[thebmw]

Folks, as unkind as it may seem, a contract is a contract. BMWCCA1 is correct, a car lease contract is like any other rental contract. Again, you have 3 options:
1. Terminate the lease contract early and pay the termination fee.
2. Keep the car until the end of the lease and pay the monthly fees.
3. Sell the lease to someone else using swapalease or services like that.

[Socal_R8]

https://www.esslawfirm.com/Articles/...ery-Expensive/

[RMachuca3d]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

You exhibit a basic misunderstanding of leases and contracts. Our dealership has to pay what the lessee owes plus the residual value to purchase the car from BMW on an early termination. Leases are cheap on a monthly basis because the manufacturer places an artificially high residual value which lowers the payment. BMW doesn't care if the car is worth half the residual value at the end because they sold a car. For example, I've never seen a customer purchase an i3 at the end of their lease because in many cases that cost is $10,000 or more over the market value of the car.

For us to buy a car from BMW FS, particularly one in a legal action like bankruptcy or death, costs us the remainder of the payments plus the residual. In many cases the manufacturer cannot sell the car except at auction which determines the value in the market and then factors that into what the estate or bankruptcy charges the original lessee owes.

In these modern times, the dealership might make $2000 leasing a $70k car to a customer. No matter how tragic their circumstances, how do you reasonably expect a dealership to overpay $10,000 or more to help make a bereaved family whole?

Why continue to vilify the dealership? What happens if you die and you still have a home mortgage? Is it the fault of the realtor who sold you the house if it's not worth your mortgage balance? Is it even the bank's fault? So who sucks it up? Do you charge your broker back if you bought stock and had to cash-in to pay health costs and your investment has tanked?

In case you hadn't noticed, there is a lot of unfairness in this world, just as there is risk associated with all purchases that a consumer assumes with little thought. I've worked for dealerships since 1976 and even owned my own for about five-years. I doubt I'd have some third-generation customers from the same family still buying from me today if we act with the malevolence you casually assign to all dealerships in your statements.

Again, lease payments are protected by the included GAP coverage (free in a BMW lease) if the car is totaled. Just like your house, your insurance covers you in case of damage. It does not cover you in the case of depreciation if you want to get out of the mortgage. Or if you die.

If you must place blame in a society where personal responsibility seems to have taken a hike, then blame the manufacturer. Or sue them. That's what the President does.

Ah yes, i forgot about bmw’s optimistic residuals, i do see how that would be an issue.

By the way, on reddit there is a place where all car salesman/f&i, managers etc all shoot the shit and share their stories about how big a hosing they give their customers, i often frequent there to stay up to date with the latest dealer trends and the state of the industry, I’m sure there are a lot of good dealers/salesman/managers, but sadly its an exception to the norm. There is a reason stereotypes exist, and it sucks being labeled as something when you’ve done all you can to be anything but the typical dealership type, so i understand your frustration, you can thank all the other shitty dealers for the hate.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by RMachuca3d

By the way, on reddit there is a place where all car salesman/f&i, managers etc all shoot the shit and share their stories about how big a hosing they give their customers, i often frequent there to stay up to date with the latest dealer trends and the state of the industry, I’m sure there are a lot of good dealers/salesman/managers, but sadly its an exception to the norm. There is a reason stereotypes exist, and it sucks being labeled as something when you’ve done all you can to be anything but the typical dealership type, so i understand your frustration, you can thank all the other shitty dealers for the hate.

Who wants to be "typical"?

Ask some of those Reddit participants how long they've been in the business. You don't think that in my over 40-years in the industry I know what the bad ones are like? I'll guarantee you the good ones don't waste a lot of time bragging online about how they've abused their customers!

For me, the abuse goes the other way. I spend hours with potential buyers educating them on the different models, what options they need, and showing them why, for me, BMW is the best choice—if it is. Often my reward is they return with a competitive bid (often on my car) from another dealership they've contacted by phone or email, never using that sale rep's expertise or time. Sure, I understand customers' need to get the best deal. What I don't understand is their lack of respect for my time and knowledge. But I don't dwell on it. Do I go out of my way in the future to help them with an issue? And if I actually don't sell them the car and they come to me for help with the one they bought elsewhere, I'll help. But I will also remind them of why they should have worked with me in the first place!

I have integrity, but I also have pride in my knowledge and expertise. I should have retired years ago but I enjoy making people happy with their car purchases. I continue to work because of those who appreciate what I do for them. I really couldn't care less about how others in the car business do it. And I often have to fight my own management staff to do the right thing. It is certainly not the same business as when I started and the owner of the store lived just down the street! Believe me, I realize that, and the reputation that goes with it.

[RMachuca3d]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Who wants to be "typical"?

Ask some of those Reddit participants how long they've been in the business. You don't think that in my over 40-years in the industry I know what the bad ones are like? I'll guarantee you the good ones don't waste a lot of time bragging online about how they've abused their customers!

