[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Yeah, I hear ya. I think they'll make it AWD-only like the XTS V-Sport. Basically, Chevrolet's answer to the Ford Taurus SHO.

This might take another generation to play out though. We'll see.



Even with a turbo V6 instead of the V8 it would be a compelling car. However, they already have enough problems fending off competitors when trying to sell their RWD Cadillac sedans. Creating another potential competitor in-house would probably not lead to a profit increase for GM. Quite likely the opposite, unfortunately.

I agree, hopefully Ford will produce a better Taurus the next gen as for its size its cramped, and even in cop spec it leaves a bit to be desired. I say bring back the Crown Vic with an TTV6 or the 5.0, make it large and handle decent.

[GottWhat]

An inexpensive RWD 4-door is not going to happen with Ford. Like I said before, Ford didn't even want to spend the money on a RWD Lincoln sedan.

GM would be the most likely of the two as it has the right platform with the Alpha (Camaro, Cadillac ATS & CTS). But the market for an inexpensive RWD 4-door is rather niche.

The least expensive RWD 4-door sedan I can think of is the Dodge Charger. I loved our leased 2014 Chrysler 300S AWD Hemi but I admit, she was a bit porky and was on a rather dated platform.

[David70]

Originally Posted by GottWhat

An inexpensive RWD 4-door is not going to happen with Ford. Like I said before, Ford didn't even want to spend the money on a RWD Lincoln sedan.

GM would be the most likely of the two as it has the right platform with the Alpha (Camaro, Cadillac ATS & CTS). But the market for an inexpensive RWD 4-door is rather niche.

The least expensive RWD 4-door sedan I can think of is the Dodge Charger. I loved our leased 2014 Chrysler 300S AWD Hemi but I admit, she was a bit porky and was on a rather dated platform.

Agree, the argument for a cheap RWD Ford sedan when they won't spend the money for an expensive RWD Lincoln is going to be tough.

I ended up with a CPO ATS partly because I think it is the cheapest (especially long term total ownership cost) sedan that is good at going around corners and didn't see anything at Dodge/Chrysler that fit the the requirements.

[GottWhat]

Originally Posted by David70

Agree, the argument for a cheap RWD Ford sedan when they won't spend the money for an expensive RWD Lincoln is going to be tough.

I ended up with a CPO ATS partly because I think it is the cheapest (especially long term total ownership cost) sedan that is good at going around corners and didn't see anything at Dodge/Chrysler that fit the the requirements.

An ATS 2.0T w/6-speed is on my short list whenever I replace the 335.

[Chihuahua]

buh-bye now.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Yes and no if they made a car, aka one that sold it wouldn't be an issue. For that the ATS is ...its not a seller, neither was the SS.

It probably would cost GM way less to make it than we think. A low end Camaro is mid 20s, stretch it, add 2 doors.

Look at Dodge a Charger mid 20s base v6, 30s you get a V8( 2 options) then at the top you have a hellcat at 70k. The SS didn't sell as it was mid 40s before incentives, I know no law enforcement agency non federal would of bought a Caprice at 40k.

I think half the problem is GM has too many cars which compete/ overlap the same segment.

I think the odds of Ford having a RWD cheap sedan are better than GM.

The Dodge Charger is based off of a 15-year old MB S-Class platform that Chrysler uses for all of it's big sedans and coupes and started with the 300 eons ago (in car model years). The Holden Zeta platform that underpins the SS is far newer than the Charger. The SS drives far better than the Charger and is lighter.

The SS is a niche car plain and simple. 95% of the auto market is non-enthusiast so one wouldn't expect mass market sales of the SS to begin with. My buddy has a 2016 SS (bought it after I told him about it). For the $42K he paid for it it's a far better enthusiasts car than a 5-series.

[backhill]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

As typical of GM, corporate always gets in the way of logic.

Rebadging an ancient vehicle from abroad and passing it off as a new car was lame. It's the same reason why the entire Buick line sucks, they're all a bunch of badge engineered variants of Opels and Chevys. The SS looked plain, had a crap interior, crap electronics, and GM's famous crap reliability. It just goes to show how stupid GM's management continues to be by allowing such a product to reach the market. While I don't think the Kia Stinger will be a hot seller either, I admire Kia for actually putting effort into their RWD sport sedan. It looks great, the interior seems nice for what it is, and the electronics will be modern.

