[Jason]

BIMMERPOST NEWS

There's a Movement at BMW to Develop Electric-Only Platform

57
COMMENTS

Tweet

BMW works council backs electric-only platform-report

June 26, 2020

BERLIN (Reuters) - BMW (BMWG.DE) should shift course and establish a technology platform just for electric cars, moving away from developing cars that can be fitted with either electric or combustion engines, the head of the influential [BMW] works council said. [The BMW Works Council is a body elected by the workforce.]

“Only with our own e-architecture can we fully exploit the advantages of an electric vehicle,” Manfred Schoch told Der Spiegel magazine.

Schoch said a dedicated electric platform is needed if the German luxury carmaker is not to be overtaken by competitors from California - like electric car company Tesla (TSLA.O) - or from China.

Spiegel said Schoch’s call comes after some BMW managers have pushed for a new electric strategy internally for some time.

Those managers hope that the company will now quickly shift to develop a pure e-platform, which would make cars lighter and give them a longer battery range and a bigger interior.

Asked about the report, a BMW spokesman said the company was currently “optimally positioned” and declined to comment on speculation about internal discussions.

Via Reuters

[mkoesel]

Well, glory be! How about that?

This is very encouraging news. Now hopefully they will ditch plans for small FWD EVs on the FAAR platform and start planning some small RWD and AWD EVs with big power that have at least some hope of being exciting.

Also, just in case its not clear, the topic is *not*:

There's a Movement at BMW to Only Develop Electric Platforms

In other words, there are no plans to abandon ICE vehicles. In fact, with the possibility for all future (post 2023-ish) BMW EVs to move to this new dedicated EV platform, the existing CLAR and FAAR vehicle architectures would be freed up to concentrate on what they were originally intended for - to underpin great ICE vehicles.

[Macphisto]

Hurry the F up! My current M2 is my last ICE car. I'm ready for the future.

[AUSf22]

The peeps at Tesla just had a tiny shudder ..

[stein_325i]

Agree that a BEV platform from the ground up is the way to go. It made no sense when they let go of the previous CEO for failing to catch up to Tesla and produce worthy EV's only to just follow the same plans he had for electric cars with the new CEO. They are already very behind Tesla and an all electric platform from the ground up will likely yield better range and a more efficient vehicle which they will need with the Supercharger network being one of Tesla's many advantages over the competition, but then again how long will it take them. The iX3 is taking forever to launch, the i4 is scheduled for 2022 (and that was before Covid) and who knows what updates/upgrades Tesla will make in that time?

https://jalopnik.com/bmws-new-ceo-is...1836597860/amp

[rjd598]

Originally Posted by AUSf22

The peeps at Tesla just had a tiny shudder ..

I don’t think Tesla cares

[chrisny]

I thought that was the whole point of the i cars in the first place. But then the started planing/making them with the same bodies as the ICE cars. Yet we have the i4 concept looking like the original i strategy and the iX3 the mix.... 🤷🏻

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

A little late to the game, no?

Originally Posted by mkoesel

In other words, there are no plans to abandon ICE vehicles. In fact, with the possibility for all future (post 2023-ish) BMW EVs to move to this new dedicated EV platform, the existing CLAR and FAAR vehicle architectures would be freed up to concentrate on what they were originally intended for - to underpin great ICE vehicles.

It's the final era of the ICE. It's on its deathbed.

[agentrnge]

There is still no way to mask the mass of a 4900 lb electric sedan. I know everything is bloated and getting bloatier anyway as time moves on, but an extra 1/2 ton in mass over the same size car as an ICE/hybrid is silly. "but its down low so it doesnt count" as if it helps handling to have a 1000 lbs of battery on the floor. I am not super anti-electric or anything. Looking forward to one I like. Didnt care for the model S. plenty fast, but I hated driving it except in straight line launches.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

I'm not taking the position that BMW shouldn't develop an all-electric platform. I just think people need to realize that this initiative WILL pull resources away from everything else the brand produces, and is the antithesis of the "save the manuals" and "lighter and more minimal" crowd.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by The Automotive Enthusiast

It's the final era of the ICE. It's on its deathbed.

We aren't going to get into a debate about the timeline here. EVs are obviously the future, but the transition will happen over many years. Combustion engine vehicles are on nearly every single traditional automaker's roadmap until through the end of this decade, so it is far too soon to be killing off ICE vehicle architectures at this time.

