[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

How do you guys feel about abortion?

Troll level 500. But funny.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

You attributed this to me:

More children killed by dogs than by guns??


I never said it. So are you disingenuous intentionally? Seems so since you fail to recognize how you framed that.

No, I asked you a question. Your point that some children have been killed by big dogs is just a diversion from the massively larger #s of hominids killed by guns.

Murf

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

First I wouldn't know what NRA talking points are....
And with all the new laws in NJ the last 20 years has violence been reduced? I don't know. But if not let's blame Ohio. Yeah, that's the political escape.

For a start, maybe you should know about the positions the NRA takes, because you are a citizen, & the NRA exerts lots of power on your reps. Maybe then you would see how certain members of congress have made gun companies exempt from many liability laws, how congress forbids spending $ studying the safety & health affects of guns in society, the Russian $ funneled through the NRA, that crazy ex-felon marine they have in power, etc.

I don't know about Jersey, but gun violence in Brklyn is way down; sounds like it must be lower than in many parts of the USA, going by the fear factor. Party because Bloomburg, coordinating with other states & localities, got down bigly on the I-95 gun-runners.
It's nice to feel safe; I wish it for all of you.

Murf

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by Turkish Pickle

How unsafe are you guys' cities that you need a gun to feel safe when grabbing dinner or you carry "in case someone i know gets raped"?

That's just excessive, don't you think?

It doesn't matter how safe it is. Criminals will try to catch you off guard. The easiest victims are the naive ones in condition white all the time thinking nothing can happen to them. If you and others want to be a soft target then be my guest, but it'll be a cold day in hell when someone thinks they can try and victimize my loved ones or me without any resistance.

Situational awareness should be maintained at all times regardless of location and conditions.

You can live in the safest city in the world, but it only takes one moment for you to become a victim.

Firearm=insurance. The odds of getting into a car accident are slim, but you're still insured for that small possibility you get into an accident. Same applies to firearms.

I do agree though that people shouldn't carry unless they are trained and educated enough on firearms. But if idiots are allowed to drive cars (much greater fatality rate than guns) without proper education and training...

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

How do you guys feel about abortion?

I wish I was around to talk with your mother about it way back when.... (ducking, (& only kidding)).

Murf

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by paliknight

... If you and others want to be a soft target then be my guest, but it'll be a cold day in hell when someone thinks they can try and victimize my loved ones or me without any resistance.

Firearm=insurance. The odds of getting into a car accident are slim, but you're still insured for that small possibility you get into an accident. Same applies to firearms.

I do agree though that people shouldn't carry unless they are trained and educated enough on firearms. But if idiots are allowed to drive cars (much greater fatality rate than guns) without proper education and training...

From the top:
Nobody wants you to sit on your hands & offer no resistance. But "resistance' can start with proper laws that minimize the danger. No need to regress back to the dark ages.

Considering that households with guns are more dangerous than those without, what kind of insurance are you after?

I agree that good folks should be able to have guns. Mandate good storage, dispose of like you do old motor oil (ie: will do no harm down the road). Add a tiny chihuahua that would wake you in plenty of time to unlock your arsenal.

We Americans get angry when Mexico sends up drugs, but our responsible states can't get angry at the lax states for not controlling their old guns?

Murf

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

My post still stands.
About the time I moved to the Lower East Side of Manhattan, I bought a heavy bag & gloves. When we moved to Brklyn, we got a capable dog.
Seeing us walking the street was more of a deterrent than some scared person packing a hidden gun, and safer to others, also.

Murf

Did you start polling criminals you passed by to see how many of them, statistically, were deterred more by your big dog, as opposed to a gun?

If not then you're just using anecdotal evidence to make a point.

Everyone's experiences differ. Just because you've been privileged enough to never be in a situation where a gun is needed, doesn't make it applicable to everyone.

For example, most restrictive gun laws globally are in Europe. That didn't stop the mass shootings that took place. Moreover, your big dog and your martial arts skills would have been of no help in those situations.

