[2020G05]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Today I stumbled across an article from C/D talking about Infiniti teasing for the 3rd time the new QX55 SUV. If you don't know what the 55 means welcome to the club. This is essentially a coupe-suv version of the QX50, it was supposed to be released last year but no one knows why its become so delayed, but I assume it has to do with the whole Nissan-Ghosn controversy.

Anyways, this got me to thinking, "Why the hell does Infiniti still exist?" Seriously, why? They have zero, and I mean zero interesting products in their line up. I won't speak much about the 90's but rather start with their golden era: the 2000's. Back in the 2000's with the G, M and FX, they were an underdog brand, someone to root for success. Their cars drove beautifully, and put Infiniti on the market. Unlike most Lexus or Acura cars that shared their platforms with their conventional brand's FWD econoboxes, Infiniti had used the FM platform from their 350Z to create RWD Sport Luxury Sedans, and two Crossovers. I use to refer to Infiniti as the Japanese BMW. They weren't as stylish or luxurious as the BMW or Benz competition, but they were excellent driver's cars with nice interior finishes that weren't available at the lower end Nissan level, and above all else boasted Japanese quality and reliability (well, except for maybe the first gen automatics...). In the 2000's I was recommending Infiniti to everyone, a stark contrast from today.

The excellent compact G sedan and coupe are now the Q50 and Q60. They look excellent, but inside use decade old software, include an incredibly bad steer-by-wire system (the worst in the industry) which removes all feel and is incredibly hard to place on the road, and excellent handling is gone, along with the decent reliability. It wasn't only until recently that Apple Carplay was even offered among very little meaningless updates.

The M, the mid-sized 5/E competitor soldiered on for 10 years without any interesting updates. It was discontinued last year with no successor in sight. The FX, arguably one of the first sporty "coupe-like" styled SUV's suffered the same fate as the M.

The EX, which was essentially a G hatchback on stilts, is now a beautiful SUV, but my god what have they done to the platform. It went from RWD, Naturally-Aspirated and great handling to being based off the rental Rogue! Even worse they paired it to the infamously unreliable and infuriating Jatco CVT. The interior design improved but again they used the Q50's old software while even the most basic of Nissan's received better tech, and paired it with the steer-by-wire system. And the Variable-Compression engine, a unique engineered engine, fails at its one goal, MPG, which a basic X3 or GLC can easily beat.

Other forgettable vehicles in the lineup include the recently discontinued QX30, aka the MB GLA in better sheetmetal but still arguably a s**t car, the QX 60 midsized SUV, which is a decade old Pathfinder that also shares old tech, unreliable transmissions and generic interior that couldn't bother to be different from its Nissan sibling, and lastly the QX80, also a decade old, although at least RWD and truck based, but horribly dated full-size SUV.

And then we have the naming convention. Alpha-numeric names are already forgettable as it is, but the G, M and FX were at least memorable after they established themselves in the market. So once they finally established themselves you know what they did? They changed everything, and moved to Q for sedans and QX for SUV's. This is pretty much as bad as Cadillac's naming scheme, not to mention throws out many nameplates people resonate or remember for new ones they couldn't possibly care for.

It seems all Infiniti has left for its lineup is fleet sales and low lease payments, but again they can't even increase their sales in a SUV obsessed market, which just shows the market simply doesn't care for Infiniti, hell, they can't even spell the name correctly.

And even worse is the concepts. Infiniti has surprisingly brought many concept cars to stage within the last decade, two of which were actually very exciting vehicles, ones to bring hope for those who lost it, and possibly a return of the handling magic that Infiniti's use to include. All of these have yet to actually become a production vehicle, and likely never will. The Eau Rogue, an M3 fighting sports sedan with 500+ hp and a powertrain from the GTR premiered, even had press drives with C/D simply stating "build it, please," never reached production. The Q60 Black S, a sports coupes that would take on the M4 with 500+ hp and F1 tech, never reached production. There was even an electric car concept, that literally failed to make it on stage. Seriously the car wouldn't start and could not drive on stage. If there was ever an embarrassing moment that sums up Nissan/Infiniti as a whole, this would be it. On Infiniti's website there are three concept cars which are simply just the QX 50 and QX 80 which makes we wonder if they even bothered updating the website after all these years, and then there are four others also which will likely cease to exist.

So, what does the future hold for Nissan and Infiniti? Honestly things look pretty bleak. Before Corona they were struggling and this will just make things even worse. They have pulled Infiniti out of Europe, and Nissan is now structuring Infiniti as a "Nissan-Plus" brand and cutting off workers, and 10% of the company lineup. Search Infiniti in automotive news and its hard to find a positive article, the first seven searches on Jalopnik brought me these articles, all of which do not put a good light on Nissan, and the articles were all written within a year.

