[masd79]

[ASAP]

strictly just adding this as a point of reference-

joe achiles owned an m3 comp, m3 comp xdrive, m3 touring, m2 comp and m2 cs...

he gets every version of every new bmw car lol... its rather obvious he has a deal w bmw on some sort of short term trades or leases... i am only aware of one bmws he truly spoke negatively of - XM which was universally disliked albeit had the same powerplant

[Cannondale900]

Originally Posted by ASAP

strictly just adding this as a point of reference-

joe achiles owned an m3 comp, m3 comp xdrive, m3 touring, m2 comp and m2 cs...

he gets every version of every new bmw car lol... its rather obvious he has a deal w bmw on some sort of short term trades or leases... i am only aware of one bmws he truly spoke negatively of - XM which was universally disliked albeit had the same powerplant

I agree something is up with this. BMW hand picked a few folks to drive the G90 on track at an early press event and that has made me skeptical of any of their reviews. Don't get me wrong, all of these folks are nice enough people no doubt.....just can't take every word at face value.

I used to watch more of these YT car review videos; however, I don't really have the time anymore AND I am fatigued from trying to read through any reviewer bias or subtle sponsorship deals.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Cannondale900

I agree something is up with this. BMW hand picked a few folks to drive the G90 on track at an early press event and that has made me skeptical of any of their reviews. Don't get me wrong, all of these folks are nice enough people no doubt.....just can't take every word at face value.

I used to watch more of these YT car review videos; however, I don't really have the time anymore AND I am fatigued from trying to read through any reviewer bias or subtle sponsorship deals.

i like joe achilees videos, i think they are well put together but i think he is number 1 on the bias suspect list... absolutely no idea why anyone would get 3 versions of an identical car as soon as they come out and then boast how its the greatest version lol... there has to be some backend deal to market all of these cars with bmw uk... and usually speaks very positively about all of them

then you have someone like chris harris that isn't even allowed to test the cars in certain environments because he tells it how it is... then you have marketing influencers whose opinion doesn't matter but they market the car well hence also get first dibs

bmw blog i am somewhat mixed on... i think hb does a great job with ALL of his videos and he has critiqued bmw before but very carefully and ultimately he has to act like a marketer in the end because his entire site relies on that singular brand and access to their cars

[masd79]

Take it from the forum members then, we are not sponsored.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i like joe achilees videos, i think they are well put together but i think he is number 1 on the bias suspect list... absolutely no idea why anyone would get 3 versions of an identical car as soon as they come out and then boast how its the greatest version lol... there has to be some backend deal to market all of these cars with bmw uk... and usually speaks very positively about all of them

then you have someone like chris harris that isn't even allowed to test the cars in certain environments because he tells it how it is... then you have marketing influencers whose opinion doesn't matter but they market the car well hence also get first dibs

bmw blog i am somewhat mixed on... i think hb does a great job with ALL of his videos and he has critiqued bmw before but very carefully and ultimately he has to act like a marketer in the end because his entire site relies on that singular brand and access to their cars

To me Joe is the least reliable when it comes to BMWs. I never listen or bother to watch his reviews, because to me its pretty clear he has other interests going on.

[ctelimad]

Originally Posted by ASAP

strictly just adding this as a point of reference-

joe achiles owned an m3 comp, m3 comp xdrive, m3 touring, m2 comp and m2 cs...

he gets every version of every new bmw car lol... its rather obvious he has a deal w bmw on some sort of short term trades or leases... i am only aware of one bmws he truly spoke negatively of - XM which was universally disliked albeit had the same powerplant

I am also not a ig fan but I remember he spoke negatively about the m8 coupe

[Alan l.]

Let’s discount every YouTuber/car reviewer /actual owners that has anything positive to say about this car. Instead, we should listen to your average guy that has a opinion of why this thing sucks and praise the ultimate track weapon F90.

[M5ddox]

Originally Posted by masd79

Take it from the forum members then, we are not sponsored.

Well said haha

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Let’s discount every YouTuber/car reviewer /actual owners that has anything positive to say about this car. Instead, we should listen to your average guy that has a opinion of why this thing sucks and praise the ultimate track weapon F90.

If you see my posts about the G90 I was pretty positive about it. So much so, that I ordered one after driving it 1300km in Germany.

But to say you dont feel the weight, that its.surprising and blah blah, is a load of horseshit. Joe's review doesnt have a single criticism about the car, and believe there is stuff to criticize.

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

If you see my posts about the G90 I was pretty positive about it. So much so, that I ordered one after driving it 1300km in Germany.

But to say you dont feel the weight, that its.surprising and blah blah, is a load of horseshit. Joe's review doesnt have a single criticism about the car, and believe there is stuff to criticize.

Your review of the car holds weight since you actually drove it for a good amount of distance. Unlike others here dropping in just to repeat the same thing they saw in the headlines about its weight without driving it. Worst is dismissing actual owners review of the car as if they somehow know better.