At the end of the day, if you happened to be unlucky enough to end up being victimized or witness a loved one being victimized, you may be rethinking whether or not it would have been better to have had a gun.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by paliknight

Did you start polling criminals you passed by to see how many of them, statistically, were deterred more by your big dog, as opposed to a gun?

If not then you're just using anecdotal evidence to make a point.

Everyone's experiences differ. Just because you've been privileged enough to never be in a situation where a gun is needed, doesn't make it applicable to everyone.

For example, most restrictive gun laws globally are in Europe. That didn't stop the mass shootings that took place. Moreover, your big dog and your martial arts skills would have been of no help in those situations.

At the end of the day, if you happened to be unlucky enough to end up being victimized or witness a loved one being victimized, you may be rethinking whether or not it would have been better to have had a gun.

Of course it's anecdotal! Ask a cop how many drivers slow down when they see his car, vs how many wiz past if the cop is hidden.

Europe has way less mass shootings, & gun violence than we in the USA. Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

If you happen to know someone robbed, mugged, or worse, by someone using a gun that got through the lax laws some places have, you might think differently, too.

Murf

[M5Rick]

Don't need to go to my gun shop, got about 1000 rounds.

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

For a start, maybe you should know about the positions the NRA takes, because you are a citizen, & the NRA exerts lots of power on your reps. Maybe then you would see how certain members of congress have made gun companies exempt from many liability laws, how congress forbids spending $ studying the safety & health affects of guns in society, the Russian $ funneled through the NRA, that crazy ex-felon marine they have in power, etc.

I don't know about Jersey, but gun violence in Brklyn is way down; sounds like it must be lower than in many parts of the USA, going by the fear factor. Party because Bloomburg, coordinating with other states & localities, got down bigly on the I-95 gun-runners.
It's nice to feel safe; I wish it for all of you.

Murf

So is violent crime zero? Because until people feel 100% safe they don't feel safe and many may then take precautions to make themselves safe or at least feel safe.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Don't need to go to my gun shop, got about 1000 rounds.

Rookie, gotta up those numbers

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

No, I asked you a question. Your point that some children have been killed by big dogs is just a diversion from the massively larger #s of hominids killed by guns.

Murf

The point I was making with that statement was not a comparison. That your comment that "houses with guns have more gun deaths". I pointed out houses with big dogs have more big dog deaths. To expand so you get it:

Houses with electricity have more electrocutions
Houses with pools have more drownings
Houses with stairs have more falls.
etc

Somehow you equated that with numbers. Since I have no legitimate data on the subject that wasn't my intent at all.

So let's take it down a notch. I will assume you aren't trying to put words in my mouth.

Of course if there are guns there will be accidents and if not none. I'll return to the original premise. Not everyone has the option to be a boxer and keep large dogs as defense.

And yes of course - everything has benefits and responsibilities. I presume you wouldn't want everyone to own large aggressive dog breeds as you are very aware they require socialization and attention that many can't give them. And I want everyone that owns guns to do so responsibly.

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

For a start, maybe you should know about the positions the NRA takes, because you are a citizen, & the NRA exerts lots of power on your reps. Maybe then you would see how certain members of congress have made gun companies exempt from many liability laws, how congress forbids spending $ studying the safety & health affects of guns in society, the Russian $ funneled through the NRA, that crazy ex-felon marine they have in power, etc.

I don't know about Jersey, but gun violence in Brklyn is way down; sounds like it must be lower than in many parts of the USA, going by the fear factor. Party because Bloomburg, coordinating with other states & localities, got down bigly on the I-95 gun-runners.
It's nice to feel safe; I wish it for all of you.

Murf

Why should I know how a lobby group thinks? I also don't read talking points from pro/anti abortion groups or other subjects. And some of what you accuse them of sounds a lot like the debunked theory that the "Russians" are behind Trump. Need to stay off the conspiracies.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

Why should I know how a lobby group thinks? I also don't read talking points from pro/anti abortion groups or other subjects. And some of what you accuse them of sounds a lot like the debunked theory that the "Russians" are behind Trump. Need to stay off the conspiracies.

'nuff said.

