[chad86tsi]

Please reconcile the following contradictory reasoning:

Originally Posted by akin67

who cares what car wins that race. Most of your BMW drivers are driving 10,000 miles a year where 70%+ is local driving.

Originally Posted by akin67

There will come a point where the EVs will have far better performance than anything an ICE vehicle can match.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

How did we get from the point where the car was a form of transportation and expression and family and pleasure to now a guilt and a source of carbon and harm . There's something fundamentally gone wrong in a short period of time where the very thing that's helped us and that we revere are to be despised of.

A way forward is to join a motorists action group like I have and campaign to overturn this crazy ruling.

[M3WC]

2022 - Mary Barra...we will catch and pass Tesla by 2025.

Today - Mary Barra in earnings call...GM plans to produce 400,000 EVs over the course of 2022, 2023, and the first half of 2024.

Meanwhile, Tesla 2022 total one year production - 1.37 million.


Also Bolt production announced to be ending. 20,670 EVs delivered in 2023 Q1. 19,700 of those were Bolts. 2 Hummers and 968 Lyriqs delivered. GM Ultium platform EV scaling is embarrassing. If this keeps up, Mary Barra won't last at GM.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by M3WC

2022 - Mary Barra...we will catch and pass Tesla by 2025.

Today - Mary Barra in earnings call...GM plans to produce 400,000 EVs over the course of 2022, 2023, and the first half of 2024.

Meanwhile, Tesla 2022 total one year production - 1.37 million.


Also Bolt production announced to be ending. 20,670 EVs delivered in 2023 Q1. 19,700 of those were Bolts. 2 Hummers and 968 Lyriqs delivered. GM Ultium platform EV scaling is embarrassing. If this keeps up, Mary Barra won't last at GM.

It’s my understanding that Anheuser-Busch is in need of some marketing higher-ups. Perhaps Mary could give them a shout.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Let's go tesla!

[R N M]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

There will def be ice post 2035 although a used market.

Once people see all the advantages an ev brings at that time, will be like ok fine I guess this might be better after all.

It’s simple psychology. People don’t like change. But change is good. And we’re going to run with it no matter if we want to or not.

2035 on the move!

You must have never visited NYC or any other densely populated city. There is zero charging network, most ppl parked their cars on the street. The majority of buildings are extremely old and most ppl can’t afford a new car let alone an EV. Also there are MANY countries around the world where ICE cars will continue to dominate.

This rush to EVs is nothing but a political play due to lobbyists and creating a whole new industry to make lots of money.

EVs definitely have a purpose and should be a vital segment like “Convertible” but they should not be forced on people. Free market is the only way, whenever governments intervene then bad things happen.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by R N M

You must have never visited NYC or any other densely populated city. There is zero charging network, most ppl parked their cars on the street. The majority of buildings are extremely old and most ppl can’t afford a new car let alone an EV. Also there are MANY countries around the world where ICE cars will continue to dominate.

This rush to EVs is nothing but a political play due to lobbyists and creating a whole new industry to make lots of money.

EVs definitely have a purpose and should be a vital segment like “Convertible” but they should not be forced on people. Free market is the only way, whenever governments intervene then bad things happen.

I literally live 10 minutes from the lincoln tunnel and i used to work in NYC by the UES. I totally know how densely populated this area is.

The problem with the arguments you guys are having and i know you're trying your best to come up with any scenario to give you guys false reassurance that this transition will never work, is that you're judging results of TODAY.

EVERY SINGLE thing improves as each day passes. You can't get anything new because the day you get something, the next day there's an improvement of that version already happening. This is with anything. Cars, phones, tv's, housing, everything.

For some odd reason, you guys are scared of this so called 2035 ban that you must think, when we all say, "HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! It's 2035!!" that poof, magically all ICE cars disappear from the streets, any ICE cars at dealerships disappear and whatever ICE cars you have at your house are taken away by the feds.

That won't happen. If this ban is set in stone in 2035, you will have a gigantic used market to drool over.

Maybe by then all your favorite cars will be easily attainable because gas cars will be a thing of the past as EV's will have GREATLY improved by then, in terms of charging times, weight, performance and overall tech, that i bet almost everyone who have posted in this thread, would have an electric car. Maybe even more than 1.

