[m630]

Originally Posted by 宝马.e90

@M630

I'm sure for some it's all about the badge but I know for others, especially the enthusiasts here, it goes beyond that. Those who follow BMW and M, it's about the history and they don't believe it should be messed with. You can say it's just a badge but you can't ignore the fact that, to the car community, the M has meaning. It's supposed to represent the halo car. So when you introduce the M Performance line, it's almost a slap in the face, not because you might see M badges everywhere, but instead it's a slap to the history of what M stands for. I just don't see why they would need to have this new line when they had a another model that worked and made sense.

That's just me.

I 100% agree with you, Im in the same camp, but Ive accepted that we cannot do anything about it. Im a life long enthusiast in BMW and M and cannot believe the direction they've taken with the engines, which is the true heart of the M. I will spite myself by not getting the new breed of M because I dont agree with FI on an M car from a traditional, historical point of view, and after 30+ years of defending NA, Im not going to back down and go for the FI versions now being contemplated and offered.
However, I could care less about the body packaging, that is all about poseurs and posing and I'll stand by that 100%. A car can look exactly like my M6 and have letters and aero kits to make one look like my M6, but its not an M6 and I know it, and thats all that really matters and should matter. If its not an M6, it doenst drive like an M6 and doesnt have the feel of the M6 and that doesnt affect me at all.

I hear you on the slaps, but again, thats an American thing more than anyting, in Europe and the rest of the world, they have always had M packages and M emblems all over their cars, even their smallest and entry level offerings, but it was BMW NA, because of enthusiast pressure in the past that caused them to sometimes not offer the Msport packs here in the states. M is BMW, I cant stress that enough, if not for BMW, there is no M, its a performance subdivision and design house, and in the world today where tuning and body kits are so lucritive as a market(just see SEMA) it makes all the sense in the world for BMW to do it themselves and keep the revenue in house.

BMW is a different company today than even 10 years ago, its a giant, and its growing, so many philosophies have changed as their focus has changed to be a global player of luxury performance cars, while in the past they were more of a performance car company with luxury added to fill a niche market.

We all have to make our own decisions as to whether this really bothers one so much that they will no longer support the brand, but at the end of the day, id still rather be driving a BMW, even if they're all called Ms..

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by e92_m3

Just because the 135i acquired the N55 engine from the 335is, it does not mean it deserves the "M" name. They should call it a 135is.

Just my $0.02.

they called it the 1m

[adc]

The big news seems to be the new tri-turbo diesel engine. Other than that, are these cars basically an M Sport package together with the BMW performance tunes? Or simply "is" cars, but with a stronger branding name?

I hope BMW settles on one clear direction and sticks with it. A few years ago they announced the "tii" line of cars, which then somehow morphed into the "is" line of cars, now the M Performance... I am also concerned that this will signal a massive increase in the price of the "real" M cars.

[kmarei]

so can i have an MM3M?
for the ultimate M version ?

[stefan]

Originally Posted by m630

Its not insulting at all unless one is posing, I grew up the same way loving the brand and the cars, and have owned them for my past 20+ years on the road. Its a fact, when you are envious of someone else, its comical. If it affects you, find another brand, but theres nothing that you or I can do to change this. I was a hater when M announced trucks and turbos and I wont be buying the new M6 due to this change in engine philosophy, but its not the case that I wont by another BMW, I just know now that the company has a different focus and I dont have to have the M to enjoy my ride. Time marches on, you either accept it or it pass you by, but it wont change. Just appreciate what you have and dont worry that I have something as nice, or nicer, it doesnt affect your life, and that my only point. There is no exclusivity in these cars, just in ones mind.

Well that's sort of what I mean, as they are losing a customer. I'm not sure if M offers the kind of approach I'd be interested in again for as repeat buyer of my next vehicle. I get it, as they are probably gaining 4 fans for every 1 purist lost. Plenty of other cars to choose from so I'm not too worried. I don't think that rationale is funny or weird in any way.

[mkoesel]

In time, I would not be surprised to see BMW replace what we currently think of as the top trim level of each current model in the range with an M Performance model. In other words, sometime in the future, perhaps the 335i will go away and there will just be a M335i (or M340i). Similarly, the 550i may go away, replaced by an M550i.

This would be similar to what Audi has done (at least in the US), with the latest generation S4, S5, S6, S7. I.e. the 6 cylinder A4/A5 is the S4/S5 (and yes, I know the coupe still has the V8 for now), and the 8 cylinder A6/A7 is the S6/S7. Of course, the S models offer other enhancements from the A models too (such as suspension, brakes), just as will BMW performance models vs. normal series models.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by m630

Its not insulting at all unless one is posing, I grew up the same way loving the brand and the cars, and have owned them for my past 20+ years on the road. Its a fact, when you are envious of someone else, its comical. If it affects you, find another brand, but theres nothing that you or I can do to change this. I was a hater when M announced trucks and turbos and I wont be buying the new M6 due to this change in engine philosophy, but its not the case that I wont by another BMW, I just know now that the company has a different focus and I dont have to have the M to enjoy my ride. Time marches on, you either accept it or it pass you by, but it wont change. Just appreciate what you have and dont worry that I have something as nice, or nicer, it doesnt affect your life, and that my only point. There is no exclusivity in these cars, just in ones mind.

