[hspark89]

Ever since its reveal, we've heard enough complaints about hybridization and the accompanying weight addition to our beloved M5.

I do understand why there are so much the dismissal and hatred towards the new direction that BMW has taken for their flagship super sedan.

But I have great expectations for the new M5 for the following reasons:

1) I own a Porsche 992 C4 and now I need a proper 4-seater as a newborn is coming to my family soon. I have tried out the new Panamera 4, and did not think that it had enough power, which led me to consider the e-Hybrid models. Having studied them, I realized that PHEV's may be really good for me as I could drive electric in city and petrol on the highway. But the new Turbo e-Hybrid (Porsche's V8 PHEV) is way too overpriced for my liking. (Honestly, I would rather get a 992 Turbo S for that money.)

From this perspective, the M5 is a perfect choice for me (at least from the paper). It arguably drives as fast and nice as the Panamera Turbo e-Hybrid, and it is actually more spacious in the rear seats. Also, when compared to Panamera Turbo e-Hybrid, the weight of the new M5 isn't that bothering to me. The increased weight may hamper its ability for extreme handling on tracks, but will presumably provide better ride quality and composure on long highway trips (which I think what majority of M5 buyers are buying this car for). I think BMW is giving more gaps in between M5 vs. M4/M3, positioning the latter the compact sports car, (even though M3's are already as big as older M5's). The luxury super sedan market is something they would want to also compete in with the new M5. I also actually prefer the interior of the M5, as the new Panamera's interior is more filled with black high glossy plastic materials. Some would call the interior more elegant, but I find it rather uninteresting. More importantly, the pricing is almost 60% of what I would have to pay for a fully specced Panamera Turbo e-Hybrid. Considering these factors, I think the M5 now has become pretty competent contestant to the Panamera.

2) I also believe that comparing sheer weight between ICE and PHEV's may result in different result than expected because of the much more strategic center of mass of the M5's PHEV structure. As this chassis was developed to be ICE/PHEV/EV, I feel like this PHEV structure is the ultimate form factor that they had in mind from the development stage, utilizing both the front engine room and battery slots at the bottom of the car. I believe the Panamera PHEV's batteries are in the back trunk of the cars, which isn't as ideal as having it on the floor. There are memes all over comparing the new M5 to Bentayga, Hummer, and F150. I get what they mean but the majority of weight gain that the new M5 has is concentrated in the center (e motor connected to mission) and bottom of the car (batteries). The other cars probably have much more expanded distribution of weight compared to this. It is like having a box of heavy bricks at the bottom of your shopping cart - it will handle better than it weighs.

Again, I do understand and agree with what the purists are saying about our beloved, legendary M5. I just wanted to say that for some people the M5 has suddenly been positioned as a very attractive super family sedan that does more things than it used to (maybe not better in all of areas compared to F90s)

With that being said, I do really hope that the later reviews in the fall (on-road, real driving) give us a better verdict of this car because I would love to own one.

[robfen]

It's pretty clear that extra weight is bad for handling.

It's also clear that this M5 will be lot more user friendly, having electric range for everyday use when the v8 is superfluous while still being a rocket ship
when required.

For purists it's a cardinal sin, but for many consumers it'll be a better daily driver.

I suspect it will sell well in many markets.

I'm definitely interested...

[Savoy2001]

It is an absolute waste to use this expensive car with all that power on any regular basis in ev only mode. 200 something hp ev motor to drive this heavy ass 5400 lb car. Why bother? Just buy the full 5 series ev. Much cheaper better experience way more power and just the right tool for that particular job if that’s your thing.

The ev only aspect of this car Is totally ridiculous and not what you Buy a 140k + M car for. Just ridiculous and only a justification for the purchase for some people because it happens to be there. This is neither a good ev or a good performance car for its intended purpose. It misses the mark on both and bmw knows it. Read what the M division head said about why they did this. He was like basically we had no choice. We knew the weight sucks and it’s not what we or our customers want but it was either this or pretty much no M5.

[DHDCF]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

Read what the M division head said about why they did this. He was like basically we had no choice. We knew the weight sucks and it’s not what we or our customers want but it was either this or pretty much no M5.

Well I'm glad they decided to make the car, and I am actually appreciative of the fact it is a hybrid. I know that the way I feel about it falls into the minority category, but for me, it works...or will work.

[hspark89]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

It is an absolute waste to use this expensive car with all that power on any regular basis in ev only mode. 200 something hp ev motor to drive this heavy ass 5400 lb car. Why bother? Just buy the full 5 series ev. Much cheaper better experience way more power and just the right tool for that particular job if that’s your thing.