I love EV and i love gas. If the ban is set in stone in 2035, i already have my forever ICE car(s) that i'll keep until i'm old and/or too bored to want to keep and i'll just drive my EV's until i die.

Let's go elon!

[chad86tsi]

^ LOLLLLLLL

If only a comprehensive viable charging solution was going to come in 2035 too. They will call it the "un-inventium solution", because it's about to be invented, any day now...



Build it and they will come.

Well, good luck on that guys.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I literally live 10 minutes from the lincoln tunnel and i used to work in NYC by the UES. I totally know how densely populated this area is.

The problem with the arguments you guys are having and i know you're trying your best to come up with any scenario to give you guys false reassurance that this transition will never work, is that you're judging results of TODAY.

EVERY SINGLE thing improves as each day passes. You can't get anything new because the day you get something, the next day there's an improvement of that version already happening. This is with anything. Cars, phones, tv's, housing, everything.

For some odd reason, you guys are scared of this so called 2035 ban that you must think, when we all say, "HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! It's 2035!!" that poof, magically all ICE cars disappear from the streets, any ICE cars at dealerships disappear and whatever ICE cars you have at your house are taken away by the feds.

That won't happen. If this ban is set in stone in 2035, you will have a gigantic used market to drool over.

Maybe by then all your favorite cars will be easily attainable because gas cars will be a thing of the past as EV's will have GREATLY improved by then, in terms of charging times, weight, performance and overall tech, that i bet almost everyone who have posted in this thread, would have an electric car. Maybe even more than 1.

I love EV and i love gas. If the ban is set in stone in 2035, i already have my forever ICE car(s) that i'll keep until i'm old and/or too bored to want to keep and i'll just drive my EV's until i die.

Let's go elon!

So what is your solution to provide EV charging to Coop residents of Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens and Bronx. We are talking about millions of ppl. They are low to middle income on average. These folks park on the street and don’t have private garages or even a garage in their building.

Are we just going to buy all of them new EVs and a dedicated street charger. How about all the NYCHA / Section 8 buildings.

[Tejas1836]

Could you imagine Florida during a hurricane evacuation

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by R N M

So what is your solution to provide EV charging to Coop residents of Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens and Bronx. We are talking about millions of ppl. They are low to middle income on average. These folks park on the street and don’t have private garages or even a garage in their building.

Are we just going to buy all of them new EVs and a dedicated street charger. How about all the NYCHA / Section 8 buildings.

He doesn’t care man. Read back a few dozen pages. Most of us here have been having a decent discussion with about EV and his only input is we are afraid. Why people like him always accuse others with different opinions of having those opinions out the fear is beyond me. It’s freaking lame. But it’s more beyond that. For the most part he’s just a dozen pages into trolling. He’s the threads token troll.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

Could you imagine Florida during a hurricane evacuation

100%. As I keep saying, I will probably end up with at least one electric vehicle in my six car fleet at some point. But I assure you of this, during the hurricane evacuation that will not be my go to vehicle for obvious reasons.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by akin67

Putting the politics aside, this is where technology is going. Whether we like it or not, the future will be electric. There will come a point where the EVs will have far better performance than anything an ICE vehicle can match. They will be faster, have more features, better driving dynamics, more convenient to charge, drive longer on a charge than a fill-up, more reliable and easier to maintain. And it seems, except for the petroleum industry most people want this evolution to take place. Those who want to stick to ICE vehicles will still be able to for the rest of our lifetimes. You may have to pay a few bucks per gallon in additional taxes, but this is not going to be an issue for someone who is shelling out the kind of money needed to drive a BMW. Look at what happened to cigarettes. It used to be a $1 a pack and because of all the taxes it is closer to $15 today. Guess what, those who are passionate about smoking still do. This won't be any different.

What most people? Right now EV is around 7% of the market. EV has been in the market nearly 30 years now. There has yet to be a competitive EV product that matches or exceeds ICE as a complete replacement transportation solution when the market is looked at as a whole. ICE can meet anyone's transportation needs, EV cannot.

I've been following EV since before the GM EV1. EV has been and still is just a promise. It WILL be better, it WILL be faster, it WILL provide range, it WILL recharge in 5 minutes. I've been reading the same shit for 20 years; "it will come". People buy on the here and now, not on promises. If EV was ready, then there would be no proposed 2035 ICE ban, there'd be no tax rebates, there'd be no proposed EPA emissions regulations that essentially abolish ICE.