For me, the abuse goes the other way. I spend hours with potential buyers educating them on the different models, what options they need, and showing them why, for me, BMW is the best choice—if it is. Often my reward is they return with a competitive bid (often on my car) from another dealership they've contacted by phone or email, never using that sale rep's expertise or time. Sure, I understand customers' need to get the best deal. What I don't understand is their lack of respect for my time and knowledge. But I don't dwell on it. Do I go out of my way in the future to help them with an issue? And if I actually don't sell them the car and they come to me for help with the one they bought elsewhere, I'll help. But I will also remind them of why they should have worked with me in the first place!

I have integrity, but I also have pride in my knowledge and expertise. I should have retired years ago but I enjoy making people happy with their car purchases. I continue to work because of those who appreciate what I do for them. I really couldn't care less about how others in the car business do it. And I often have to fight my own management staff to do the right thing. It is certainly not the same business as when I started and the owner of the store lived just down the street! Believe me, I realize that, and the reputation that goes with it.

Wish there where more of you!

And its a two way road my friend, my time and money has been wasted countless times by lying salesman\women who promise the car is "pristine", only to drive 3 hours to see the damn thing and its beat to shit, or negotiate the price of a car where both parties are at a happy medium, only to hit the finance goblin where magically that price is 2k more because they've sprayed on some BS fabric protector on leather and they cant reduce the price since it's already been applied lol.... anyways, you probably know and have seen all of these tactics and more, just saying both sides are full of DBags.

[thebmw]

There was a great sales rep who fit the description BMWCCA1 just described. He was arguably responsible for making European Delivery famous in the US. He started EDBMW.com. His name was Irv and he had sadly passed many years ago.

Irv told me exactly the same stories of how he would spend enormous time with clients educating them and they would buy a car from someone else because it was $100 cheaper. Usually those other sales agents were "typical" salesmen and screwed their clients over in other ways and those clients didn't even realize it. So just as much as bad salespeople are to blame, people are to blame too. They don't read contracts and they definitely don't understand the value of good honest people.

In my field (which is not automotive), I am very well known across the country as being one of the leaders in my fields with enormous integrity. I spend oodles of time with people as their educator and advocate. Many people recognize and appreciate it. Other people just use me and don't even give me thanks. It sucks.

It seems to me that people like me are getting more and more rare as society thinks that everything can run on an app.

[unc879wins]

Originally Posted by thebmw

Folks, as unkind as it may seem, a contract is a contract. BMWCCA1 is correct, a car lease contract is like any other rental contract. Again, you have 3 options:
1. Terminate the lease contract early and pay the termination fee.
2. Keep the car until the end of the lease and pay the monthly fees.
3. Sell the lease to someone else using swapalease or services like that.

It's the "you" that is key. The "you" in this case is deceased. With no other signees on the lease, this would seem to fall on the particular state's "community property" laws as for the surviving spouse's (non signee) liability on an agreement she didn't sign.

Even in community property states, a lender going after a non-signee widow would be a bad look. If I were her, just let the lender rack up a ton of collection & legal expenses then file BK7 just prior to judgment. Discharge the debt. She's 74 now, she's not worried about a FICO score.

There's swords to fall on in consumer lending and collections, this isn't one of them.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by RMachuca3d

And its a two way road my friend, my time and money has been wasted countless times by lying salesman\women who promise the car is "pristine", only to drive 3 hours to see the damn thing and its beat to shit . . .

In my nearly 50-years of BMW ownership, I have never purchased a used car from a dealership. The only BMWs I ever purchased new were two motorcycles, one in 1971, the other in 1977. I did buy a Toyota truck new in 1974—and still have it. That was back before trucks were required to have Monroney (MSRP) stickers, so imagine what dealerships could try to get away with!

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by unc879wins

It's the "you" that is key. The "you" in this case is deceased. With no other signees on the lease, this would seem to fall on the particular state's "community property" laws as for the surviving spouse's (non signee) liability on an agreement she didn't sign.

Even in community property states, a lender going after a non-signee widow would be a bad look. If I were her, just let the lender rack up a ton of collection & legal expenses then file BK7 just prior to judgment. Discharge the debt. She's 74 now, she's not worried about a FICO score.

There's swords to fall on in consumer lending and collections, this isn't one of them.

Why can't the car just be turned in when the lease is up? No harm, no foul, no early termination, etc.

[unc879wins]

Originally Posted by thebmw

Why can't the car just be turned in when the lease is up? No harm, no foul, no early termination, etc.

A few things to consider;

- I think OP said mom couldn't afford the vehicle.
- she's not on title/reg (and possibly insurance) if leased in husband's name only.
- depending on the state, it could be considered a third party conversion

Lender should have taken the vehicle back and moved on. Cost of doing business.