The ev only aspect of this car Is totally ridiculous and not what you Buy a 140k + M car for. Just ridiculous and only a justification for the purchase for some people because it happens to be there. This is neither a good ev or a good performance car for its intended purpose. It misses the mark on both and bmw knows it. Read what the M division head said about why they did this. He was like basically we had no choice. We knew the weight sucks and it’s not what we or our customers want but it was either this or pretty much no M5.

In a heavy traffic city like the one I live in, PHEV like the new M5 or Panamera Turbo e-hybrid make total sense as constant stopping and accelerating at low speed (0-60km/h range) with a traditional v8 can be jerky and tiring. You are correct it would be total waste of money and power to drive those heavy vehicle with ev mode only when it only has 200hp but in that speed range of commuting in the city that would be good enough. For the most part, it would be driven in the hybrid mode with 720hp: it would be just very useful to be able to drive ev only mode when necessary.

I feel like Panamera turbo e-hybrid shouldnt exist either based on your logic. Maybe this M5 could be named 5 series turbo e-hybrid if it were to put in Porsche's jargon.

[RPiM5]

The new 2025 Porsche Panamera E-Hybrid (the one that just broke the record for the fastest 4-door car around the Ring, even now beating the Plaid) comes in at a whopping $228,000 USD! That’s $100,000 more for a car that makes 44hp more than the G90 M5.

The G90 M5 is a bargain compared to its direct competitors!

People who get the new G90 will appreciate its ability to shut off its engine and coast around congested city streets or bumper to bumper traffic without using a drop of gasoline.

People are kidding themselves these days. There are more people on planet earth than there has ever been in human history. This means more people living in cities and more cars on the road in general. The weight of the vehicle no longer matters when you are restricted to 35mph in city traffic or 20mph on congested city freeways. How many people have tracked an M5 on a regular basis besides say the Ring Taxi at the Ring? The M3 is much better suited for track duty. The G90 M5 is rightly situated for this moment in automotive history.

Despite what many people may think, even after a lot of job shifts during COVID and people moving out of the city and teleworking or working from home, the majority of the high paying jobs in the USA are still in the major cities, therefore if you want to be able to afford a car like a G90 M5, your job will probably be in a major city where you will to drive to an office. And then driving said M5 because of your high paying job in the city means you are more than likely stuck in traffic a lot.

Having an M5 that has 727hp but you can’t drive faster than 20mph because of traffic is useless. A 200hp electric motor is now therefore useful. The use case for a PHEV is viable because of the world that we live in now.

For mountain driving and country road driving, the G90 will still shine because the chassis engineering and suspension is still a leap forward from the F90. Yes if it weren’t for the 882lbs battery back, it would be better, but it will still handle great and be a fun weekend car.

In the end, you still get a 727hp car for about half the price of the competitors and most people will just lease it because they’re current leases are about to expire anyways.

I for one can’t wait to drive one, as I myself live a large city where the traffic is very bad all the time. I’m looking forward to utilizing full electric mode while driving in traffic, and then at the touch of a button, overtaking that Tesla that thought they could over take everyone else. Lol!

[Greer]

Originally Posted by hspark89

Ever since its reveal, we've heard enough complaints about hybridization and the accompanying weight addition to our beloved M5.

I do understand why there are so much the dismissal and hatred towards the new direction that BMW has taken for their flagship super sedan.

But I have great expectations for the new M5 for the following reasons:

1) I own a Porsche 992 C4 and now I need a proper 4-seater as a newborn is coming to my family soon. I have tried out the new Panamera 4, and did not think that it had enough power, which led me to consider the e-Hybrid models. Having studied them, I realized that PHEV's may be really good for me as I could drive electric in city and petrol on the highway. But the new Turbo e-Hybrid (Porsche's V8 PHEV) is way too overpriced for my liking. (Honestly, I would rather get a 992 Turbo S for that money.)

From this perspective, the M5 is a perfect choice for me (at least from the paper). It arguably drives as fast and nice as the Panamera Turbo e-Hybrid, and it is actually more spacious in the rear seats. Also, when compared to Panamera Turbo e-Hybrid, the weight of the new M5 isn't that bothering to me. The increased weight may hamper its ability for extreme handling on tracks, but will presumably provide better ride quality and composure on long highway trips (which I think what majority of M5 buyers are buying this car for). I think BMW is giving more gaps in between M5 vs. M4/M3, positioning the latter the compact sports car, (even though M3's are already as big as older M5's). The luxury super sedan market is something they would want to also compete in with the new M5. I also actually prefer the interior of the M5, as the new Panamera's interior is more filled with black high glossy plastic materials. Some would call the interior more elegant, but I find it rather uninteresting. More importantly, the pricing is almost 60% of what I would have to pay for a fully specced Panamera Turbo e-Hybrid. Considering these factors, I think the M5 now has become pretty competent contestant to the Panamera.

