[Mingwan]

Originally Posted by NicoleLusts4BMW

Sorry but I will never be buying anything Korean when it comes to a car. For those who think that might sound racist I have never owned an American car either. I hate to even rent an American car. I am sure the quality is top notch and dependability may well be above BMW. Nevertheless I'll stick with the Ultimate Driving Machine. My last three cars have been BMW and I don't see that changing. My next new car will be the new 8 series. But that won't be for a few years since I just bought the 540 last month.

several engineers that made bmw, "bmw" including Albert Biermann have jumped shipped and moved to Hyundai. Hyundai has also outsourced engineering from Lotus as well. what does bmw have now?

Hyundai isn't quite "there" yet, but their progress has been amazing for the past 10 years.

[Questofthetune]

The fact that the 3 series line could have something as awful feeing as the 320 is when I knew it wasn’t a drivers car deep in its bones lol I mean that was the worst loaner I’ve ever had! The impala Loaner i got for my wife’s car from the Chevy dealer kicked its ass

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

Your typical Hyundai buyer can't afford the Genesis brand.

they arent targetting low end hyundai buyers though.

you dont target someone with a 20k budget with a 50k car.

[mk1-fan]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

you must have not driven the new bmws...

outside the M lines, they are very uninspiring.

Compared to an M car yes, not to their natural competitors.

I have driven the following in the last two years
X3 vs GLC
3 series vs C class
5 series vs E class

In all cases the BMW was the far better car to drive wrt driver involvement.

[mk1-fan]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

Exactly.. I always loved BMW but most of the cars they have out now look alike. From the front is hard to tell them apart. The only BMW cars I would be interested in these days is the M240 and the M cars (really like the M2). The current 3 series and 4 get a from me.

It's a German thing.

For some reason all the cars look the same.

With VW, the interiors especially are a copy and paste affair. Merc as well.

[mk1-fan]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Also amusing that BMW's are being made in China, South Africa and South Carolina, but Korea is somehow seen as inferior. Should probably not look into where your tv came from.

Mine is made in Germany

But seriously, it doesn't matter where they are made, as long as the same standards are applied it's OK.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by R N M

Good luck to Genesis- Hopefully it’s still around in 10years.

Lexus and Infiniti can’t sell IS, GS, Q50 etc.....Most ppl buy the badge- MB, BMW and maybe Audi.

I think the prior iterations of those cars sold well. It baffles me why the current generations didn't do as hot as they were much improved, especially the Q50 compared to the G37.

#1 reason in my mind is the rise of the CUV. Automakers have shifter their focus to that market and neglected their sedans. The current IS and GS were excellent cars when they came out and sold well, but that was like 6 yrs ago. With the sedan market contracting, some brands are going to be left behind, especially with how aggressive the Germans are with their leasing.

[Red Bread]

Infiniti's stupid steering is their downfall. The G37/Qwhateever lost all sportiness. It's got power, but it's a sloppy mess. Kinda like an F30.

[Cyanfall]

Update.
I went to a genesis dealer and sit in one g70.
The interior is nice, i would argue nicer than a audi a4/5, similar to 3/4 quality wise but designed a bit better (current gen f3x), inferior to c class as expected. All the buttons and switches feels nice and gaugets and centre screens are functional.
The seat though, looks nice but is its downfall. It did not hold my body tight enough in place. It might not be a problem if im 20 lbs fatter, but im not. And the seating positionis quite high. I always prefer lowest possible sitting position, almost butt on the floor. The seat of g70 does not allow me do that, it only lowers to a height i found too high for my taste.
The steering wheel feels kinda too hard, not comfortable to hold, definitely not as good as m steering wheel. but its ok. The gas paddle does not have the firm feeling i prefer but its ok.
Driving experience wise. Since I have no plan to buy the car, i was not shameless enough to ask for a test drive and waste their time and fuel. I cannot comment on this.

[shmad]

Originally Posted by mk1-fan

Compared to an M car yes, not to their natural competitors.

I have driven the following in the last two years
X3 vs GLC
3 series vs C class
5 series vs E class

In all cases the BMW was the far better car to drive wrt driver involvement.

any bmw should have more involvement than any mercedes (AMG excluded obviously). thats the nature of their cars...

[JamesGames]

The koreans make MUCH better cars now, and their improvement in the last 10-20 years might be unparalleled.. You can see this by the statistics of reliability and rank, as well as their growth from one generation of a model to the next. This isn't up for debate anymore.

With that said - the cost of these cars aren't exactly budget anymore either. Some of their "luxury / sport" models cost a good penny. They make decent quality cars and a lot of times you aren't saving much by choosing these options - and the biggest issue to me is none of these cars excite me or look appealing to me. As a daily driver sure - as a car that I buy to enjoy my car hobby, no.

I own different cars - each do their own tasks

A kia would be a great daily driver, but I wouldn't be down to throw good money on one. Just my opinion

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by mk1-fan

Compared to an M car yes, not to their natural competitors.

I have driven the following in the last two years
X3 vs GLC
3 series vs C class
5 series vs E class

In all cases the BMW was the far better car to drive wrt driver involvement.

