[pgviper]

Currently I am an electrical engineer and looking to break into the financial industry, specifially investment banking. I chose electrical engineering because it was a safe and interesting career path that played on my strengths. Although engineering has a consistant job market, I don't see it allowing me to reach my goals within the time frame that I want to do so and therefore it is time for a change. Finance has always interested me and my technical and innovative background can only help me from here on out.

Has anyone here broken into the financial industry through a non traditional route? Whether it be engineering, law, liberal arts, whatever... What was the experience like and what lessons did you learn?

Getting my MBA seems to be the most secure yet most expensive route. Ideally, I would like to land an analsyt position first (gaining a basic finance and accounting background through my own book work) and then having that firm pay for my MBA. In the meantime I can take the GMAT since those scores last for 5 years. Unforutunately, I see my best option as getting the MBA first and then using the contacts I make through there to get a job. Until I talk to more people, gather more information and hopefully gain some advice from people on here, I won't be able to make an educated decision.

FWIW, I don't mind working insane hours, I don't mind doing b!tch work and I don't mind taking shit. I strive for success in anything and everything I do so lets please keep the brainless comments to a minimum. Any type of success doesn't come without risk and hard work and I am fully aware of that fact of life.

Thanks in advance!

[KingOfJericho]

The two best ways to get into IB are to know someone or graduate from Wharton. I've been working in Finance for 11 years and those are the people who are always fast-tracked.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

The two best ways to get into IB are to know someone or graduate from Wharton. I've been working in Finance for 11 years and those are the people who are always fast-tracked.

I have a family member in back office (IT) investment banking. She will I'm sure do whatever she can to help me out. As far as preparing myself to make me a good candidate, do you have any other advice?

Also, feel free to PM if you want.

[kscarrol]

If purely interested in finance/IB, consider a one year Masters of Finance degree. They are gaining popularity and you won't take all the marketing, organizational behavior crap you get with the two year MBA. But as KingofJercho points out, you want a degree from a top school. Doesn't have to be Wharton (but that wouldn't hurt!) as there a number of excellent schools out there. After 15 years of IB I am now teaching finance our local university and we place a number of students with Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc every year...

[onatuesday]

And you're okay with working 100+ hour weeks?

As a finance major and friends with many investment bankers, I'm perplexed why anyone with an engineering degree would want to leave engineering to be an investment banker. Engineers can make just as much money as your average banker but with better work/life balance while also having known that they were really adding value to the world. Tech startups in Silicon Valley are paying engineers enormous amounts of money along with exceptional benefits to attract and retain engineers. My best friend has an electrical engineering degree and worked for Microsoft then became a banker and I think he regrets this decision every day when he's coming home at midnight and working Saturdays and Sundays, always on call, and feeling like he's not really working on anything that challenging.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

If purely interested in finance/IB, consider a one year Masters of Finance degree. They are gaining popularity and you won't take all the marketing, organizational behavior crap you get with the two year MBA. But as KingofJercho points out, you want a degree from a top school. Doesn't have to be Wharton (but that wouldn't hurt!) as there a number of excellent schools out there. After 15 years of IB I am now teaching finance our local university and we place a number of students with Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc every year...

The initial investment for a career change by getting a masters in finance makes this a very attractive option when compared to getting an MBA but with that there has to be some drawbacks to this wrote. Care to elaborate on what these drawbacks may be?

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by trinim3

And you're okay with working 100+ hour weeks?

As a finance major and friends with many investment bankers, I'm perplexed why anyone with an engineering degree would want to leave engineering to be an investment banker. Engineers can make just as much money as your average banker but with better work/life balance while also having known that they were really adding value to the world. Tech startups in Silicon Valley are paying engineers enormous amounts of money along with exceptional benefits to attract and retain engineers. My best friend has an electrical engineering degree and worked for Microsoft then became a banker and I think he regrets this decision every day when he's coming home at midnight and working Saturdays and Sundays, always on call, and feeling like he's not really working on anything that challenging.

I live one stop from wall street and me and my fiances families are engrained into Long Island. Leaving them is not an option. Engineering on Long Island is shrinking with the closing of NG and out sourcing of many responsibilities which leaves me with few options since by trade I am not a software engineer nor do I enjoy coding, I am an electrical engineer who enjoys lab work and design. Living at the doorstep of the financial capital in the world, it would be stupid to not pursue a career in finance. Being that I have a great contact, my personality suites what these positions look for and my technical/problem solving background, I find IB to be a promising career path.

