[sygazelle]

I'm going to give this a try and hopefully if any of you respond it will be heartfelt personal thoughts and not spiral into a political or religious discussion. I know how I feel and I'd like to hear from others without the usual rhetoric that goes with this this topic from all sides.

So, let's see if we can have a conversation on this important topic without this thread getting deleted.

The situation: Reed Hickson just died this week from COVID. He leaves behind family and friends, including 12 children and a wife. He caught COVID in August and he died on Monday. Not a surprise, the family has set up a Go Fund Me page. According to the articles I have read, the family has not answered the question whether or not Reed Hickson was vaccinated.

My thoughts first: My heart goes out to the family. How impossible it must feel right now to realize that the the 49 year old father of 12 children is gone.

My immediate question to myself was: Did he get vaccinated? The articles say the family refuses to answer that question.

For me, the choice to get vaccinated, which I did at my first opportunity back in January and February (Dose 1 and 2), was an easy one. I did not feel forced to do it. I did it for my own health, the safety of my friends and family. I did not worry that the vaccine was risky. I figured that the number of vaccinations that had been given before me and the data on the reactions to the doses was worth whatever risk there was for me. I'm not a scientist, so I wasn't going to wait and do my own elaborate research. I just decided to go for it and accept the risk factor for myself, my wife, my kids, and my grand kids, and our close bubble of friends.

We all do risky things at one level or another every day: Smoke, drink, drive too fast, take drugs, eat unhealthy food, have unsafe sex, or ??. My choice was to get vaccinated because it was a risk worth taking for me and the consequences of not getting vaccinated were too extreme for me.

Do any of you care to share your choice and why you made it?

If we keep responses respectful and keep religion and politics out of it, I'm hoping we have some thought-provoking responses that make us better understand the various points of view on this topic.

[Reborn_]

The potential benefits outweighed the potential risks.

[XutvJet]

The chances of dying from COVID at my age (47) and given my health are miniscule. I got COVID in March and my symptoms were super mild just like everyone else I know, and there are many, that got it. I recently got vaccinated ONLY because I was essentially coerced into it by my work if I ever wanted to work in the office. This is extremely frustrating as having recovered from COVID means you're extremely unlikely to get COVID again in the next 1+ years and if you do, the symptoms are likely going to be be very mild. So much for following the science. Natural immunity must be considered.

If I was of poor health or advanced age, then I say get the vaccine.

With all that said, it should be a choice. Period.

The fact is we're ALL going to get COVID at some point. You can't boost your way out of it. The vaccines aren't remotely as effective against the Delta varient and efficacy wanes substantially over time.

Life is full of risk.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The chances of dying from COVID at my age (47) and given my health are miniscule. I got COVID in March and my symptoms were super mild just like everyone else I know, and there are many, that got it. I recently got vaccinated ONLY because I was essentially coerced into it by my work if I ever wanted to work in the office. This is extremely frustrating as having recovered from COVID means you're extremely unlikely to get COVID again in the next 1+ years and if you do, the symptoms are likely going to be be very mild. So much for following the science. Natural immunity must be considered.

If I was of poor health or advanced age, then I say get the vaccine.

With all that said, it should be a choice. Period.

The fact is we're ALL going to get COVID at some point. You get boost your way out of it. The vaccines aren't remotely as effective against the Delta varient and efficacy wanes substantially over time.

Life is full of risk.

Do you need a vaccine if you're in poor mental health.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

I'm going to give this a try and hopefully if any of you respond it will be heartfelt personal thoughts and not spiral into a political or religious discussion. I know how I feel and I'd like to hear from others without the usual rhetoric that goes with this this topic from all sides.

So, let's see if we can have a conversation on this important topic without this thread getting deleted.

The situation: Reed Hickson just died this week from COVID. He leaves behind family and friends, including 12 children and a wife. He caught COVID in August and he died on Monday. Not a surprise, the family has set up a Go Fund Me page. According to the articles I have read, the family has not answered the question whether or not Reed Hickson was vaccinated.

My thoughts first: My heart goes out to the family. How impossible it must feel right now to realize that the the 49 year old father of 12 children is gone.

