches, cities, foods, cameras, stamps, planes, motorcycles, clothes, fashion, perfumes, toys, books, music, etc etc are the same.

Not sure you understand the difference between enthusiasts who are into the details vs. people who casually enjoy things. In my mind if someone can just lease a car after 1 day of car shopping and then turn it in casually and lease another car 2 years later after 1 day of shopping again that person cannot possibly be an enthusiast. That is a consumer.

It's ok to NOT be an enthusiast. Totally fine. My proposition is that people who are fleetingly into things are not enthusiasts they are just consumers. Nothing wrong with that at all really; but it muddies the waters of motoring culture.

I think we have a communication break down here, because I don't disagree with a lot of what you said here.

A guy buying an M2, driving it for a year or two and then moving on the the next M3, and repeating, isn't the same kind of 'car guy' as what I would call typical.

And when I said "a car is a car", it was a bit hyperbolic. I just mean that you can go drive an FD RX7, fall in love, and then a year later drive a E46M3 and think "Fuck I need this" and repeat the process forever. "The grass is always greener" Some of the details that I look for in a car change over time.

I guess it's just the motivation for WHY people swap the car, and less that they are swapping the car.

I don't swap cars because I want the new cool thing. I swap cars because I just fall in love with a different car sometimes. Automotive monogamy hasn't gotten me yet.

[KingOfJericho]

You can be an enthusiast by owning one car forever or one car each year, forever. One is not any better than the other. Some people get married young and stay that way for their entire lives, others live in the playboy mansion. It doesn't mean the person with high turnover is falling for some grand marketing scheme, it means they have the means and desire to change vehicles more frequently than you do. There's no "right way" to own a car.

[mgmarsh39]

My goal is to drive/own every car in existence. At least that is what my wife thinks since I tend to trade cars each year.

I love all cars!

[JDC PDX]

Life is short. Buy the car!

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by 10"

See I can't really get an understanding of you wanting to do that. I can appreciate your enthusiasm for driving different cars but I have a very small list of cars i TRULY want and for me it's those or bust. I don't want things just because others love them I only want what I love and what fires my imagination.

Perhaps the difference between people like you and I is that I have very specific tastes and want to only try those and you like many things and want to try them all.

i guess what I'm trying to grasp is how you know that you only want a certain type of car? Have you test driven all the cars on your bucket list to see how they would do in real world scenarios? The seating position, the view out the window, how the steering feels, how the car makes you feel, how much does the interior rattle or let in tire noise, etc... these are all things that someone can't tell you about. you just have to experience the car.

-I was a hater on the e92 when it came out (boooo all M3s should have an I-6)
-I hated on the F80 when it came out (wtf is bmw doing going turbo)
-I hated on 911s because 'they look like every other porsche'.... now I'm looking to trade my 458 in on a 6 speed gt3.

Point is I've hated on a lot of cars... but after giving some of them a fair shake i really started to like them. things change and people change. I feel like some people here would rotate between the same 5 porno videos the rest of their life because they know what they like and that's final.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

You can be an enthusiast by owning one car forever or one car each year, forever. One is not any better than the other. Some people get married young and stay that way for their entire lives, others live in the playboy mansion. It doesn't mean the person with high turnover is falling for some grand marketing scheme, it means they have the means and desire to change vehicles more frequently than you do. There's no "right way" to own a car.

Sure there is, it depends on the financial wherewithall of the individual. If someone is buying expensive cars rather than feeding his kids, or paying to properly educate and care for them, then he is not "owning" the car the right way.

[tranquility]

I don't think the ppl doing it even realize it themselves lol. The OP said every 20 mths, so what kinda tech advances take place in that period when placement of cupholders is a big talking pt in this relatively slow-progressing industry? You're not going from a Model T to a Tesla in that period lol.

Ppl don't appreciate cars if switching that often, it's just an accessory for them. Has nothing to do w being rich either. Lots of rich ppl keep cars and there are lots of them that change like underwear also, but look at the demographics and see who are the more enthusiasts of the 2.

[Soterios]

Originally Posted by EricVR4

Case in point. If it's a discussion, why are you telling people they're wrong if they have a different opinion than you? This is obviously bothering you

The "You're wrong" was him saying I'm not a car enthusiast. It had nothing to do with his opinions of other peoples ownership. He can think I'm an elephant if he wants, but it doesn't mean he's right.