At this point, Nissan should just put Infiniti out of their misery.

https://jalopnik.com/infiniti-is-get...med-1838822316
https://jalopnik.com/yep-infiniti-go...med-1840829250
https://jalopnik.com/nissans-restruc...bus-1843822881
https://jalopnik.com/its-infinitis-3...-it-1839724145
https://jalopnik.com/infiniti-doesnt...ity-1844043636
https://jalopnik.com/infiniti-quits-europe-1833235368
https://jalopnik.com/nissan-thinks-i...lan-1840013309

Curious to hear your thoughts on Infiniti/Nissan as a brand, as well as if you had any experience with the failing brands.

Some reminders of the good ol' days of Infinti.
[IMG]https://cdn.motor-junkie.com/wp-cont...5-coupe-9.jpeg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/i..._oem_1_500.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/i..._1_600x263.jpg[/IMG]

Edit: Mods fix typo in the poll.

Not to mention their IPDM was still an issue for 2017 MY. Looking back it had been talked about 10 years ago and still happened to a 2016 MY car.

[chassis]

After 45 posts and one month, what is the summary of this topic? jstein55 ?

Looks like Nissan in 2019 sold 5 million vehicles. Let's assume USD20k per vehicle selling price, so this is USD100 billion per year in revenue. $100b is supported with other data sources.

$100b is alot of revenue. It's an established book of business that, if Nissan can't be profitable with it, someone else could be, on an ongoing basis. For this to happen, an investor is needed to is willing and able to operate Nissan as an ongoing concern.

A different view is that investor (private equity, for example) could purchase the business, make significant changes, and make money. Significant changes might mean selling off factories and products, and exiting unprofitable markets/geographies. Then throw in the cards (liquidate or close) the rest of it and walk away with billions in realized profits. This is capitalism, like it or not.

[psuibmw]

This figure shows sales for the Nissan group in US. You can see the Infiniti lineup account for about 8% of the sales in US No doubt Infiniti new models are no excitement at all, so I would say kill it with no regrets, no one will care or even notice

[kb2wji]

I had an '06 G35 coupe 6MT and loved it. Got rid of it in '08 but shouldn't have. My current family car is a new QX60 - we really liked the 3rd row seat but it's tech is about 10 years old. Don't get me started on the transmission. It's an abomination. It drives well on the interstate with 5 people and loads of luggage, so it won't get kicked out of the garage quite yet. Probably get into a new Highlander next though. I wouldn't be surprised if Infinity went under in the next 5 years.

[Melbourn3]

We are a big infiniti family, family bought an 04 g35 sedan back in 03 and let me tell you that was THE car to have. That era was just something else, later on after I grew up and after my first few cars, I bought an 08 G37s with the 5at, although the car looked absolutely beautiful the transmission in that car was pure dog shit. I really liked that car but the handling just wasn’t there for me personally but I do believe that exterior was one of the best and to this day I still think they’re beautiful cars. Fast forward to 2018 I leased a 2018 q50 redsport. Let me tell you this, the car goes and stops very well. The handling is shit, infotainment shit, service at the dealer shit, dealing with the shitty handling and the old navigation system really turned me off, the only reason I got the car cause the lease was significantly lower than a BMW 340i, so that says it all. I will never go back to infiniti after this one. But for someone who doesn’t care about handling or driving that much it’s a cool car because it looks nice and goes pretty fast, but top speed on that thing with the steering feel is not a good one.

[Burrcold]

My 03 G35 Coupe 6MT that I bought new when they first came out. Loved that car but it was/will be the last Infiniti I ever own unfortunately.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

My 03 G35 Coupe 6MT that I bought new when they first came out. Loved that car but it was/will be the last Infiniti I ever own unfortunately.

That car was Infiniti at its peak. It was soooo cool back in the day. After the E92 3-series the G35 was THE coupe to have.

Now it's sad seeing all these old G coupes beaten up, tinted, plasti-dipped, and driven recklessly by the local weed dealer.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

That car was Infiniti at its peak. It was soooo cool back in the day. After the E92 3-series the G35 was THE coupe to have.

Now it's sad seeing all these old G coupes beaten up, tinted, plasti-dipped, and driven recklessly by the local weed dealer.

It's funny because it was really Infiniti at its infancy as well. It definitely is sad seeing the old G35's in such terrible condition. My neighbor actually has a 2005 G35 Coupe 6MT that is 100% stock that he's owned since new. It has 40k miles on it and is in perfect condition (I so badly want to buy it from him lol...my wife would probably approve since that was the car I was driving when we started dating Haha).

[stein_325i]

For the 24% who voted "there is still hope," unsurprisingly things just get more and more depressing for Infiniti who is one foot in the grave already. The High-Performance Q60 Project Black S, which used F1 Tech, has been cancelled. This isn't the first time a high-performance Q50/60 was cancelled though, that would be the 2014 Q50 Eau Rogue Concept, which was Infiniti's GT-R engined four-door to rival the M3. Many other concepts have come and gone over the years, with no news of production.

Originally Posted by Motor1

The company's priorities shifted away from building a niche performance coupe.