I can't think of many desirable vehicles from GM.

Famous crap reliability? Uh ... what? GM is known for having the most solid powertrains with great durability and longevity.
Interiors I give you. They have a long way from other competitors in the market.
Electronics have caught up with apps in the infotainment systems and they were first to market in 2016 with Apple CarPlay (along with Android)

http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...lity-study-iqs

What the aforementioned article from JD Power doesn't mention, is that GM also lead the way with the most models with highest initial quality the previous two years in 2014 and 2015.

General Motors receives seven model-level awards, followed by Toyota Motor Corporation with six and Hyundai Motor Company and Volkswagen AG, each with four.

General Motors models that rank highest in their respective segments are the Buick Cascada; Chevrolet Equinox; Chevrolet Silverado HD; Chevrolet Silverado LD; Chevrolet Spark; Chevrolet Tahoe; and GMC Terrain.

Toyota Motor Corporation models that rank highest in their segment are the Lexus CT; Lexus GS; Scion tC; Toyota Camry; Toyota Corolla; and Toyota Highlander.

Hyundai Motor Company models that rank highest in their segment are the Hyundai Accent; Hyundai Azera; Kia Soul; and Kia Sportage.

Volkswagen AG models that rank highest in their segment are the Audi Q3, Audi TT, Porsche Macan and Porsche 911.

I agree that they don't have many desirables to us and our niche segment of V8, 6MT RWD sedan lovers, but have you seen the Buick LaCrosse and sat in that thing? Great 5/7 series competitor at a fraction. Color me impressed. The Avista/Avenir concept is supposed to come to fruition as well and share a platform with the CT6.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The Dodge Charger is based off of a 15-year old MB S-Class platform that Chrysler uses for all of it's big sedans and coupes and started with the 300 eons ago (in car model years). The Holden Zeta platform that underpins the SS is far newer than the Charger. The SS drives far better than the Charger and is lighter.

The SS is a niche car plain and simple. 95% of the auto market is non-enthusiast so one wouldn't expect mass market sales of the SS to begin with. My buddy has a 2016 SS (bought it after I told him about it). For the $42K he paid for it it's a far better enthusiasts car than a 5-series.

I agree fully that the SS is a better drive then a Charger, and probably is vs a few versions of the 5.

My point being is the issue with the SS is the cost, one of the reasons it didn't sell in the U.S., look at all the options in that price bracket. Some of that has to due with how it was imported/manufactured, again if GM made a RWD sedan following the pricing trend of the Charger, the SS would of been a seller as it would of had lower transaction prices in V4 or V6, thus the niche top teir SS could still be produced. If Dodge only had the hellcat model of the charger it would die off as well. The same would apply to an M5.

The issue with a RWD platform large sedan for GM is that it has too many sedans that overlap.

That platform along with the one used for the GC is the best thing to come out of the relationship and if it wasn't for Z Germans it would be only the big 2 as the FCA group wouldn't exist.

[blinkme323]

Great idea, just horrible execution. There was zero marketing for the car and it was so nondescript / boring visually that it was never going to garner any buzz on its own. Set up to fail from the beginning...

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

I agree fully that the SS is a better drive then a Charger, and probably is vs a few versions of the 5.

My point being is the issue with the SS is the cost, one of the reasons it didn't sell in the U.S., look at all the options in that price bracket. Some of that has to due with how it was imported/manufactured, again if GM made a RWD sedan following the pricing trend of the Charger, the SS would of been a seller as it would of had lower transaction prices in V4 or V6, thus the niche top teir SS could still be produced. If Dodge only had the hellcat model of the charger it would die off as well. The same would apply to an M5.

The issue with a RWD platform large sedan for GM is that it has too many sedans that overlap.

That platform along with the one used for the GC is the best thing to come out of the relationship and if it wasn't for Z Germans it would be only the big 2 as the FCA group wouldn't exist.

I think that was GM's point, it made the SS as a niche car. Not that I'll go research it but I'd bet the M5 doesn't sell in stellar numbers as a standalone model. GM is an entirely different and far larger company than BMW, so it has a completely different production cost model than BMW. GM can produce an SS and make a profit on it because the production costs are amortized over a world-wide production base over a large volume of different chassis that share common parts. BMW doesn't have this. The M5 has to sit inside the 5-Series production volume, which makes it much more costly to produce as a niche vehicle. One only has to look at the Corvette. It is a standalone chassis within the GM product line, yet it makes profit on the Corvette and sells the car at a far less price than competitors could sell (develop and produce) a similarly performing vehicle. GM can do this because there are some many common parts in the 'Vette that cross platforms; the engine being one.