First step is gaining information and thats what this thread is aimed at doing.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by pgviper

The initial investment for a career change by getting a masters in finance makes this a very attractive option when compared to getting an MBA but with that there has to be some drawbacks to this wrote. Care to elaborate on what these drawbacks may be?

I also think Master in Finance isn't a bad option but again I think you should consider something in the finance field that isn't necessarily being an investment banker. Quantitative finance is a very interesting area if you like math. I see quite a few engineers picking up MBAs and going into finance/strategy or mgmt roles as well.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by trinim3

I also think Master in Finance isn't a bad option but again I think you should consider something in the finance field that isn't necessarily being an investment banker. Quantitative finance is a very interesting area if you like math. I see quite a few engineers picking up MBAs and going into finance/strategy or mgmt roles as well.

Thanks for the advice! I'll definitely look into that. I was researching financial engineering but it seems like your options are limited and should really be worded as software development in finance.

Like I said, I enjoy calculations, I enjoy problem solving, I enjoy getting shit done! I don't want to be a cubicle programmer which is the direction i'm being pushed in by my current job.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by pgviper

I live one stop from wall street and me and my fiances families are engrained into Long Island. Leaving them is not an option. Engineering on Long Island is shrinking with the closing of NG and out sourcing of many responsibilities which leaves me with few options since by trade I am not a software engineer nor do I enjoy coding, I am an electrical engineer who enjoys lab work and design. Living at the doorstep of the financial capital in the world, it would be stupid to not pursue a career in finance. Being that I have a great contact, my personality suites what these positions look for and my technical/problem solving background, I find IB to be a promising career path.

First step is gaining information and thats what this thread is aimed at doing.

Your explanation makes sense. I know NY isn't really known for hardware tech companies, but maybe there's a few out there? Or possibly you can work as a sales engineer for one of the tech companies with offices in NY? Sales engineers make $300k+ a year if they're good. Also bio tech, I'd assume is in the area as well...not sure if EEs can do biotech but possibly?

I'm glad you're getting as much info as possible because banking is one of those things where you have to know exactly what you're getting yourself into. It's really not as glamorous as it appears.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Your explanation makes sense. I know NY isn't really known for hardware tech companies, but maybe there's a few out there? Or possibly you can work as a sales engineer for one of the tech companies with offices in NY? Sales engineers make $300k+ a year if they're good. Also bio tech, I'd assume is in the area as well...not sure if EEs can do biotech but possibly?

I'm glad you're getting as much info as possible because banking is one of those things where you have to know exactly what you're getting yourself into. It's really not as glamorous as it appears.

Something I never considered. I really appreciate the recommendation and I'll look into it.

[nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn]

So do you want to get into IB because it pays well? Have you graduated college yet?

[kscarrol]

trinim3 is correct. With the MS Finance you are limiting your appeal as an employee a bit, pigeon-holed into to one area of expertise. Now your EE degree does give you options to leverage that expertise into finance. An MBA degree is a broader area of study that is more likely to give you an opening into consulting/strategy type positions among others...

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

So do you want to get into IB because it pays well? Have you graduated college yet?

Yes + read above

Yes

Originally Posted by kscarrol

trinim3 is correct. With the MS Finance you are limiting your appeal as an employee a bit, pigeon-holed into to one area of expertise. Now your EE degree does give you options to leverage that expertise into finance. An MBA degree is a broader area of study that is more likely to give you an opening into consulting/strategy type positions among others...

I should have elaborated earlier but I have an MS in EE.

That's what it seems. For further advancement, the MBA is the way to go but it is also a larger investment. Lots to consider!

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Yes + read above

Yes



I should have elaborated earlier but I have an MS in EE.

That's what it seems. For further advancement, the MBA is the way to go but it is also a larger investment. Lots to consider!

If you do get a MBA, only get one from a top 10 school. I also would want to do an exec-MBA program so I'm still getting paid while spending $100k for 2 years.

[ASAP]

100+ hr weeks, extremely stressful, extremely difficult to enter, not everyone makes tons of money

otherwise good luck

[E90Alex]

You truly have to understand that the 100+ hour weeks is NOT an exaggeration in some groups.