A new battery technology is on the horizon we've been told over and over. When it gets here, it's back to the top of the cost curve. The lithium ion tech has bottomed out on the cost curve and the average EV is $60K. It's great to be optimistic, but tech doesn't always get better and cheaper. I've not found one resource that walks through the engineering and cost curves that show EV get cheaper and offers as good or better performance than ICE (cost, recharge speed and range). It's just a promise, we have to believe, the Planet is at stake. Please. Lol.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

Could you imagine Florida during a hurricane evacuation

I can't even imagine Florida. Why don't they dig it up and build it smaller and higher?

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

What most people? Right now EV is around 7% of the market. EV has been in the market nearly 30 years now. There has yet to be a competitive EV product that matches or exceeds ICE as a complete replacement transportation solution when the market is looked at as a whole. ICE can meet anyone's transportation needs, EV cannot.

I've been following EV since before the GM EV1. EV has been and still is just a promise. It WILL be better, it WILL be faster, it WILL provide range, it WILL recharge in 5 minutes. I've been reading the same shit for 20 years; "it will come". People buy on the here and now, not on promises. If EV was ready, then there would be no proposed 2035 ICE ban, there'd be no tax rebates, there'd be no proposed EPA emissions regulations that essentially abolish ICE.

A new battery technology is on the horizon we've been told over and over. When it gets here, it's back to the top of the cost curve. The lithium ion tech has bottomed out on the cost curve and the average EV is $60K. It's great to be optimistic, but tech doesn't always get better and cheaper. I've not found one resource that walks through the engineering and cost curves that show EV get cheaper and offers as good or better performance than ICE (cost, recharge speed and range). It's just a promise, we have to believe, the Planet is at stake. Please. Lol.

100% disagree. That it is a solution for every situation is ridiculous. Neither is an F-350 or M4. EV1 was pie-in-the-sky and before it was practical. Now it is practical and working in many situations, not for 30 years, but regularly more like 10-15. The are working every day. Unlike EV1s.

[Cos270]

lol, yeah things are getting better everyday! Wages are going up! Cost of living is going down! There’s an increasing percentage of younger home owners over previous generations! Demographics aren’t changing at all! Infrastructure and city layout is ideal! People act like the current state of the tech is the only thing holding back EVs from taking over. It is such a multilayered situation, it’s practically impossible to consider all factors. Yet it’s seemingly the solution to all our problems! How asinine can we be?

[Tejas1836]

.gov could screw up an anvil

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by RM7

100% disagree. That it is a solution for every situation is ridiculous. Neither is an F-350 or M4. EV1 was pie-in-the-sky and before it was practical. Now it is practical and working in many situations, not for 30 years, but regularly more like 10-15. The are working every day. Unlike EV1s.

You missed my point; perhaps on purpose.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Cos270

lol, yeah things are getting better everyday! Wages are going up! Cost of living is going down! There’s an increasing percentage of younger home owners over previous generations! Demographics aren’t changing at all! Infrastructure and city layout is ideal! People act like the current state of the tech is the only thing holding back EVs from taking over. It is such a multilayered situation, it’s practically impossible to consider all factors. Yet it’s seemingly the solution to all our problems! How asinine can we be?

And in the span of about 12 years* we went from flying chimps in orbit to men driving an EV on the Moon.

*The Model S is in its 12th model year of production in 2023...

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by RM7

I can't even imagine Florida. Why don't they dig it up and build it smaller and higher?

Why would we do that? Florida is fine. Best state in the union. I’ll take our freedom over any other state and what they have any day of the week. Cracks me up when my colleagues from New Jersey roll their eyes as Florida as tens of thousands of their fellow citizens evacuate their state to Florida every month seeking asylum.

[M5Rick]

^ Few years ago we went to Miami (at the time when Houston flooded) and were surprised at the amount of stayers in our hotel from NY and NJ, not that surprised as when we waited for our connecting flight in Newark it was freezing there.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

^ Few years ago we went to Miami (at the time when Houston flooded) and were surprised at the amount of stayers in our hotel from NY and NJ, not that surprised as when we waited for our connecting flight in Newark it was freezing there.

Oh yes. All of south east Florida (not Miami) are refugees from New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Mostly Philadelphia. Not surprisingly it’s the worst run part of the state. The rest of us tolerate them though.