[cstavaru]

The problem is, they should have begun the research 10 years ago, or at least 5 years ago. Now their only chance is to buy a platform, starting research now is probably useless.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

The problem is, they should have begun the research 10 years ago, or at least 5 years ago. Now their only chance is to buy a platform, starting research now is probably useless.

What a silly comment.

[TheBingoBalls]

This was bound to eventually happen, any platform BMW currently has developed was done to best accommodate both electric and ICE (4er, i4). If electric is the future for BMW, then it only makes sense for them to develop a platform that would maximize the potential of the electric vehicle. This is likely years out from being used but it's promising news.

[RinconHeat]

Perhaps I'm feeling pessimistic about the brand but maybe the clean slate an EV offers will at least pause this hurtling course BMW is on toward becoming Toyota. As the best BMW ICE offerings rise from the pig stye- heavy, numb, rounded and swine-faced, maybe they could try to make a new drivers car in EV form. Unfortunately, I honestly can't see this with Dukec and Hooydonk at the helm. I fear the current leadership is more interested in being the best "selling" brand rather than just the "best." Alas, it seems we are already beginning to speak of how great BMW was when they engineered cars for "drivers" and not status seekers looking for big grille gimmicks and a roundel.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by agentrnge

There is still no way to mask the mass of a 4900 lb electric sedan. I know everything is bloated and getting bloatier anyway as time moves on, but an extra 1/2 ton in mass over the same size car as an ICE/hybrid is silly. "but its down low so it doesnt count" as if it helps handling to have a 1000 lbs of battery on the floor. I am not super anti-electric or anything. Looking forward to one I like. Didnt care for the model S. plenty fast, but I hated driving it except in straight line launches.

Well, the VW IDR race car is neither light or high HP. It is 100% electric though, and set a time of 6:05 on the Nürburgring, broke the Pikes Peak overall record, as well as several other records.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_I.D._R

The Porsche Taycan S Turbo is also 100% electric, and it can beat a M5 around a road course, and runs mid 10's at over 130mph. All with an efficiency rating of over 80MPGe. Can only imagine how much better it is going to get. And as I said, it will always be fun to have gas cars around, so you can hear them screaming as they struggle to keep pace with you in your serenely quiet EV.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Macphisto

Hurry the F up! My current M2 is my last ICE car. I'm ready for the future.

My M2 is also my last gas⛽️ car

The future is now

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

I'm not taking the position that BMW shouldn't develop an all-electric platform. I just think people need to realize that this initiative WILL pull resources away from everything else the brand produces, and is the antithesis of the "save the manuals" and "lighter and more minimal" crowd.

All of that was already happening anyway.

This possible new direction takes all of the funds there were going to burn through developing electric vehicles either way, and gives them a much better shot at actually coming up with competitive products. It's a big win.

Meanwhile, they'll continue to churn out compelling ICE vehicles, including some with manual transmissions, as long as the market is there. They will still be around for quite awhile longer.

[BMWGirlFL]

