[chicagoguy0822]

Hi everyone,

I know there are comments about this topic in other threads in this forum, but I wanted to create a dedicated thread.

Next year, I will be ordering an M4 convertible. My last two BMWs have had the Black Sapphire Metallic Paint, which I love, but am looking for something different. I'm really digging the Frozen Grey.

Let me preface this by saying this car will be a daily driver. I drive about 12,000-14,000 miles a year and live in Chicago where the roads get salted in the winter. In addition, because of the extreme cold weather, I can't pull out the hose and wash the car any time I want.

I have a series of questions... answer what you can!

- For those of you that have a car with a Frozen paint, how has maintenance gone? Do you freak out every time you see a rock chip or bird droppings? Or are there some posters that make a bigger deal out of it than it is? I like my cars to be low maintenance.

- Is it pretty much required to put a wrap on it specific to matte paint (Xpel Stealth)? The frozen paint will already add about $3,500 in cost. Xpel stealth could add another $8K or so. If you have the wrap, is it noticeable?

- For those of you that are in cold weather climates, how do you wash the car in winter? I am assuming even a touchless automatic car wash is a big "no" for frozen paint, so are you going to one of those self-service places and just blasting it with the hose to get the salt off?

The below video makes it seem as though caring for it is not that big of a deal as long as you understand that you shouldn't wax or polish it, but I wonder if the video is dated (it's 5 years old).

What are your overall thoughts?

Thanks!

[JCZ5]

First off, I would preface by saying you should buy what you want, as long as it makes you happy.

I will follow up and say if I were in your shoes, I would no way get a frozen paint job as a daily driver. Special attention must be paid for car washes - only hand washing. Which is not an issue, but you have to pay attention to what chemicals you put on as some may cause the paint to look polished or glossy.

Regarding rock chips or damage to paint, a simple touch up paint will not do (unless you want something sticking up like a sore thumb). It will require additional prep that involves potentially sanding and respraying. And even if you did a respray on certain parts, it may still be noticeable due to how your other panels have worn over the months.

Sure, you can put an Xpel wrap on it, but in Chicago winter driving, you will have damage to the film. Remember, Xpel is not an invincibility cloak. It helps mitigate certain dings, but once punctured, it allows other projectiles and grim to build up in those areas.

In summary, if you want it pristine and have the frozen look hold up, daily driving for 12-14K miles is not going to do that without some sort of worry.

[chicagoguy0822]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

First off, I would preface by saying you should buy what you want, as long as it makes you happy.

...

In summary, if you want it pristine and have the frozen look hold up, daily driving for 12-14K miles is not going to do that without some sort of worry.

Thank you for your response... makes sense.

[h_bakken]

I just got my first Frozen, 2016 GTS Frozen dark grey metallic.

First let me say I absolutely love the paint. Lusted after it for years.

I was very nervous about cleaning and even started a thread asking questions. Caveat, previous owner had XPEL Stealth over hood, front bumper, front quarters, A pillars, mirror housing, anything facing the bug blast, also XPEL gloss over all CF (front splitter carbon, roof, wing). He did not do the runners (too bad) but they were already dinged on the bottom from all the rocks flung up by Sport Cup 2 maybe that's why?

Also live in TX so no winter conditions (although Iowa native so in KNOW about winter, salt etc).

Anyhow my observations (just detailed the car myself for the first time)

I watched that same video as well!

soaked car with regular garden hose and then hosed it off again after 15 minutes to remove large chunks.

Nasty chunky bug residue (big grasshoppers etc) was very easy to remove after 3+ weeks, but bugs were on the XPEL covered parts mostly.

I used BMW's matte finish "shampoo" and chenille microfiber mitt, with MF rags for the grubbier parts underneath (consumable).

Then rinsed forever, then 2-stage dry with chamois type cloth for most of the water then larger drying towel to remove water smears.

I also make sure to hand dry areas of water collection in the doors, hood and trunk (outside the inner seals)

Then quick drive to blow water out of crevices (we have really hard water here you can see where every drop lands and dries).