My immediate question to myself was: Did he get vaccinated? The articles say the family refuses to answer that question.

For me, the choice to get vaccinated, which I did at my first opportunity back in January and February (Dose 1 and 2), was an easy one. I did not feel forced to do it. I did it for my own health, the safety of my friends and family. I did not worry that the vaccine was risky. I figured that the number of vaccinations that had been given before me and the data on the reactions to the doses was worth whatever risk there was for me. I'm not a scientist, so I wasn't going to wait and do my own elaborate research. I just decided to go for it and accept the risk factor for myself, my wife, my kids, and my grand kids, and our close bubble of friends.

We all do risky things at one level or another every day: Smoke, drink, drive too fast, take drugs, eat unhealthy food, have unsafe sex, or ??. My choice was to get vaccinated because it was a risk worth taking for me and the consequences of not getting vaccinated were too extreme for me.

Do any of you care to share your choice and why you made it?

If we keep responses respectful and keep religion and politics out of it, I'm hoping we have some thought-provoking responses that make us better understand the various points of view on this topic.

As I shared on the other Covid threads, I'm pissed because my wife needed a bed in an emergency room three weeks ago, couldn't get one because of the unvaccinated Covid people. Dumbasses.

Ask me how I really feel.

[jsf721]

I got vaccinated because I felt that as an essential worker and bread winner I owed it to my profession and family to do my best to stay healthy and alive.

[Littlebear]

So far, we are getting close to 700,000 deaths in the US from covid.
So far, we have how many in the US who died from the vaccine?

Four folks in my building died, and six on my block. One of the owners of my supermarket died.

This is why I got vaccinated. It wasn't a hard lift.

[Maitre_Absolut]

If you refuse the vaccine, you should not be eligible for treatment if you get it. Simple as that. But we all now when shit hits the fan then the science is real lol

[///d]

My deployment room mate got COVID and ended up in ICU. He was vaccinated.

Another close friend of mine got COVID and he said it was no worse than a bad cold. He was not vaccinated.

As with everything, each person is going to have a different experience.

Now, I'm not against the vaccine and I got it back in June, but I am against it being mandated. I don't agree with how we are making life miserable for those who are not vaccinated. I don't agree with the ideas I keep hearing be discussed like refusing medical care for those who are not vaccinated.

The reality of this is COVID is not going away. At what point do we accept that? At what point do people stop living in fear? When everyone is vaccinated? Just like the flu, the next "COVID season" is going to see spikes in cases because of new strains the vaccine isn't as effective against.

This blame game is ridiculous. It's just like the meme floating around how in a year the people with 4 shots will be blaming cases on the people with 3 shots. COVID has really brought the worst out of people on all sides.

[zx10guy]

The unfortunate situation is people are selfish and won't do the right thing for the betterment of others. Case in point. How many times have parents sent their kids to school knowing they are sick? How many times have people gone into work knowing they are sick but still do it even though they risk getting other coworkers sick? It's because of these behaviors that I see why mandates are being put into place.

I'm for mandates but only done in a smart way. The discussion about natural immunity is one thing that is not being captured in these mandates. Nor are specific medical reasons. I dated a lady who didn't get vaccinated by choice. She had severe reactions to past vaccines. She wants to get vaccinated but under advice from her doctor was told the risks for her are not worth it until more data is collected that can apply to her situation. I understand that and respect that. This is the problem when you have people making decisions under knee jerk reactions and having specific agendas without focusing purely on the medical aspects.

For me, I did get the Pfizer vaccine. This is coming from someone who has never had a Flu vaccine. I got it because if this is how we get back to normal faster, I'm all for it. As I've said before in other threads, the risks these vaccines pose are a cake walk compared to the crap I've had put into my body through chemotherapy. Want to see what real risks are? Take a look at all the side effects and risks from doing FOLFOX6 therapy. Granted my views on risks and my risk tolerance are all screwed up due to having faced my own mortality multiple times.