February 4, 2020:
https://europe.autonews.com/automake...-only-platform

BMW re-affirms position against electric-only platform
BMW's new management team will not change course and follow Mercedes-Benz and Audi by developing a dedicated electric vehicle architecture to better compete against EV leader Tesla.
CEO Oliver Zipse believes BMW's "integrated" platform, which can underpin EVs as well as cars with combustion engines, could be a unique selling point for customers. Therefore, Zipse plans to stick with a conservative investment strategy for EVs that he has carried over from his predecessor, Harald Krueger.
European automakers will need to invest heavily to halve fleet emissions to 59 grams per kilometer by 2030 from a target of 95g/km that takes full effect next year. A decade from now, BMW expects every second car it sells in Europe will either be a plug-in hybrid or a battery-electric vehicle to meet targets.
"In our view, market forecasts are too uncertain to warrant inflexible, electro-only platforms," BMW executive Udo Haenle told Automotive News Europe. "What we don't want is for our plants to operate below capacity," Haenle said. The executive last month transitioned from his job as senior vice president of production strategy to a new role in engineering.
Financially, this approach makes sense because in the early years of the market's transition to electrified vehicles factories can quickly adapt to changing demand for combustion-driven and battery-powered vehicles. "Building a new plant would cost roughly 1 billion euros, whereas ramping up existing facilities to produce battery-electric vehicles will amount to a three-digit-million-euro investment, mainly for body shop and assembly," Haenle said.
BMW will retain its current strategy of one architecture for front-wheel-drive and one for rear-wheel-drive cars. This common distinction within the combustion engine world is not found on EV-only platforms. Critics says that BMW's strategy puts a premium on finances over innovation and could lead to uncompetitive products. Haenle argued that won't be the case at BMW. "We are not going to compromise on anything that will impact the customer," he said.
Bumpy beginning
BMW already experimented unsuccessfully with a purpose-built electric vehicle when the i3 arrived in 2013. The automaker says it will not carry over the i3's costly construction and unique body-on-frame layout to subsequent EVs.
Last November Zipse extolled the virtues of the group's cautious approach, billing it even as a competitive differentiator. "We don't believe that is at all necessary [to have a specialized platform] to achieve the desired product characteristics," said BMW's CEO, who took over in last August. "Instead you can accomplish these very well with an intelligent platform that fulfills all the requirements."
Audi parent Volkswagen Group takes a different view. Engineers can take full advantage of their freedom to develop traits unique to Audi's dedicated PPE EV architecture, including its 800-volt system that lowers weight, saves space and enables an ultra-fast recharging speed. Meanwhile Mercedes is developing its EVA2 platform that will underpin the upcoming EQS sedan.
Using BMW's logic, however, its rivals shouldn't have bothered with architectures specifically for EVs, especially because Zipse believes its integrated platform does not come with trade-offs such as limited electric range. "It's not the case that you have to make compromises if you plan long in advance. I believe the fact that we don't need a dedicated (EV) platform could be a unique selling point," he said.
BMW's stance on EV-only architectures may be short lived, however, because the European Union aims to break its dependence on imported fossil fuels that contribute to climate change by going fully carbon neutral by 2050. To facilitate this, new EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said in December she plans to propose more punitive 2030 fleet emission targets.

Emphasis added. Too soon to say when.

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

February 4, 2020:
https://europe.autonews.com/automake...-only-platform

Emphasis added. Too soon to say when.

The top post is quoting the workers council leader, this is from management. I guess the people who merely work there are getting nervous that the current management strategy won't work mid/long term.

In any case, developing an all-BEV platform now would mean products in 4-5 years earliest I'd guess, unless they manage to update the I3 platform (but looking at how they have divested from carbon manufacturing AFAIK, that doesn't sound likely either).

[BMWGirlFL]

Originally Posted by mbanck

The top post is quoting the workers council leader, this is from management.

Good catch! Would like to read Der Spiegel article with quote in top post but can't find one.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Well, the VW IDR race car is neither light or high HP. It is 100% electric though, and set a time of 6:05 on the Nürburgring, broke the Pikes Peak overall record, as well as several other records.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_I.D._R

The Porsche Taycan S Turbo is also 100% electric, and it can beat a M5 around a road course, and runs mid 10's at over 130mph. All with an efficiency rating of over 80MPGe. Can only imagine how much better it is going to get. And as I said, it will always be fun to have gas cars around, so you can hear them screaming as they struggle to keep pace with you in your serenely quiet EV.

I daily drive a Model 3 Performance but I'll be the first to tell you that the performance of EVs, at least with Tesla, is far from exciting in any way. Of course you're missing the sound of an engine but everybody already knows that. The more important thing is the falling power curve of the electric motor + single speed transmission, the faster you go, the weaker the acceleration is. This is nice because I feel zero incentive to drive much higher than the speed limit but it's also very boring. Everyone brags about EV torque "From" 0 RPM but they don't mention that it really delivers maximum acceleration G forces "At" 0 RPM and it drops down very quickly above 40 MPH.

Also, Teslas accelerate very quickly when fully charged but the performance falls off a cliff as the battery charge level drops down. I leave my house every morning at 90% charge and if I floor it, the car throws me hard back into my seat and makes me laugh every time. I get to work at about 80% charge and it's a hair slower than it was when I left home. By the time I return home after work, I'm down to about 70% and it's much slower than it was in the morning. By the time you get down around 50% charge, it feels downright slow compared to what you've become used to when the car is fully charged. That truly sucks and it's why I'd never consider a car like this for track use or purposely take it out in the canyons for a fun drive. Not all EVs are like this, it's a choice Tesla has made to keep the overal range high and achieve other goals but it keeps my car firmly in the "excellent daily commuter" camp for me.

I have not driven a Taycan yet but my friends who have tell me that the Porsche approach is not like Tesla at all, hopefully BMW would follow in Porsche's footsteps and prioritize acceleration potential when the car is already at higher speeds and also keep maximum acceleration available for longer as the battery charge level drops.