Best, Murf

[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

Why should I know how a lobby group thinks? I also don't read talking points from pro/anti abortion groups or other subjects. And some of what you accuse them of sounds a lot like the debunked theory that the "Russians" are behind Trump. Need to stay off the conspiracies.

The Russians may not be "behind Trump", and 2A rights is certainly good debate material, but let's avoid just labeling things you don't want to believe as conspiracy theories. Russian meddling in our elections has been confirmed by every one of our intelligence communities and is an existential threat to our democracy. You can be a MAGA cap wearing Trump fan, that's fine. But at least acknowledge that Russians are meddling. I'm 100% sure Trump isn't conspiring with Russia directly, but both GOP and Dema have fully acknowledged that Russia meddled in 2016 and seem to favor Trump winning. No one except for some Fox News pundits deny it. Even Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan wholeheartedly agree.

[1MOREMOD]

So is everyone else inside and outside our country. This forum is meddling

[jh_f30]

This thread was in my subs because I posted very early on. Got sucked in and read the whole thing. (I blame self-isolation boredom). My neck hurts from shaking my head. Understanding I'm not going to change any minds on their stance on gun laws, and expressing my views will likely only further the diatribe...

UNSUB'D!

Have fun everyone. Be healthy and stay safe! Go for a nice backroad drive. Wash or tinker with you car, now's as good a time as any for a full diy detail/paint correction. Do what you can to stay sane...which for me is pulling out of this thread.

[Littlebear]

I have to go watch my stocks go down now.

Murf

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

The point I was making with that statement was not a comparison. That your comment that "houses with guns have more gun deaths". I pointed out houses with big dogs have more big dog deaths. To expand so you get it:

Houses with electricity have more electrocutions
Houses with pools have more drownings
Houses with stairs have more falls.
etc

Somehow you equated that with numbers. Since I have no legitimate data on the subject that wasn't my intent at all.

So let's take it down a notch. I will assume you aren't trying to put words in my mouth.

Of course if there are guns there will be accidents and if not none. I'll return to the original premise. Not everyone has the option to be a boxer and keep large dogs as defense.

And yes of course - everything has benefits and responsibilities. I presume you wouldn't want everyone to own large aggressive dog breeds as you are very aware they require socialization and attention that many can't give them. And I want everyone that owns guns to do so responsibly.

Got that one right, singer Phil Collins just escaped becoming a cripple when he fell down stairs at home.

[Conissah]

I've been wanting to buy a pistol for a while, but with all this going down, it's even more incentive. Problem is I don't have a pistol permit, nor am I sure I will have time for it to get approved... My buddy has a Polymer80 G19 he just built, I could just buy the parts and have him dremel it out, but the 80% rule is sketch to me.

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

The Russians may not be "behind Trump", and 2A rights is certainly good debate material, but let's avoid just labeling things you don't want to believe as conspiracy theories. Russian meddling in our elections has been confirmed by every one of our intelligence communities and is an existential threat to our democracy. You can be a MAGA cap wearing Trump fan, that's fine. But at least acknowledge that Russians are meddling. I'm 100% sure Trump isn't conspiring with Russia directly, but both GOP and Dema have fully acknowledged that Russia meddled in 2016 and seem to favor Trump winning. No one except for some Fox News pundits deny it. Even Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan wholeheartedly agree.

I am not a maga hat Trump fanatic. Yes, I had to vote for him over Hillary and will likely over Biden. And sure, I buy the Russians meddle in our elections. That is pretty clear. So do the Chinese. Israelis too most likely.

The conspiracy part is that Trump colluded with them. Pretty sure the investigation cleared that up for all but but those that have a visceral hatred of Trump. Trump is a lot of things but a Russian shill isn't one of them. IMO.

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by Conissah

I've been wanting to buy a pistol for a while, but with all this going down, it's even more incentive. Problem is I don't have a pistol permit, nor am I sure I will have time for it to get approved... My buddy has a Polymer80 G19 he just built, I could just buy the parts and have him dremel it out, but the 80% rule is sketch to me.

I didn't know NC required a special permit to buy a pistol. I thought it was one of the less restrictive states.