My final detail is clean MF rag and and warm water with a couple caps of white vinegar to remove the few water spots and streaks from the drive, wipe gently then use the now damp final dry towel to finish, the hard water marks just wipe away.

Paint was far easier to clean than I expected. Seemed easier than normal gloss clear coat IMO. Even the non PPF coated sections although no real bug residue on these. I think matte paint hides some of the water smear much better than gloss clear coat.

XPEL may be worth the price of admission but will defer to those with more experience. Stealth does subtly change the finish to a bit more of a "satin" but very close to the original

Frozen texture, you can see the difference side by side on my car but if you did the whole car would be very tough to tell IMO.

And your wheel liners will get destroyed for sure if you DD in the winter. Mine are gross (car had only 5K miles but obviously the previous owner must have driven in the rain at least once) I have learned to ignore that part of the car.

I would not use a car wash ever, even touchless, but in winter mid west you really want some sort of underbody flush. Problem is most automatic washes use waxes!

Any paint will eventually be damaged even with PPF. Frozen can't be buffed to repair, that's the difference.

And for sure no standard wax, will make it shiny. Even avoid soap with wax!



Hope this helps

[solstice]

I’m planning to get frozen deep grey if available in the US at the AWD launch.
We’ll daily the car 12k+ year around in Seattle (mild winters).

...unless the majority here that owned a frozen color say they would never get it again. JCZ5, are you advising based on experience or from published facts? I’m not arguing your facts, I believe they are true but I’m not sure if the troubles of actual ownership is of enough magnitude to avoid it?

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by solstice

I'm planning to get frozen deep grey if available in the US at the AWD launch.
We'll daily the car 12k+ year around in Seattle (mild winters).

...unless the majority here that owned a frozen color say they would never get it again. JCZ5, are you advising based on experience or from published facts? I'm not arguing your facts, I believe they are true but I'm not sure if the troubles of actual ownership is of enough magnitude to avoid it?

Fair points, but as I had stated in my response, I personally would not own it due to the high attention it requires. As the previous poster to you mentioned, you can certainly take care of it, detail it, etc. but for me, it's not worth the price of admission. This goes back to buy what you like...

I treat my cars as appliances, they serve a purpose and although I take care of them, I will not detail it every weekend with multiple products, etc

[solstice]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

Fair points, but as I had stated in my response, I personally would not own it due to the high attention it requires. As the previous poster to you mentioned, you can certainly take care of it, detail it, etc. but for me, it's not worth the price of admission. This goes back to buy what you like...

I treat my cars as appliances, they serve a purpose and although I take care of them, I will not detail it every weekend with multiple products, etc

Thanks, though seeing the last pictures of it I’m getting it independent of what anyone say or have experienced. If needed I’ll have the car re-sprayed when it gets too bad...

[h_bakken]

I can add a bit more info-

I think the original fears of having to get bird s**t and other messy stuff off right away are overstated based on my limited experience and what I have heard from others. Road tar might be another issue.

I don't wash/detail my cars that often but I have heard from other Frozen owners that they also wash infrequently and their paint is fine.

It seems as if the paint is as durable as any other surface, but you are limited to hand washing (a labor of love for sure) and you need to pick your products.

I do have a bit of a safety net with the PPF, which I will have professionally removed if it gets too messed up.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by h_bakken

I can add a bit more info-

I think the original fears of having to get bird s**t and other messy stuff off right away are overstated based on my limited experience and what I have heard from others. Road tar might be another issue.

I don't wash/detail my cars that often but I have heard from other Frozen owners that they also wash infrequently and their paint is fine.

It seems as if the paint is as durable as any other surface, but you are limited to hand washing (a labor of love for sure) and you need to pick your products.

I do have a bit of a safety net with the PPF, which I will have professionally removed if it gets too messed up.