[DPelletier]

IMO, there are many different ways to be an "enthusiast" and I'm not sure any one way is better than the others....particularly since everyone's circumstances are different. I had a friend (sadly passed from Cancer a couple years ago) with an extensive car collection, like 20 cars - several of which were worth well into the 7 figure mark. These were classic cars from the '60's, mostly low mileage "survivors" and he never drove most of them. I was in his warehouse looking at his stuff and I asked him how one particular car drove....he responded by telling me he had never even sat in that particular car. Many people would rant that if he didn't drive the cars, he wasn't a real "enthusiast" but I disagreed, and still do: he enjoyed collecting, restoring and owning the cars and related memorabilia and the fact he didn't drive them all didn't make him any less of an enthusiast in my eyes. The guy's passion for these cars spanned decades and he spent countless hours searching, doing research and finding rare parts for these cars.....He was a consumate enthusiast IMO...may he RIP.

ps, he obviously had cars he DID drive - last time I saw him he took my son for a ride in his NSX.

Dave

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Sure there is, it depends on the financial wherewithall of the individual. If someone is buying expensive cars rather than feeding his kids, or paying to properly educate and care for them, then he is not "owning" the car the right way.

You know what I meant.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I don't think the ppl doing it even realize it themselves lol. The OP said every 20 mths, so what kinda tech advances take place in that period when placement of cupholders is a big talking pt in this relatively slow-progressing industry? You're not going from a Model T to a Tesla in that period lol.

Ppl don't appreciate cars if switching that often, it's just an accessory for them. Has nothing to do w being rich either. Lots of rich ppl keep cars and there are lots of them that change like underwear also, but look at the demographics and see who are the more enthusiasts of the 2.

20 months is a bit too soon I agree. But still, there are advancements being made all the time. DCT transmissions taking off in 2009 after the GTR arrived, rear wheel steer in the 2014 GT3 was a big hit, carbon fiber tubs in the 2013 McLaren, carbon ceramic brakes replacing steel on some of the late 2000s cars, and now EV cars running faster track times that M cars.

As for who is an enthusiast and who isn't its hard to say. I know guys that, while they don't know much about mechanical stuff and wrenching... buy a new car every couple years and put a ton of miles on it. drive it rain or shine. go to meets and cruises.

And I also know guys who have put less than 10000 miles on their M3 or Rx7 in the last 3-4 years because its always on jack stands needing something fixed, they are always flying out of state working for months, or have new families and don't have time to use it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

You know what I meant.

No, I didn't really. The OP brought up the financial component of owning an automobile. I was keeping within that realm. If you meant there is no wrong or right reason why one wants to own a car, then yes, I agree with you; we all have freedom of choice here in the USA.

My criteria is to get a car that fits my needs and desire for a fine driving experience at the lowest possible cost per mile.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

20 months is a bit too soon I agree. But still, there are advancements being made all the time. DCT transmissions taking off in 2009 after the GTR arrived, rear wheel steer in the 2014 GT3 was a big hit, carbon fiber tubs in the 2013 McLaren, carbon ceramic brakes replacing steel on some of the late 2000s cars, and now EV cars running faster track times that M cars.

Ya, but that's what im saying, they don't like the car they have and just want the latest/greatest, e.g. carbon tub? Not prevalent at all and does that mean if the original car doesn't have it one has to immediately jump into one they has it? W/i that relatively short timeframe, it's really telling. Makes one wonder why they got the car in the first place, they obviously don't care about it if dumping it for the next one in 20 mths.

[Redd]

I've been watching this thread for a while and think it's time to chime in.

A few years ago, I was where the OP appears to be now. Slightly bored with his current ride, and disillusioned at all the new cars on the market which had no soul. I had just come off an Alfa 156 V6 not long ago, and was then driving a Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo Plus. So, since I had had a particularly good sales year, I decided that I was going to get a classic car. One with soul.

I knew I wanted a classic Alfa Romeo, something from the 70s. Stepnoses were far too rare and expensive, so I got myself a 1972 GT Junior 1600 in decent running condition. Like any self respecting 'car enthusiast', I took it upon myself to restore the car to her original glory. I was going to give this car a new lease of life. Nothing but the best parts, all original of course. Complete engine rebuild and a new interior were in the plans.