When I interviewed with investment banks the guy on the phone asked why I would want to work 7 days a week and until midnight every day in his group.

Also, at certain banks/groups midnight is a good case scenario. Sometimes you will be working until 4am or only have time to go home, change, and come back to work.

Granted some weeks could be better where you only work 70 hrs...

Various boutiques might have better hours though. It really depends on their deal flow. People typically use investment banking for exit opportunities into private equity or hedgefunds.

[kscarrol]

Not sure the top ten requirement is etched in stone but definitely pick the best school you can. OP is lucky being in NYC as Columbia and NYU are excellent choices!

The top school will definitely help but again, not required. I teach at Tulane (not a top 10 school!) and we place undergrads and grads with bulge bracket and boutique investment banks every year so even non top ten schools can give you options.

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by E90Alex

People typically use investment banking for exit opportunities into private equity or hedgefunds.

+1 This!!

[nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Yes + read above

Yes

Ok, so I am going to be the bearer of bad news.

You will not get into an analyst program at any of the bulge brackets or highly reputable firm. They have their whole process and do not deviate from it unless you are the child of someone very powerful. They farm from specific (usually Ivy League) schools. It starts by juniors having a summer internship where upon successful completion they can apply to interview for the analyst program which begins almost immediately in the summer after graduation. It used to be that the analyst program lasted two years, and after that you go get an MBA. Now there is a move towards making the analysts full time employees.

Secondly, there is a massive divide between front office (investment bankers) and back office (IT). Unless it is a very small shop, who hardly ever hire people without at least some experience (i.e. internship), your family member cannot help you land a gig in an analyst program.

Let's say you do somehow end up in an analyst program. Your life will consist of having no life. You are property of the firm. You work a cubicle job for 100+ hour weeks at the equivalent rate of $10-$15/hr. You mentioned above about not wanting to be in a cubicle. You will live in a cubicle as an IB analyst.

So what is your route? Probably not on wall street. Maybe on the periphery, but not in the heart of it. Can you tell me what kind of analyst you want to be? Maybe going more towards the investment/wealth management direction could be better.

[E90Alex]

Originally Posted by nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Ok, so I am going to be the bearer of bad news.

You will not get into an analyst program at any of the bulge brackets or highly reputable firm. They have their whole process and do not deviate from it unless you are the child of someone very powerful. They farm from specific (usually Ivy League) schools. It starts by juniors having a summer internship where upon successful completion they can apply to interview for the analyst program which begins almost immediately in the summer after graduation. It used to be that the analyst program lasted two years, and after that you go get an MBA. Now there is a move towards making the analysts full time employees.

Secondly, there is a massive divide between front office (investment bankers) and back office (IT). Unless it is a very small shop, who hardly ever hire people without at least some experience (i.e. internship), your family member cannot help you land a gig in an analyst program.

Let's say you do somehow end up in an analyst program. Your life will consist of having no life. You are property of the firm. You work a cubicle job for 100+ hour weeks at the equivalent rate of $10-$15/hr. You mentioned above about not wanting to be in a cubicle. You will live in a cubicle as an IB analyst.

So what is your route? Probably not on wall street. Maybe on the periphery, but not in the heart of it. Can you tell me what kind of analyst you want to be? Maybe going more towards the investment/wealth management direction could be better.

Also, as mentioned above, when analysts do leave the banks to pursue their MBA programs, the firm does not pay for it.

The analysts either leave the bank to get their MBA or stay on with the firm and are promoted to the associate level.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Ok, so I am going to be the bearer of bad news.

You will not get into an analyst program at any of the bulge brackets or highly reputable firm. They have their whole process and do not deviate from it unless you are the child of someone very powerful. They farm from specific (usually Ivy League) schools.

I wouldn't go so far as this. I've seen a few engineers get a MBA and end up at top firms. However, they're basically starting off from a scratch and at a huge disadvantage to their peers who started off in banking right out of undergrad. They aren't going to be even mid-mgmt and really then to me there engineering degree and all that time working as an engineer is now a waste.

Now the title of this thread is "finance" which doesn't mean banking. Investment Banking is a very specific area of finance. If you have an MBA with an MS in engineering you should be able to get some stellar mid mgmt strategy/marketing/finance whatever roles at an actual firm making/selling things.