Infrequent washing, no wax or polish...already sounds like me

[LSM]

Chips/scuffs/scratches are a nightmare on frozen paint and BMW paint is notoriously thin. Xpel Stealth satin or matte finish PPF is what I would go with in lieu of frozen factory paint. Same look none of the issues and troubles with the frozen paint

Save yourself the trouble of the "frozen" paints

[bm323]

I used Swissvax's wax and shampoo for 7 years https://www.swissvax.us/merchant.mvc...de=MATTE-PAINT

Some use Dr Beasley's https://www.drbeasleys.com/shop/exte...-car-care.html

I found it easier to maintain ceramic coated black sapphire metallic compared to frozen grey ... I didn't have any protective coating on my frozen grey other than Swissvax's wax. The frozen grey attracts more attention

[BrettKA7]

Matte paint isn't as simple as just making clear coat less shiny. Matte paint is made possible by light refraction at a microscopic level. The texture of the clear coat is what determines matte vs. glossy, so the same way a gloss paint job will become swirled with scratches, a matte paint job will slowly turn more satin and eventually semigloss as the texture wears smoother and smoother.

This is a nightmare to repaint if/when needed. It takes a lot more blending and depending on how neglected the paint was, it can be impossible to blend perfectly.

Some cars look great matte, but I'm not interested in owning one. Especially as a daily driver. That's what a matte wrap is for!

[zenohua]

Frozen Brilliant White owner, just do proper wash regularly. Do not polish, it is actually easier to maintain than any other paint. Be careful you don't want to scratch the paint otherwise it has to be fully repainted.

[dmk08]

Con. It doesnt look good.

[Penguino]

I'd honestly get it Brooklyn Grey ir Black and do a Matte Grey wrap for $2,500. The stress of the matte paint and the delicacy of it would drive me insane since I'm extremely anal with my cars.

[A/J]

Just had a Mercedes oem matte paint called magno selenite grey.

Find a body shop near you that can repair it - that was the only prob for me was hard to find one even in london, also expect to pay 30 - 50% more for repairs (neighbouring panels wont need respray if good body shop)

But the paint is very hard wearing doesnt scratch or chip as easily as normal paint, and requires washing less ( def not true about cleaning dirt/ bird mess off imediately) just hand wash with dr beasley only ( i took the bottle to my local guys)

The attention and compliments def make this colour worth it - i would get again, just factor in repair cost

[Habber]

After reading some of these answers, I feel like white or silver seems to be the easiest for a daily driver for a DD that will be subjected to winter.

[-EndOfAnEra-]

Originally Posted by Habber

After reading some of these answers, I feel like white or silver seems to be the easiest for a daily driver for a DD that will be subjected to winter.

OP, not to derail your thread but the G80 and G82/83 have a new fundamental problem for those who'd see it as a four season car in the Midwest. The fronts and rear wheels are not the same size. I'm not sure if anyone had any experience squaring up a wheel/tire combo like this but that is definitely an item to be aware of as running staggered tire and wheel sizes in the winter will increase maintenance costs by an order of magnitude.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by -EndOfAnEra-

OP, not to derail your thread but the G80 and G82/83 have a new fundamental problem for those who'd see it as a four season car in the Midwest. The fronts and rear wheels are not the same size. I'm not sure if anyone had any experience squaring up a wheel/tire combo like this but that is definitely an item to be aware of as running staggered tire and wheel sizes in the winter will increase maintenance costs by an order of magnitude.

You can just buy square setups for the winter, instead of keeping it as staggered in the winter.

In fact, BMW themselves offer a winter tire package that does just that. Now it will still cost more than if you were replacing a square stock setup. But at least by having squared, you can have more life out of your winter tires

[chicagoguy0822]

Originally Posted by -EndOfAnEra-

OP, not to derail your thread but the G80 and G82/83 have a new fundamental problem for those who'd see it as a four season car in the Midwest. The fronts and rear wheels are not the same size. I'm not sure if anyone had any experience squaring up a wheel/tire combo like this but that is definitely an item to be aware of as running staggered tire and wheel sizes in the winter will increase maintenance costs by an order of magnitude.

