[Piper1]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

But he didn't lift. He is on the gas, huge understeer then SNAP. It's really weird and maybe yeah a kerb as others said. 200hp and heavy understeer is a weird place to suddenly snap oversteer.

It's possible, and just a theory, won't know unless we ask the driver but he could've had a (or more than 1) "Waterford Wheel". Out of the 3 tracks I've been to in MI this by far has been the most fun, was able to get there for the first time this year for an event put on by a couple guys from here.

Waterford Hills track is part of the Oakland County Sportsmans Club complex so there's more there than just the track including a shooting range.

There's a few run offs that even before drivers meet (also talked about during the meet) I was warned about where there's very soft grass patches and if you go on them clumps of grass will pack in between the wheel and tire ultimately breaking the bead seal and packing grass inside the wheel. With the corners there it'll work its way in worst case it'll give the effect of a blow out so it's possible with the over working of the tires "if" everything was set up properly he could've been down on tire pressure and not know it especially if new.
There were stories I've heard of fist fulls of grass coming out of wheels from people talking to the local tire shop a mile or so away. They're so used to it that if you tell the tire shop you've got a Waterford Wheel they get you in and out quick so you don't miss much track time. If that was the case and he had a tire or more go off even under visual inspection if it's worked its way in possibly hard to tell so when in doubt get it checked out if that was the case.

Also prior to going there I watched a youtube video put together by a guy in his nsx of How to at Waterford Hills and he does comment there if you don't have compliant suspension for it stay off the curbs so who knows what mix was there to really unsettle it on him. It's definitely a miatas playground for sure such a fun and challenging track and happy I wasn't the only Z4 out there.

[imperfectluck]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Any car is practically 'powerful' enough if one wants to push it and the Miata is no slouch despite silly stereotypes. Loss of traction is loss of traction, no matter the car, and he aggravated that by lifting, so I guess that's why.

In this age of information, I'm still surprised some ppl still lift. When I ran into black ice or enter a corner too hot in snow and the car starts going crazy, swerving, I always keep my throttle constant and steer the heck out of danger. It's like instinct. Lifting is just asking for trouble.

Had to respond to this one because I resonate with it a lot before I started tracking and understanding when breaking the limits how to respond, I never instinctually lifted off of the throttle as I suppose I played on a lot of racing sims to understand the physics of the rear snap back and how to not have that oh sh*t moment.

On track I would turn off traction and just learn the corners and start pushing a bit more each time granted I'm a bit more than novice these days, if I ever feel uncomfortable I err on the side of less send as opposed to full send and I'm a man that loves the sending.

Before the tires are even howling, I understand my F87 chassis very well now to know how to tip toe in and out of throttle. The chassis has to be honest taught me how to approach learning other cars and the few times I've tracked an F90 though quite different, I applied the same principles and had a blast.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

But he didn't lift. He is on the gas, huge understeer then SNAP. It's really weird and maybe yeah a kerb as others said. 200hp and heavy understeer is a weird place to suddenly snap oversteer.

To be fair, we don't really know and even the driver said he didn't know if he inadvertently lifted or not.

I just dunno if that little curb bump could've made it so unstable like that though. It's all guessing from me anyway, I'm no authority, jm2c.

[No one]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

What do you mean by trailing throttle? Porsche's tend to bite if you lift, keep your foot in or hold and they tend to stay planted.

Those must be FWD Porsches.

[BeEmVe]

Originally Posted by jmg

Driver got on the track, cold tires, DSC off, floors it, breaks the rear loose, which is not uncommon when the tires are cold and you're launching from the grid, starts sliding and hands do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. He needs instruction.

There are lots of videos of people doing that on the street with similar to worse results. Worse being they slam into other innocent vehicles.

I drive a pickup regularly and have had the back end break loose on more than on occasion on a snowy uphill straight section. It gets one's attention.

We did the BMW driver course which had one session on a wet slide course which was really good on practicing control.

But to answer the OP question: Can anyone be this clueless on a track? Yes, there are lots of clueless people out there not just on the track. The goal is not to be one of them, while trying to avoid them.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

What do you mean by trailing throttle? Porsche's tend to bite if you lift, keep your foot in or hold and they tend to stay planted.

This was true of a 914 "keep your foot in". Modern Porsche's have so much more power that if you're too aggressive with the throttle they WILL rotate, oftentimes too hard. You have to "hold" where you are.

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Clearly working the tires so it sounds like just a bit too much throttle and not enough release on the steering wheel. That curb may have unsettled the car too. Sh*t can happen out of no where and unfortunately the wall is right there. Can happen to the best of us.

I can say that, if you are lucky, and this is the most clueless person you see on the track, you have been very very lucky.

I've seen much worse. And many pro drivers have crashed JUST like this. Randy Pobst once took a GT-R on a "I believe I can fly" incident because he forgot which turn he was in. It DOES happen to the best of us. If it doesn't, then you aren't driving the car 10/10ths. If you do, I promise you this will happen to you someday (I don't, I'm mostly at 8/10ths because I have eaten armco for dinner before).

Shawn