[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by kaputt

So Car and Driver basically thinks the M240i or Z4 is better than the M2?

Considering the Supra is a BMW, I have a hard time believing the steering feels different than the M2s...

Except it does have better steering feel because modern BMW's have zero feel, and Toyota tuned the steering separately from BMW. The car is essentially a re-tuned Z4, and tuning and can make change a car's driving dynamics more than most would think.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by super51fan

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...he-718-cayman/

Car and Driver compares the Supra to the M2C, GT350, and Cayman,

Spoiler:

1. GT350
2. Supra
3. Cayman
4. M2C

I remember the days when "driving appliances" jokes and "take them in the twisties" were used when talking about Toyotas an Ford Mustangs. Never imagined them being applied to the flagship sporty BMW.

Is a more dynamically engaging Toyota or a more capable twisties handling Mustang than a BMW M car the first or last sign of the impending apocalypse? Seems BMW ///M car can't even beat a BMW non-M car wearing a Toyota badge.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by The HACK

I remember the days when "driving appliances" jokes and "take them in the twisties" were used when talking about Toyotas an Ford Mustangs. Never imagined them being applied to the flagship sporty BMW.

Is a more dynamically engaging Toyota or a more capable twisties handling Mustang than a BMW M car the first or last sign of the impending apocalypse? Seems BMW ///M car can't even beat a BMW non-M car wearing a Toyota badge.

Maybe you should have read the article.

"To see what sort of perform*ance $60,000 buys and which car deserves your money, we climbed into the Sierra Nevada and Sequoia National Park on roads so tight, there were stretches where you couldn't break the 55-mph speed limit if you wanted to. Under a canopy of massive trees, we found four perform*ance heroes, each with its own exceptional abilities. None of them deserved to lose this test, but one had to."

"Yet it's the M2 that packs the most bandwidth into its tachometer, making it the perfect partner for the six-speed manual transmission. The M2 rockets out of corners even when you've picked the wrong gear, and it builds revs with the crescendo of a naturally aspirated engine."

"the M2 scored the quickest quarter-mile run of this group, stopping the clock in 12.4 seconds at 116 mph. And the engine's intense surge is always ready to strike. "

[eluded]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

Except it does have better steering feel because modern BMW's have zero feel, and Toyota tuned the steering separately from BMW. The car is essentially a re-tuned Z4, and tuning and can make change a car's driving dynamics more than most would think.

Agreed. Friend has a Cadillac with same EPS HW as mine. Feels like night and day.

[supra93]

Sales for September were posted today.

Supra - 514 units
Z4 - 247 units

https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-...er-2019-sales/
http://www.bmwusanews.com/newsrelease.do?id=3504&mid=

[clee1982]

how many they want to sale a year again?

[VA Jay]

Makes me wonder if the press cars are retuned like Ferrari does with their vehicles.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by eluded

Agreed. Friend has a Cadillac with same EPS HW as mine. Feels like night and day.

Yep, I remember reading that the ATS-V (which is one of my favorite hi-po sport sedans in the class) uses a similar rack as the F8X, I believe they're both ZF racks, and the tuning creates a night and day difference. The ATS/ATS-V has some of the best modern EPS, meanwhile BMW has some of the worst.

[supra93]

Originally Posted by clee1982

how many they want to sale a year again?

I have no idea on the BMW side, but word on the internet is 10k for North America (US, CDN, Méx) for a full 1st year of sales. Since 2019 basically only has 5 months we were told around 5k units, but in reality they'll probably fall a little short at around the 4k mark.

[Humdizzle]

listened to Matt Farrah's latest podcast.

Says he drank the Toyota Kool-Aid initially and that Toyota pretty much lied about their press info. Says the supra drives the same as an M2c, but the M2 gets the manual and more interior room and more trunk space.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

listened to Matt Farrah's latest podcast.

Says he drank the Toyota Kool-Aid initially and that Toyota pretty much lied about their press info. Says the supra drives the same as an M2c, but the M2 gets the manual and more interior room and more trunk space.

That seems about as asinine as saying that the E89 Z4 drove like the 1M.

[$hah$]

Originally Posted by Shiza

Unfortunate. How awesome would an updated version of this been? (MKIV interior)

Drool.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

listened to Matt Farrah's latest podcast.

Says he drank the Toyota Kool-Aid initially and that Toyota pretty much lied about their press info. Says the supra drives the same as an M2c, but the M2 gets the manual and more interior room and more trunk space.

I didn't realize people still cared about what he had to say. Watch his video of him driving the Supra on track at the press event they had a few months ago.

It was sad to see how bad his driving is when he's not gushing to an owner for letting him drive their car.

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I didn't realize people still cared about what he had to say. Watch his video of him driving the Supra on track at the press event they had a few months ago.

It was sad to see how bad his driving is when he's not gushing to an owner for letting him drive their car.

Could never stand him. Still don't.

[zx10guy]

Ran across this. Not sure if this is a sign of things to come.

[supra93]

[The Outrage]

Toyota has been able to successfully convince many journalists and the public at large that their badge-engineered sports vehicles (FR-S, Supra) are bespoke Toyota creations, despite fairly minor revisions from their donor vehicles. Conversely, FIAT partnered with Mazda in the creation of the 124 Spider and has been less successful in this regard despite the vehicle using a unique engine and drivetrain.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Ran across this. Not sure if this is a sign of things to come.

There's more than meets the eye on this story.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by The Outrage

Toyota has been able to successfully convince many journalists and the public at large that their badge-engineered sports vehicles (FR-S, Supra) are bespoke Toyota creations, despite fairly minor revisions from their donor vehicles. Conversely, FIAT partnered with Mazda in the creation of the 124 Spider and has been less successful in this regard despite the vehicle using a unique engine and drivetrain.

Where have they said they have been bespoke Toyota creations? They don't even put effort into convincing others of what they did do, let alone claim they are bespoke Toyota products.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by The HACK

There's more than meets the eye on this story.

Care to share? I only posted this up as something I ran across. If you have info, why not spill it?

[supra93]

[pikkagtr]

Welp that didn't take long .....
Went to the local Toyota for the first service on the beater 2020 Corolla SE and took a sales guy down for some numbers
Guess Supra LEs with premium pack can be had for around $2k below msrp now
Hard pass , still can't get over all them fake vents