Interesting point. Why would the maintenance costs go up?

[topspd]

Originally Posted by pgreen822

<snip>

I have a series of questions... answer what you can!

I have a 2016 F10 M5 in frozen grey and drive year round in Toronto. We get our fair share of winter weather and the city uses salt on the roads.

Originally Posted by pgreen822

- For those of you that have a car with a Frozen paint, how has maintenance gone? Do you freak out every time you see a rock chip or bird droppings? Or are there some posters that make a bigger deal out of it than it is? I like my cars to be low maintenance.

It's mostly low maintenance. I freaked out in the beginning over bird droppings, but eventually transitioned into just hosing them off a day or two after I notice them. They generally don't stick, and for the ones that do, there's a special cleaner from BMW. I don't do a lot of highway driving or driving in gravel areas so I don't have much (any?) in the way of chips. The paint seems more resilient than regular gloss for some reason.

<Question snipped as I can't comment on wraps - never got one, just bare paint>

Originally Posted by pgreen822

- For those of you that are in cold weather climates, how do you wash the car in winter? I am assuming even a touchless automatic car wash is a big "no" for frozen paint, so are you going to one of those self-service places and just blasting it with the hose to get the salt off?

I don't have a lot of time so I rarely wash it at home. The rest of the time, I go to touchless car washes (Esso) in all seasons. You drive in and the robot arm moves around the car spraying on soap foam, spraying it off, then blow dry and drive out - zero contact. I always get the mid-level wash that doesn't have the wax foam cycle.

In the winter, the salt is really noticeable when they use the liquid spray on the roads before an impending deep freeze. I've left it that way for weeks between washes with no ill effects.

The frozen grey looks pretty good, even when it's really dirty, but looks even better after a fresh wash. I find the down side of frozen paint is that you lose the 'connection' to the lines of the car that you get from waxing, that it's worrisome trying to clean off road gunk that sticks to the lower door, and you can't do anything about tiny scratches (from my wife's nails/rings in the door handle cutouts).

<snip>

Originally Posted by pgreen822

What are your overall thoughts?

Having lived with it for almost 4 years, I've enjoyed it, but I probably wouldn't get it again.

[chicagoguy0822]

Originally Posted by topspd

I have a 2016 F10 M5 in frozen grey and drive year round in Toronto. We get our fair share of winter weather and the city uses salt on the roads.



It's mostly low maintenance. I freaked out in the beginning over bird droppings, but eventually transitioned into just hosing them off a day or two after I notice them. They generally don't stick, and for the ones that do, there's a special cleaner from BMW. I don't do a lot of highway driving or driving in gravel areas so I don't have much (any?) in the way of chips. The paint seems more resilient than regular gloss for some reason.

<Question snipped as I can't comment on wraps - never got one, just bare paint>



I don't have a lot of time so I rarely wash it at home. The rest of the time, I go to touchless car washes (Esso) in all seasons. You drive in and the robot arm moves around the car spraying on soap foam, spraying it off, then blow dry and drive out - zero contact. I always get the mid-level wash that doesn't have the wax foam cycle.

In the winter, the salt is really noticeable when they use the liquid spray on the roads before an impending deep freeze. I've left it that way for weeks between washes with no ill effects.

The frozen grey looks pretty good, even when it's really dirty, but looks even better after a fresh wash. I find the down side of frozen paint is that you lose the 'connection' to the lines of the car that you get from waxing, that it's worrisome trying to clean off road gunk that sticks to the lower door, and you can't do anything about tiny scratches (from my wife's nails/rings in the door handle cutouts).

<snip>



Having lived with it for almost 4 years, I've enjoyed it, but I probably wouldn't get it again.

Great feedback for me (and everyone else). Why wouldn't you do it again? Is it because of the care required or was it a "novelty" for you that has worn off? Thanks!