[shimmy23]

I think one of the more frustrating things I still hear from people who are anti vax is "you can still get covid even if you have the vaccine so why get it?" straight ignorance when I hear that and I just SMH. At this point I don't even discuss it with people I know aren't vaccinated (which is a very small percentage).

[MsGoGoMoto]

Very young age to die. Sorry to hear this.. condolences to the family.

As far as shots. Just a no brainer.
Just like shot records were required for attending public school and joining the military, I simply got my shots, went to school, served in the Army (who gave me another set of shots/boosters at basic anyway) and moved on with life as normal.
I watched the trailer and almost got hooked on season one of the National Vaccine Shit Show, but came to my senses, spoke to DOC, got the shots with no side effects. Ducked away from getting dragged into a countrywide shit show battle over a bug, a mask, and a few shots.

Lots more to important stuff to focus energy on.

Like not getting sick and being extra careful not to do stupid careless physical activities that land me in the hospital … waiting to be treated because it's overfilled with sick people.
Y'all…
Be nice to everyone and treat them fairly.
Respect other's life choices..
Help instead of hurting
Don't call people names because of their vaccination and mask preferences. (Yes, I know about the spread and is seriousness, blah blah.. please)
If you can't say something nice when someone is being polite to you, shut the feck up.. Simon says shut the feck up and just move on.



Laters.

[2000cs]

Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut

If you refuse the vaccine, you should not be eligible for treatment if you get it. Simple as that. But we all now when shit hits the fan then the science is real lol

Ok, if that’s your stance, how do you feel about treatment for the following:
Smokers (cancer, emphysema, COPD, etc)
Obese (Diabetes)
Snowboarders and skateboarders (fractures)
Swimmers (near-drowning, shark bites)
Drivers (auto accidents, with and without seatbelts).

We’ll have to change the Hippocratic Oath and have all docs re-swear I suppose.

I’m vaccinated but I understand why many chose not to so far, including immunity from prior COVID, and real concerns about the vax and it being forced on them (this is part of a long mistrust of government issue for poor people especially African American inner city poor).

I also know that there are layers to the hospital capacity issue. One is we have had the pandemic in planning scenarios for decades and now in real life for 20 months. Why haven’t hospitals created surge capacity? Another, staff losses and inability/unwillingness to hire, especially nursing staff (including resignations of those who aren’t vaxed)? Perhaps there are also doc staffing issues, and other hospital staff. And then there are the treatments that seem to be very effective (monoclonal antibody is one) if given early, and reduce or eliminate hospital stay but have been politicized and now rationed, along with several claims about ivermectin and others. I’m not pretending to be expert on any of that, but mentioning some of the more real issues that complicate the vax decision for many and consequences on the health system.

[6oclockshadow]

As of yesterday, there are 617 people in Massachusetts hospitals with covid. 212 of them are fully vaccinated. Over 1/3. Saying this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated is disingenuous.

https://www.boston.com/news/coronavi...13-new-deaths/

[6oclockshadow]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

Ok, if that’s your stance, how do you feel about treatment for the following:
Smokers (cancer, emphysema, COPD, etc)
Obese (Diabetes)
Snowboarders and skateboarders (fractures)
Swimmers (near-drowning, shark bites)
Drivers (auto accidents, with and without seatbelts).

We’ll have to change the Hippocratic Oath and have all docs re-swear I suppose.

I’m vaccinated but I understand why many chose not to so far, including immunity from prior COVID, and real concerns about the vax and it being forced on them (this is part of a long mistrust of government issue for poor people especially African American inner city poor).

I also know that there are layers to the hospital capacity issue. One is we have had the pandemic in planning scenarios for decades and now in real life for 20 months. Why haven’t hospitals created surge capacity? Another, staff losses and inability/unwillingness to hire, especially nursing staff (including resignations of those who aren’t vaxed)? Perhaps there are also doc staffing issues, and other hospital staff. And then there are the treatments that seem to be very effective (monoclonal antibody is one) if given early, and reduce or eliminate hospital stay but have been politicized and now rationed, along with several claims about ivermectin and others. I’m not pretending to be expert on any of that, but mentioning some of the more real issues that complicate the vax decision for many and consequences on the health system.