If see what you're saying but I don't think it's the same. BMW's switch to FI needed to be done for regulation purposes and seeing that FI was going to be the future. You nor BMW couldn't change/control that. By switching to FI, their focus of what a M car didn't change. BMW doesn't need to introduce a M Performance line. What BMW is doing with the M badge is changing what it stands for. It's either a M car or it isn't, there shouldn't be a M-lite.

Again, like you, as a driver, it doesn't really affect me because I know what I'm driving but to those who are really into the heritage, it really does hurt to see this happening.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

As I said above, Audi also has S Line which could be said to dilute the S brand in the same way that MSport could be argued to dilute the M brand.

I don't really think those two really dilute their respective brands. For the most part, it's really just an appearance thing with a difference between the package and the actual model.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by 宝马.e90

I don't really think those two really dilute their respective brands. For the most part, it's really just an appearance thing with a difference between the package and the actual model.

He mentioned MSport, that's why I pointed it out. M Sport is the same type of thing - strictly appearance. The point is, by using the S brand in the name of their appearance package, Audi does the same thing BMW does by using the M brand in the name of their appearance package.

[aajami]

BMW has been telegraphing this move since the introduction of the X5M and X6M. And now it's official: The M badge means nothing anymore.

Pardon my ignorance, but...

"We are targeting our efforts at customers looking for more emotionality and more performance, but who don't want to forgo the everyday usability of their cars," said Dr. Friedrich Nitschke, President of BMW M GmbH

...wasn't that what every BMW was supposed to represent?! Isn't that the reason people buy BMWs to begin with?

[cmichaelo]

IMO, this announcement is rooted in near-sighted bottom line issue. I'm fearing this is the end for the true //M cars as the //M cars are now officially on their way to bland land just like we saw it with Audi's S models.

The last true //M cars from BMW were the E36 M3 and the E86 Z4 M coupe.

The E46 M3 was borderline with its huge comfy seats and plush interior. The engine and handling made up for it though.

The E92 M3 is just a plain sell out, in spite of the spectacular engine and handling.

But starting with the E92 M3 the //M brand started eroding really fast after that... with the X5M, X6M, bla bla.

I'm trying to find something positive in all this. But all I see is //M dilution...

--M

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

He mentioned MSport, that's why I pointed it out. M Sport is the same type of thing - strictly appearance. The point is, by using the S brand in the name of their appearance package, Audi does the same thing BMW does by using the M brand in the name of their appearance package.

I agree. I was just voicing my opinion that personally, I don't think M-Sport and S-Line really dilutes the names because their focus is strictly aesthetics.

It think the focus on what M is remains the same - performance. I just don't agree with how BMW is applying it.

[Steve335i]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

He mentioned MSport, that's why I pointed it out. M Sport is the same type of thing - strictly appearance. The point is, by using the S brand in the name of their appearance package, Audi does the same thing BMW does by using the M brand in the name of their appearance package.

Well not exactly. There is and should be a performance bump like the N54- equipped 335is.

You M-snobs should get over yourselves. Having a little M badge on the wheels, steering wheel and M doorsills doesn't dilute the exclusivity of an M car. Anyone who cares anything about performance cars will know the difference. Only the poseurs won't.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by username11

I thought this was what M did already. What is new here?

Me too. An M truck was the beginning of the end for but let's face it the majority of M cars are ordered fully loaded with NAV, heated seats, crap, folding mirrors, leather, now even fake sound pumped into the cabin and automatic transmissions. BMW is now just giving everyone what the majority want.

Even the 1M that was supposed to be a back to basics M car, the majority were ordered fully loaded with power seats, back up sensors.

So no one should be surprised. You have been voting with your wallets by buying bloated, luxo-mobiles with automatics.

I know there are few guys on still want edgy, lighter cars that are more perfomance based, those are few and far between. So if you really don't like it, stop buying them and BMW will adapt. The backlash against the heavier, super expensive, bloated M cars led to the 1M but even then, most were fully loaded too....so who knows now.

Vote with your wallets and BMW will build it....or not build it.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by kmarei

they called it the 1m

For your information, the 1M has a N54 engine not N55 and it has been tuned by M division like the rest of the car. In case you are interested with the facts as well as opinions.