I might as well have just rolled my money into joints and smoked it. If you've never owned a classic car, nothing will prepare you for the hassles of keeping a classic car running. Parts are impossible to find. And when they are available, sellers price them like angel feathers. Finding a mechanic who's even willing to work on your dual 45mm Weber carbs is one thing. When you find him, he's likely to think of himself as a rock star, and he will work on your project when he damn well feels like working on it. Any time frame you might have had to get the car restored immediately goes out the window.

Then there's the driving. You see nicely restored classics at car meets all the time. Half the time, the owners don't know if the car will even survive the drive to the meet. The other half don't know if they will survive the drive back. Lol. So that rules out a classic being your one and only car. Most of the classic owners I know who have successfully restored their cars wind up parking their cars more often than driving them; maybe popping the car cover off once in a while to take a look at his kid's college fund parked in his garage. So, most of the time, a classic car becomes just bragging rights - I had the time and money to pour into this project, and that makes me a bigger 'car enthusiast' than the next Joe.

So, after a few years of my GT Junior being parked at the workshop in a half completed state, I decided to hang up my 'car enthusiast' creds and sold the Alfa. You have to be seriously committed to start a classic car project; some say you should be 'committed' if you want to get into classic cars. Lol

So don't think that everything old is gold. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. I'm enjoying my [relatively] modern M3 with aircon, Waze and Spotify streaming, giving a thumbs up to the old chap in his classic 2002, thinking "you have more courage than me".

[Meeni]

That's assuming that's a new phenomenon. Not clear at all that attraction to the newest shiny object is particularly new or even particularly more prevalent than it was during the 80's for example.

[Savageenterprise]

Originally Posted by The0pportunist

I agree to an extent.

I keep my cars for 4-5 years, i would love to keep it longer but circumstances change and it's difficult to find a car that does it all.

Example: My 2 door coupe which is my dream car will soon need to be replaced by a 4 door when the baby pops out or as my parents get older and less mobile they won't be able to climb into my low slung coupe (already struggling).

Maybe when i can justify a 2nd car i can keep hold for much much longer.

I’m with you. If I could have two cars, one being my “dream car” and another one that was either pre owned or leased, I’d probably keep the dream car forever. But when you have a single car as life progresses, circumstances change. It’s not realistic to be able to hold onto one single car for countless years unless you have another car that you can drive/rely on/have fun in etc.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Savageenterprise

I’m with you. If I could have two cars, one being my “dream car” and another one that was either pre owned or leased, I’d probably keep the dream car forever. But when you have a single car as life progresses, circumstances change. It’s not realistic to be able to hold onto one single car for countless years unless you have another car that you can drive/rely on/have fun in etc.

Well, if you own BMW, you need a second car for back up...

[10"]

Originally Posted by Meeni

That's assuming that's a new phenomenon. Not clear at all that attraction to the newest shiny object is particularly new or even particularly more prevalent than it was during the 80's for example.

Good point. But people interact more these days due to social media and video/photo sharing so the effect of this "flipping addiction" is more visible and more affecting towards others.

Personally I have seen a big decline in motoring culture in the past 5 years and I attribute some of this to attention deficit...

[10"]

Originally Posted by Redd

I've been watching this thread for a while and think it's time to chime in.

A few years ago, I was where the OP appears to be now. Slightly bored with his current ride, and disillusioned at all the new cars on the market which had no soul. I had just come off an Alfa 156 V6 not long ago, and was then driving a Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo Plus. So, since I had had a particularly good sales year, I decided that I was going to get a classic car. One with soul.

I knew I wanted a classic Alfa Romeo, something from the 70s. Stepnoses were far too rare and expensive, so I got myself a 1972 GT Junior 1600 in decent running condition. Like any self respecting 'car enthusiast', I took it upon myself to restore the car to her original glory. I was going to give this car a new lease of life. Nothing but the best parts, all original of course. Complete engine rebuild and a new interior were in the plans.

I might as well have just rolled my money into joints and smoked it. If you've never owned a classic car, nothing will prepare you for the hassles of keeping a classic car running. Parts are impossible to find. And when they are available, sellers price them like angel feathers. Finding a mechanic who's even willing to work on your dual 45mm Weber carbs is one thing. When you find him, he's likely to think of himself as a rock star, and he will work on your project when he damn well feels like working on it. Any time frame you might have had to get the car restored immediately goes out the window.