ER and ICU are designed to operate near capacity. There is a shortage of HC workers, not beds. There are no ICU's currently in the US that have to refuse patients.

You left out HIV. We should refuse treatment and shun HIV patients because their risky behaviour put them in that situation.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by 6oclockshadow

As of yesterday, there are 617 people in Massachusetts hospitals with covid. 212 of them are fully vaccinated. Over 1/3. Saying this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated is disingenuous.

https://www.boston.com/news/coronavi...13-new-deaths/

So, a little less than three times as many unvaxxed are hospitalized, from a group that is 1/3 to 1/4 the size of the vaxxed group.

I don't play those odds.

[2000cs]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

So, a little less than three times as many unvaxxed are hospitalized, from a group that is 1/3 to 1/4 the size of the vaxxed group.

I don't play those odds.

Two different arguments using the same data. You’re arguing that it makes sense to get the vax based on those data. I agree, for most people.

The other argument is that the vaxxed are occupying a large number/percentage of the beds so complaining about non-vax in this regard is disingenuous. I agree with this as well.

Both can be true.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by 6oclockshadow

....
You left out HIV. We should refuse treatment and shun HIV patients because their risky behaviour put them in that situation.

Should we refuse treatments for people who step outside their doors? Or people who have throw rugs in their homes (falling risk)? Or should dog owners pay lower rates because they generally have better immune systems?

But what about....

[2000cs]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Should we refuse treatments for people who step outside their doors? Or people who have throw rugs in their homes (falling risk)? Or should dog owners pay lower rates because they generally have better immune systems?

But what about....

That is the problem, isn’t it? Rationing care based on political priorities instead of medical need is a problem IMO. And I’m not arguing our health care system is anywhere near perfect at allocating care (or care quality), either.

I didn’t know that about doggos!

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

Two different arguments using the same data. You’re arguing that it makes sense to get the vax based on those data. I agree, for most people.

The other argument is that the vaxxed are occupying a large number/percentage of the beds so complaining about non-vax in this regard is disingenuous. I agree with this as well.

Both can be true.

It doesn't matter if both are true. The unvaxxed group is using 9 -12 times the beds per. They have the power to help the system more. Or not.

[Maitre_Absolut]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

Ok, if that’s your stance, how do you feel about treatment for the following:
Smokers (cancer, emphysema, COPD, etc)
Obese (Diabetes)
Snowboarders and skateboarders (fractures)
Swimmers (near-drowning, shark bites)
Drivers (auto accidents, with and without seatbelts).

We’ll have to change the Hippocratic Oath and have all docs re-swear I suppose.

I’m vaccinated but I understand why many chose not to so far, including immunity from prior COVID, and real concerns about the vax and it being forced on them (this is part of a long mistrust of government issue for poor people especially African American inner city poor).

I also know that there are layers to the hospital capacity issue. One is we have had the pandemic in planning scenarios for decades and now in real life for 20 months. Why haven’t hospitals created surge capacity? Another, staff losses and inability/unwillingness to hire, especially nursing staff (including resignations of those who aren’t vaxed)? Perhaps there are also doc staffing issues, and other hospital staff. And then there are the treatments that seem to be very effective (monoclonal antibody is one) if given early, and reduce or eliminate hospital stay but have been politicized and now rationed, along with several claims about ivermectin and others. I’m not pretending to be expert on any of that, but mentioning some of the more real issues that complicate the vax decision for many and consequences on the health system.

this is a pandemic which causes hospitals to operate at max/over capacity. None of what you listed can cause this type of disruption in such little time. The solution brought by doctors is to take the vaccine, not a bed in a hospital.

[Maitre_Absolut]

Originally Posted by 6oclockshadow

As of yesterday, there are 617 people in Massachusetts hospitals with covid. 212 of them are fully vaccinated. Over 1/3. Saying this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated is disingenuous.

https://www.boston.com/news/coronavi...13-new-deaths/

you must not have done well in math

Massachusetts has about a 70% double vaccination rate. Therefore 30% of the population are 2/3 of hospitalizations. You see it now?