A lot has happened in the world since 2017, so we can't blame anyone for forgetting about the Infiniti Q60 Project Black S concept. It boasted 563 horsepower (420 kilowatts) and was supposed to make use of Formula One powertrain tech. However, the company has officially canceled the undertaking, according to Automotive News.

"The concept continues to inspire us," Infiniti spokesperson Kyle Bazemore told Automotive News. The Project Black S is never seeing production, though.

Former Infiniti boss Roland Krueger was reportedly the person spearheading the Q60 Project Black S concept within the company. However, when he left to take over Dyson's automotive development, the program died with no one else to push it onto the market.

The Q60 Project Black S used a twin-turbo 3.0-liter V6 with three motor-generator units for energy recovery and a 4.4 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery for storing the power. In total, this setup was good for 563 hp (420 kW) and 350 pound-feet (475 Newton-meters) of torque. It was able to reach 62 miles per hour (100 kilometers per hour) in under four seconds, the company estimated. The automaker completed two fully running prototypes for testing this powertrain.

As of August 2019, Infiniti's decision-makers were making the final choice about whether to put the Project Black S into production. Clearly, they gave it the thumbs down.

Dealers aren't broken-hearted about losing the Project Black S. "I would much rather see something like the QX60 [crossover]. That's a volume vehicle, that's where this company needs to go," Ed Lennon, the Infiniti National Dealer Advisory Board chairman, told Automotive News.

Under Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi's new strategy, Infiniti is focusing on appealing to the United States and China. This plan might include not replacing any of its rear-drive coupes and sedans when they reach the end of their lifetimes. More crossovers are likely on the way.

Remember The Infiniti Q60 Project Black S With F1 Tech? It's Dead Now

[kyriian]

That is such a shame... but its also no suprise really.

Nissan should have moved the Ariya to the Infiniti brand. Yes the mother brand is also struggling big time, but at least they can offer cheap cars for less to keep themselves afloat for awhile, whereas Infiniti really needs SOMETHING to start bringing people into the showroom. The Ariya would have done that even if it is not their volume mover.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by kyriian

That is such a shame... but its also no suprise really.

Nissan should have moved the Ariya to the Infiniti brand. Yes the mother brand is also struggling big time, but at least they can offer cheap cars for less to keep themselves afloat for awhile, whereas Infiniti really needs SOMETHING to start bringing people into the showroom. The Ariya would have done that even if it is not their volume mover.

Yep, the last time Infiniti introduced an EV concept years ago, it failed to get driven on stage. That is the last time Infiniti and EV were together creating a poor image. Since then, there have been two concepts that have yet to see the light of day or even receive an update on whether they will eventually turn into production vehicles.

The next product Infiniti will be releasing is the QX60 which will be a re-skinned Pathfinder. Luckily it will finally be fresh after 10 years, and have a new design, infotainment, and no CVT.

[nioh_lbbm2]

Nissan as a brand should just die. They're useless and don't innovate. Churning out the same cars out for 2 decades now.

[jmack]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

The next product Infiniti will be releasing is the QX60 which will be a re-skinned Pathfinder. Luckily it will finally be fresh after 10 years, and have a new design, infotainment, and no CVT.

They might as well have kept the Jatco CVT in it when the "upgrade" is the ZF9, which has been nearly as bad for both FCA and Honda.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2

Nissan as a brand should just die. They're useless and don't innovate. Churning out the same cars out for 2 decades now.

Really if they just disappeared nobody would miss them (outside of a very, very small handful of brand fanboys) as competitors offer superior options to their entire lineup.

[nioh_lbbm2]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Really if they just disappeared nobody would miss them (outside of a very, very small handful of brand fanboys) as competitors offer superior options to their entire lineup.

I feel if they continue to approve financing on literally anyone that walks into their doors they'll continue to stay afloat just to skirt by.

[hellrotm]

The new 2022 Nissan Frontier could be a player in the mid-size truck category. I could see it selling well. Actually looks really good.

[stein_325i]

INFINITI USA reports 2021 first quarter sales

Just for reference, Infiniti once again has suffered a 25% YTD sales drop for the first quarter of 2021. This is very worrisome for Infiniti as this is the fourth first quarter YTD sales loss for the brand since 2018.

Q1 2018 experienced a 6.1% sales drop, Q2 2019 experienced a 16.1% loss, and Q1 2020 experienced a 25% loss. While this was expected for 2020 due to the beginning of the pandemic and closing of dealers, as well as less consumer spending, numerous automotive companies this year however are reporting quarter one sales gains of up to triple digits.

The only car in Infiniti's lineup to post an increase in sales was the QX50 SUV, with every other vehicle in Infiniti's lineup presenting a loss of double digits in YTD sales.

[jmack]

Almost every other car manufacturer saw gains first quarter but Infiniti still lost. Amazing.

[heavyD^2]

That's a really bad sign for Nissan. If they can't increase sales over peak pandemic times I'm not sure what they will be able to do to gain customer confidence again.

[The__J__Factor]

The brand no one asked for and the cars no one wants. Winning.