Then there's the driving. You see nicely restored classics at car meets all the time. Half the time, the owners don't know if the car will even survive the drive to the meet. The other half don't know if they will survive the drive back. Lol. So that rules out a classic being your one and only car. Most of the classic owners I know who have successfully restored their cars wind up parking their cars more often than driving them; maybe popping the car cover off once in a while to take a look at his kid's college fund parked in his garage. So, most of the time, a classic car becomes just bragging rights - I had the time and money to pour into this project, and that makes me a bigger 'car enthusiast' than the next Joe.

So, after a few years of my GT Junior being parked at the workshop in a half completed state, I decided to hang up my 'car enthusiast' creds and sold the Alfa. You have to be seriously committed to start a classic car project; some say you should be 'committed' if you want to get into classic cars. Lol

So don't think that everything old is gold. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. I'm enjoying my [relatively] modern M3 with aircon, Waze and Spotify streaming, giving a thumbs up to the old chap in his classic 2002, thinking "you have more courage than me".

Great story! Just to clarify I'm not bored with my car I'm in love with it and plan to keep it forever.

I AM however filled with a giant itch to get a classic car at some point. It will likely be something obscure and French so it will also then be broken often!!! Haha! So your commentary definitely resonates.

That being said the primary plan for me is to make my own current modern car a "classic car" as the years go by. After all these cars are owned by someone originally and my idea is to age with my car. So in 2036 (assuming I am alive lol) my 1M will be 25 years old and definitely a "classic car". My primary point was why people are so afraid to keep a car. In 2019 many people seem to rush out and sell/trade a car the second it passes warranty. EVEN if they love the car—-it's something I don't understand.

Thanks for your post

[10"]

Originally Posted by DPelletier

IMO, there are many different ways to be an "enthusiast" and I'm not sure any one way is better than the others....particularly since everyone's circumstances are different. I had a friend (sadly passed from Cancer a couple years ago) with an extensive car collection, like 20 cars - several of which were worth well into the 7 figure mark. These were classic cars from the '60's, mostly low mileage "survivors" and he never drove most of them. I was in his warehouse looking at his stuff and I asked him how one particular car drove....he responded by telling me he had never even sat in that particular car. Many people would rant that if he didn't drive the cars, he wasn't a real "enthusiast" but I disagreed, and still do: he enjoyed collecting, restoring and owning the cars and related memorabilia and the fact he didn't drive them all didn't make him any less of an enthusiast in my eyes. The guy's passion for these cars spanned decades and he spent countless hours searching, doing research and finding rare parts for these cars.....He was a consumate enthusiast IMO...may he RIP.

ps, he obviously had cars he DID drive - last time I saw him he took my son for a ride in his NSX.

Dave

I concede there are "enthusiasts" like this who just keep cars and never drive them. I find stories like that to be more on the sad side. I try to stay in the moment and live in the moment. Your friend (RIP) never even sat in a car he owned!!?? That's so impossible for me to even contemplate.

[10"]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i guess what I'm trying to grasp is how you know that you only want a certain type of car? Have you test driven all the cars on your bucket list to see how they would do in real world scenarios? The seating position, the view out the window, how the steering feels, how the car makes you feel, how much does the interior rattle or let in tire noise, etc... these are all things that someone can't tell you about. you just have to experience the car.

-I was a hater on the e92 when it came out (boooo all M3s should have an I-6)
-I hated on the F80 when it came out (wtf is bmw doing going turbo)
-I hated on 911s because 'they look like every other porsche'.... now I'm looking to trade my 458 in on a 6 speed gt3.

Point is I've hated on a lot of cars... but after giving some of them a fair shake i really started to like them. things change and people change. I feel like some people here would rotate between the same 5 porno videos the rest of their life because they know what they like and that's final.

Fair point. I DO test drive cars often

I have driven a fair number of cars...and I keep my radar on all the time. For example I 'liked' the Cayman GTS I drove but it didn't really win my heart over. My threshold for actually buying a car is high. I have to be obsessed with it. Literally every car I've bought I was obsessed with prior to buying...

To your point though—-YES one should explore cars to know what they like and I do. I just don't think buying/flipping cars is the way to do that.