Alan

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Your review of the car holds weight since you actually drove it for a good amount of distance. Unlike others here dropping in just to repeat the same thing they saw in the headlines about its weight without driving it. Worst is dismissing actual owners review of the car as if they somehow know better.

Alan

or maybe... just maybe... some of us have driven heavier performance cars and know what 5500 lbs feels like... i heard the EXACT same arguments for the G80 etc and how it's incredible etc... then I took one for a long extended test drive ready to order one... (you can find my review someone where on G80 post if you want) and let's just say I was confused by what I drove... it wasn't an M3... but a heavier luxury GT car that was entirely numbed by all wheel drive and isolation.. was it fast and capable? Oh yea... was it fun and involving... not even the least bit and nothing since has made me want to order one as there car exudes zero fun in daily driving. People are very quick to forget that just 10 years ago... the GTR at 3900 lbs was considered a tank and made fun out of.

[masd79]

BMW has always made the previous gen owners get a little salty over new gen because they make such great cars. G80 was hated, g87 was hated, now both are the hottest cars since sliced bread. Anyone see a pattern?

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by ASAP

or maybe... just maybe... some of us have driven heavier performance cars and know what 5500 lbs feels like... i heard the EXACT same arguments for the G80 etc and how it's incredible etc... then I took one for a long extended test drive ready to order one... (you can find my review someone where on G80 post if you want) and let's just say I was confused by what I drove... it wasn't an M3... but a heavier luxury GT car that was entirely numbed by all wheel drive and isolation.. was it fast and capable? Oh yea... was it fun and involving... not even the least bit and nothing since has made me want to order one as there car exudes zero fun in daily driving. People are very quick to forget that just 10 years ago... the GTR at 3900 lbs was considered a tank and made fun out of.

so you're obsessed with having "fun" with your daily driver, so you drive a m-lite suv....? the math ain't mathing. When I hop from my g87 to a X3 m40 it's pretty night and day difference. If the you think the GXX M division cars are numb I can't imagine you enjoy the X3 at all.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by iifymbro

so you're obsessed with having "fun" with your daily driver, so you drive a m-lite suv....? the math ain't mathing. When I hop from my g87 to a X3 m40 it's pretty night and day difference. If the you think the GXX M division cars are numb I can't imagine you enjoy the X3 at all.

good thing its just the family suv lol used for errands... and i had an f87 and f80 as well that i was looking to replace w a g80... that went out the window the moment i drove it... other cars on the table now...

[ctelimad]

Originally Posted by ASAP

good thing its just the family suv lol used for errands... and i had an f87 and f80 as well that i was looking to replace w a g80... that went out the window the moment i drove it... other cars on the table now...

All current generation bmws are numbe but very capable
Only porsche still produce fun cars and not numb

[CarlosM4]

Since the F platform (which was when I got into the M, AMGs, and Porsche world), BMW has not been making the most exciting and inticing driving machines. The cars are heavily balanced to be exciting, fun to drive, easy to maintain and at the same extremely liveable, well built and practical.

The F80 was already a huge step up in all those areas to the E90, so was the F10 from the E60, but they all lost in driver engagement, steering feel and chassis communication.
BMW then improved a little (from the F10 to the F90 there was a huge improvement in regards to steering and chassis communication), from the F8x to the G8x (in Brazil we never got manual F8x and Competition, just the F8x vs G8x Competition - which is my basis point). Now it seems the brand is going backward. I drove the G90 extensively - its an awesome daily driver, its surprisingly comfortable (extremely insulated from the road, its supple, there is very few noise, the powertrain is so smooth) - but it doesn't feel like an M5.

An E60 M5 owner will be like, what the hell is this? To me as a F90 M5 CP owner it already felt very different in philosophy, almost like a M760e to be honest. Is it a bad car? In no way it is, but its not an M5 anymore. Its too heavy, if you start to push it towards the limit it feels heavy (the front end begins to wash wide compared to the F90, the steering becomes goey - not what an M5 usually does, the braking takes longer) - but if you understand its an M5 for the modern times toned down, and still stupidly fast (none of the wait for the power to come, its fuck you power on tap), then its an awesome car.

I will be honest the W212 had better steering feedback and overall a better chassis to the F10 BMW (a pity Mercedes back then had no idea how to make a gearbox work like a gearbox, and LSD to them was just a drug).

The W213 was far more engaging of a drive and much sportier than the F90 (but it was too much for a luxury sedan - which is why I kept the F90 and moved on from the AMG).

[ctelimad]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

Since the F platform (which was when I got into the M, AMGs, and Porsche world), BMW has not been making the most exciting and inticing driving machines. The cars are heavily balanced to be exciting, fun to drive, easy to maintain and at the same extremely liveable, well built and practical.