Exactly and I've compared to many others
BMW is still the best overall sports sedan

if yer a soccer mom, get a 320
if yer a young guy, get a 320 and tune it
if you have the $ get the 340 VSS track package the engine, components, and tweaks are worth it

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Exactly and I've compared to many others
BMW is still the best overall sports sedan

The difference is marginal, whereas in the past it was clear.

The Germans have spent so long attempting to capture the same customer that they've built the exact same car. It just comes down to brand and interior preference nowadays, along with who will offer you the best lease.

The Bimmer and A4 are the best all-rounders in the segment, but I think the general consensus is that the Giulia, XE, and ATS are all better drivers' cars. And you know what? That's a real shame.

I'm not sure how the Giulia is selling but I know the Jag and Caddy have been total flops.

[P1]

Coming to an Avis near you...

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

The difference is marginal, whereas in the past it was clear.

The Germans have spent so long attempting to capture the same customer that they've built the exact same car. It just comes down to brand and interior preference nowadays, along with who will offer you the best lease.

The Bimmer and A4 are the best all-rounders in the segment, but I think the general consensus is that the Giulia, XE, and ATS are all better drivers' cars. And you know what? That's a real shame.

I'm not sure how the Giulia is selling but I know the Jag and Caddy have been total flops.

I agree the margin is diminished.. and I like the Giulia (despite its owl-like styling)
but that margin is where its all at
the engine atop the 3 is a real beauty & the beast with low end torque aplenty and turbo kickin in at ~1500rpms
the 3 series chassis is already one of if not the stiffest chassis for a sports sedan (im fairly certain its the stiffest in its segment)
everyone is pretty much complaining about the electric steering
and the soft spring & dampers they put in for the soccer moms in the standard 3
ya want a nice soft ride AND to be able to feel the road.. sorry cant have it both ways
BMW is figuring they will cater to the soccer moms and commuters with the standard 3
then get the enthusiasts with the 340/M340 which is an m-lite
then get the sportcar guys with the M series
I think they have the right strategy for money making and marketshare taking
its not exactly what we enthusiasts (at least some of us) want
their lineup is blurred.. you need to know how to configure to get what they used to putout for enthusiasts
so people buy a 320 and complain about BMW losin its mojo
well who do you think theyre aiming at with that product
they want to steer you upwards towards the M if you want a driver's car

[RM7]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

then get the enthusiasts with the 340/M340 which is an m-lite
then get the sportcar guys with the M series

Except they'll try to sell you X-drive if you live north of Florida and the X-drive gets the shittiest suspension of all, M-sport packages do nothing for it and even the 340/440 have pretty miserable suspension in the x-drive package. BMW builds the x-drive cars "higher", like a subaru outback, to fit the AWD components in there. Audi kicks BMWs rear end here, even with their engine placement, they make the dynamics of their AWD car match the engine and performance expectations. I haven't driven the mercedes 4matic equivalent, but it'd have to be pretty bad to be as bad as the BMW. There are places where the x-drive is nice, but BMW makes it really crappy at the 3-level and only starts to make it decent on the 5 series (as in performance orientated).

[c1pher]

Just imagine if Yugo followed Hyundai’s footsteps. Where would they be now?

I think the looks are too polarizing. The interior will look dated in a couple years. The trick to diamond quilting leather is to use it sparingly. The whole thing looks like they tried too hard. Just my opinion for what it’s worth.

[Mingwan]

I don’t think the looks are polarizing at all. In fact, that’s the main issue I have with Hyundai. They don’t stand out enough. They’re still copying certain aspects of designs (conservative) from other manufacturers and stitching them together making for what I think are ultimately safe choices in Hyundai’s design language.

Some examples:

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Except they'll try to sell you X-drive if you live north of Florida and the X-drive gets the shittiest suspension of all, M-sport packages do nothing for it and even the 340/440 have pretty miserable suspension in the x-drive package. BMW builds the x-drive cars "higher", like a subaru outback, to fit the AWD components in there. Audi kicks BMWs rear end here, even with their engine placement, they make the dynamics of their AWD car match the engine and performance expectations. I haven't driven the mercedes 4matic equivalent, but it'd have to be pretty bad to be as bad as the BMW. There are places where the x-drive is nice, but BMW makes it really crappy at the 3-level and only starts to make it decent on the 5 series (as in performance orientated).

I dont have awd .. a rwd purist ova here

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

I don’t think the looks are polarizing at all. In fact, that’s the main issue I have with Hyundai. They don’t stand out enough. They’re still copying certain aspects of designs (conservative) from other manufacturers and stitching them together making for what I think are ultimately safe choices in Hyundai’s design language.

I still find the G70 to be very handsome. But yeah like the G80 and G90 it's a tad derivative. Sort of a melting pot of different design cues into one car.

Something about this interior just doesn't look upmarket enough for me. The design is closer to the likes of a Mazda or VW than an Audi. Material quality looks on point though.

[Darth One]

Hyundai has made immense strides and has gone from straight garbage to a contender. But I'd still give them a generation or two before they become truly world class.

To me, world class is innovative and better in at least some respects than anyone else. Hyundai right now is 100% derivative on styling, technology, and everything else.

Looking at these Genesises and Stingers, they all look like copies that give you 90% of the real thing but at an amazing value. Which is a great business model but not quite there yet if you're a customer that demands the best

[EDWYER]

Originally Posted by TheRussski

Putting lipstick on a pig

Yep.