I agree with you, GM does have too many sedans that overlap in the market, but it has always had that problem for decades. The only difference was in the past, GM had close 50% market share so it could support the product differentiation; it can't now. And the car buying populace is far less educated and interested in automobiles as people were in the 1940's - 1960's (GM's heyday).

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by blinkme323

Great idea, just horrible execution. There was zero marketing for the car and it was so nondescript / boring visually that it was never going to garner any buzz on its own. Set up to fail from the beginning...

I just don't agree with this. I don't think GM ever had any intention to make it a 100,000 unit car. If you've ever been in one you'd change your mind about it being a fail. The sound of the exhaust alone is fantastic. It is quite agile and light on it's feet. It feels more like a BMW than most recent BMWs I've been in.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by GottWhat

An ATS 2.0T w/6-speed is on my short list whenever I replace the 335.

I've driven the ATS extensively. I had one for over a week (1,200 miles) and put it thought my daily commute, which is BMW-awesomeness in a jar, and I think it is the 3-Series BMW failed to produce with the F30 chassis. It's a great driving car.

[blinkme323]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I just don't agree with this. I don't think GM ever had any intention to make it a 100,000 unit car. If you've ever been in one you'd change your mind about it being a fail. The sound of the exhaust alone is fantastic. It is quite agile and light on it's feet. It feels more like a BMW than most recent BMWs I've been in.

Oh I don't doubt it. I didn't knock it from a performance / engineering perspective, but you can't deny that they dropped the ball visually...

[Vigilante375]

It was never meant to be a full production model car like a Cruze or Camaro. Something like 2500 or 3000 was the most they would make for 1 year model.

[GottWhat]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

It was never meant to be a full production model car like a Cruze or Camaro. Something like 2500 or 3000 was the most they would make for 1 year model.

I agree, they sold them all with no advertisement and minimal incentive support. I would even say they didn't want to sell many more as they likey had very low profit margins on them.

[GottWhat]

Originally Posted by blinkme323

Oh I don't doubt it. I didn't knock it from a performance / engineering perspective, but you can't deny that they dropped the ball visually...

As you know it was based on a Holden, there were limited things they could do to Chevy-ize them considering the limited sales targets. At least it looks better than the Caprice police vehicle.

[nick3753]

For those that didn't see it. The modern day e39 M5???

[eluded]

Was a great car with amazing suspension and a six speed manual. It will be missed

[DASHOCKER]

collector car.

[supra93]

If you've been considering buying a Chevy SS but haven't gotten around to pulling the trigger, you might want to make your move soon. Because as GM Authority points out, Chevrolet is about to close the order books for good.

Barely a footnote on Chevy's sales chart, the SS sedan is a niche product, even in the brand's performance portfolio. Chevrolet sold just 64 of them last month – barely two percent of the number of Camaros (or five percent of Corvettes) it moved over the same period.

That could explain why Chevy has no replacement planned, but it's not why it's being discontinued. Like the Pontiac GTO and G8 before it, the Chevy SS is based closely on the Holden Commodore (alongside which it's built in Australia). The rear-drive Commodore is now being replaced by a rebadged version of the front-drive Opel Insignia, which in turn is slated to be sold Stateside as a Buick – not a Chevy.

The Insignia is a different beast entirely though. And with the demise of the SS, GM will no longer have a direct competitor to SRT versions of the Dodge Charger.

The Chevy SS carries an MSRP of $46,625, for which you get a four-door muscle sedan packing a 6.2-liter V8 rated at 415 horsepower and an equal amount of torque. For slightly less (at $44,995), you can pick up a Dodge Charger with a 6.4-liter Hemi V8 rated at 485 hp and 475 lb-ft – never mind the flagship Hellcat model. The closest Ford gets in the midst of its EcoBoost kick is with the Taurus SHO, with a 3.5-liter twin-turbo V6 good for 365 hp and 350 lb-ft, and a $42,520 sticker price.

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/02/bet...der-books.html