The F80 was already a huge step up in all those areas to the E90, so was the F10 from the E60, but they all lost in driver engagement, steering feel and chassis communication.
BMW then improved a little (from the F10 to the F90 there was a huge improvement in regards to steering and chassis communication), from the F8x to the G8x (in Brazil we never got manual F8x and Competition, just the F8x vs G8x Competition - which is my basis point). Now it seems the brand is going backward. I drove the G90 extensively - its an awesome daily driver, its surprisingly comfortable (extremely insulated from the road, its supple, there is very few noise, the powertrain is so smooth) - but it doesn't feel like an M5.

An E60 M5 owner will be like, what the hell is this? To me as a F90 M5 CP owner it already felt very different in philosophy, almost like a M760e to be honest. Is it a bad car? In no way it is, but its not an M5 anymore. Its too heavy, if you start to push it towards the limit it feels heavy (the front end begins to wash wide compared to the F90, the steering becomes goey - not what an M5 usually does, the braking takes longer) - but if you understand its an M5 for the modern times toned down, and still stupidly fast (none of the wait for the power to come, its fuck you power on tap), then its an awesome car.

I will be honest the W212 had better steering feedback and overall a better chassis to the F10 BMW (a pity Mercedes back then had no idea how to make a gearbox work like a gearbox, and LSD to them was just a drug).

The W213 was far more engaging of a drive and much sportier than the F90 (but it was too much for a luxury sedan - which is why I kept the F90 and moved on from the AMG).

Agree with the above but even the f90 and the M8 when you push it hard you feel the weight
The wacky front is little more in the new m5 compared to the old one but handling is still really good and can get you out of any corner as fast as the old one
I will call it an M7 not m760e
The new m5 has no to little body roll and it is still have M handling compared to Mlite products

[The0bald]

Originally Posted by ASAP

good thing its just the family suv lol used for errands... and i had an f87 and f80 as well that i was looking to replace w a g80... that went out the window the moment i drove it... other cars on the table now...

Out of interest, what car do you drive for fun then when you aren’t in the SUV?

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

Since the F platform (which was when I got into the M, AMGs, and Porsche world), BMW has not been making the most exciting and inticing driving machines. The cars are heavily balanced to be exciting, fun to drive, easy to maintain and at the same extremely liveable, well built and practical.

The F80 was already a huge step up in all those areas to the E90, so was the F10 from the E60, but they all lost in driver engagement, steering feel and chassis communication.
BMW then improved a little (from the F10 to the F90 there was a huge improvement in regards to steering and chassis communication), from the F8x to the G8x (in Brazil we never got manual F8x and Competition, just the F8x vs G8x Competition - which is my basis point). Now it seems the brand is going backward. I drove the G90 extensively - its an awesome daily driver, its surprisingly comfortable (extremely insulated from the road, its supple, there is very few noise, the powertrain is so smooth) - but it doesn't feel like an M5.

An E60 M5 owner will be like, what the hell is this? To me as a F90 M5 CP owner it already felt very different in philosophy, almost like a M760e to be honest. Is it a bad car? In no way it is, but its not an M5 anymore. Its too heavy, if you start to push it towards the limit it feels heavy (the front end begins to wash wide compared to the F90, the steering becomes goey - not what an M5 usually does, the braking takes longer) - but if you understand its an M5 for the modern times toned down, and still stupidly fast (none of the wait for the power to come, its fuck you power on tap), then its an awesome car.

I will be honest the W212 had better steering feedback and overall a better chassis to the F10 BMW (a pity Mercedes back then had no idea how to make a gearbox work like a gearbox, and LSD to them was just a drug).

The W213 was far more engaging of a drive and much sportier than the F90 (but it was too much for a luxury sedan - which is why I kept the F90 and moved on from the AMG).

i am not 100% i agree w these statements...

if you compare the e90 m3 vs the f80 m3... there were a few things that took place... the f80 was a very involving car and not numb

1. Hydraulic steering to EPS rack - I agree... this lost some feedback but gained a lot of accuracy... the f80 cs steering is arguably near perfect imho

2. the f80 dropped weight vs the e90... it got numerous CF components that the e90 never had plus a cf rear driveshaft

3. the car had solid rear frame sub bushings directly mounted onto the subframe w no rubber inserts anywhere

4. the car was also absolutely wild in mdm mode and took a keen driver to focus on driving that car even at low speeds

now w the G80-

1. we gained AWD
2. a heavier car
3. an automatic slushbox instead of dct
4. and an incredibly isolated almost luxury car chassis

yes, it more capable but not remotely as involving or fun as its predecessor F80... when i first drove a G80... i thought it was a fast luxury car

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by The0bald

Out of interest, what car do you drive for fun then when you aren’t in the SUV?

used to be f87c... now looking at supra, maybe corvette c8 or maybe a g80 if i can drive it again and it satisfies me... so far it hasn't so don't have expectations there...

[The0bald]

Originally Posted by ASAP

used to be f87c... now looking at supra, maybe corvette c8 or maybe a g80 if i can drive it again and it satisfies me... so far it hasn't so don't have expectations there...

Supra’s look good fun. On the same platform, the Z4 M40i manual looks a good buy and good fun but perhaps without the power of some of these other cars.
I’ve never driven either but think they look great.