[Moo]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

For your information, the 1M has a N54 engine not N55 and it has been tuned by M division like the rest of the car. In case you are interested with the facts as well as opinions.

Your troll sensor must have been off

[BH_Fanaticos77]

To me it all seems to be very related to Audi's split with S and RS models. As we know Audi is much stronger in Europe and around the world than it is here in US, even though we see the incline of the brand in last decade.

In a sense M had been compared to S model for a long time in the past and where RS models were more extreme. Comparing performance wise RS to M could be done but as we all know RS was much more expensive than M and the production was much lower for the RS cars. In the whole practical and financial sense M was compared to S.

Now, we know recently that has changed and Audi S models lost, performance wise and dropped to be compared to more standard BMW models and where RS became more appropriate M competitor.

I believe BMW is trying to badge the models bit better for more appealing comparability with s models and consequently better sale outcomes.

[MUFCbmwbear]

I think these models should be designated simply with an IS Badge. I don't mind the m badges on the wheels, steering wheel etc. I had a 135i with all those things, but putting the M badge on the rear is over the line. Mark it 8 Donny!

[Mako]

Originally Posted by southlight

Yes, even though M Performance goes further by having both petrol and diesel models.


Best regards,
south

I thought Audi did have a super powered Diesel SUV with an S badge in Europe, maybe they didn't use the S Badge though... 450 horsepower or something like that and an insane price tag.

[Jason]

First post has been updated with a video interview with BMW M GmbH president, Dr. Friedrich Nitschke, in which he talks about the new M Performance Automobiles range.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634571

[Mako]

Originally Posted by i128

Agreed...

In addition, I'd like to know what % of people that drive BMWs are truly enthusiast? as opposed to badge whores.

There is something inbetween a badge whore and a true enthusiast though! I have driven a few M cars and a C63 right now, future plans on the next M3/M4 but I don't track my cars as many M buyers do not, so does that mean I am a badge whore? I think not, to me a badge whore is someone who has the cash to spend and thats why they buy the car but they have no intention of utilizing the cars power/abilities, I see it all the time in super expensive cars (caugh, porsche, caugh) where people drive slow as hell and flat out do not know how to drive, but they have the cash and want the nicest things... Do I gun it at every stop light, of course not, but when I have a nice open stretch or get pissed off at the Acura TL next to me, do I utilize my car, yes, yes I do! I like how the M/AMG/S cars handle and accelerate compared to the base versions, so am I a badge whore? Seems like that term is thrown around too much on these forums, and based on how the term is used 99% of M owners should be considered it,

I agree with another post saying there is a market between a 335i and M3 because the price difference for a fully loaded version of each is about $20K, I just don't like them using the M in the naming of it, its going to get too confusing. I guess we are all too used to the "M" and what it stood for in the past, Audi has had "S" and "RS" for a while although the "S" has been getting more and more watered down (used to compete with M, now it competes with "is"). Please BMW, rethink how you are going to name these in the US, I understand 335is, 135is don't market it the correct way, but M335, M135 is not the answer either, why not stick to what you do with the 5 series? 528i, 535i, 550i, whats wrong with a 150i or 350i?

How about RM3 ("R"eal M 3)

[southlight]

Originally Posted by Mako

I thought Audi did have a super powered Diesel SUV with an S badge in Europe, maybe they didn't use the S Badge though... 450 horsepower or something like that and an insane price tag.

They don't use the S badge for that one, it's called Q7 V12 TDI (yea, catchy ).


Best regards,
south

[adc]

Originally Posted by cmichaelo

The last true //M cars from BMW were the E36 M3 and the E86 Z4 M coupe.

The E46 M3 was borderline with its huge comfy seats and plush interior. The engine and handling made up for it though.

The E92 M3 is just a plain sell out, in spite of the spectacular engine and handling.

I fail to see the logic of how the E92 is a sell out, despite spectacular engine and handling - I mean, what else makes an M car???

And the E46 M3 had huge comfy seats and a plush interior? I mean, as opposed to the electric heated leather seats, OBC, CD/MP3, electro-chrome and heated mirrors and sunroof in the E36 or the heated leather seats, OBC, electric windows and sunroof in the E30? Your beloved Z4 M has just as many doodads as the E46, just with a harsher ride.

Lest you forget, the M cars have always been a mixed bag - they have mostly been expensive, luxurios, decent handling cars with superb engines, but they've always had the latest & greatest gadgets.

Think I'm exaggerating? Let's rewind the history reel a little... The first M car was a "sensible" supercar (think R8 of the day), but the next one a very luxurious sedan, then a boulevard Coupe, followed by a loaded up racer, then another big barge sedan, then a middle of the road coupe/sedan with a combination of sell out engine/race engine depending on where you live, then a big fat V8 stormer, etc.

Did I miss anything?