2) I also believe that comparing sheer weight between ICE and PHEV's may result in different result than expected because of the much more strategic center of mass of the M5's PHEV structure. As this chassis was developed to be ICE/PHEV/EV, I feel like this PHEV structure is the ultimate form factor that they had in mind from the development stage, utilizing both the front engine room and battery slots at the bottom of the car. I believe the Panamera PHEV's batteries are in the back trunk of the cars, which isn't as ideal as having it on the floor. There are memes all over comparing the new M5 to Bentayga, Hummer, and F150. I get what they mean but the majority of weight gain that the new M5 has is concentrated in the center (e motor connected to mission) and bottom of the car (batteries). The other cars probably have much more expanded distribution of weight compared to this. It is like having a box of heavy bricks at the bottom of your shopping cart - it will handle better than it weighs.

Again, I do understand and agree with what the purists are saying about our beloved, legendary M5. I just wanted to say that for some people the M5 has suddenly been positioned as a very attractive super family sedan that does more things than it used to (maybe not better in all of areas compared to F90s)

With that being said, I do really hope that the later reviews in the fall (on-road, real driving) give us a better verdict of this car because I would love to own one.

This is only your second post on Bimmepost.com and I am very impressed. Your reasoning is very well thought out. I look forward to seeing your future posts.

[hspark89]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

The new 2025 Porsche Panamera E-Hybrid (the one that just broke the record for the fastest 4-door car around the Ring, even now beating the Plaid) comes in at a whopping $228,000 USD! That’s $100,000 more for a car that makes 44hp more than the G90 M5.

The G90 M5 is a bargain compared to its direct competitors!

People who get the new G90 will appreciate its ability to shut off its engine and coast around congested city streets or bumper to bumper traffic without using a drop of gasoline.

People are kidding themselves these days. There are more people on planet earth than there has ever been in human history. This means more people living in cities and more cars on the road in general. The weight of the vehicle no longer matters when you are restricted to 35mph in city traffic or 20mph on congested city freeways. How many people have tracked an M5 on a regular basis besides say the Ring Taxi at the Ring? The M3 is much better suited for track duty. The G90 M5 is rightly situated for this moment in automotive history.

Despite what many people may think, even after a lot of job shifts during COVID and people moving out of the city and teleworking or working from home, the majority of the high paying jobs in the USA are still in the major cities, therefore if you want to be able to afford a car like a G90 M5, your job will probably be in a major city where you will to drive to an office. And then driving said M5 because of your high paying job in the city means you are more than likely stuck in traffic a lot.

Having an M5 that has 727hp but you can’t drive faster than 20mph because of traffic is useless. A 200hp electric motor is now therefore useful. The use case for a PHEV is viable because of the world that we live in now.

For mountain driving and country road driving, the G90 will still shine because the chassis engineering and suspension is still a leap forward from the F90. Yes if it weren’t for the 882lbs battery back, it would be better, but it will still handle great and be a fun weekend car.

In the end, you still get a 727hp car for about half the price of the competitors and most people will just lease it because they’re current leases are about to expire anyways.

I for one can’t wait to drive one, as I myself live a large city where the traffic is very bad all the time. I’m looking forward to utilizing full electric mode while driving in traffic, and then at the touch of a button, overtaking that Tesla that thought they could over take everyone else. Lol!

Couldn't have put it better myself. I fully agree with you and this is exactly why I am placing an order as soon as I can. It will be beast of a do-everything modern sedan.

And the design is growing more and more on me as a wide stance, beefy and aggressive vehicle. I may be biased as I loved the new G90 5 series design from the very beginning.

[Greer]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

The new 2025 Porsche Panamera E-Hybrid (the one that just broke the record for the fastest 4-door car around the Ring, even now beating the Plaid) comes in at a whopping $228,000 USD! That’s $100,000 more for a car that makes 44hp more than the G90 M5.

The G90 M5 is a bargain compared to its direct competitors!

People who get the new G90 will appreciate its ability to shut off its engine and coast around congested city streets or bumper to bumper traffic without using a drop of gasoline.

People are kidding themselves these days. There are more people on planet earth than there has ever been in human history. This means more people living in cities and more cars on the road in general. The weight of the vehicle no longer matters when you are restricted to 35mph in city traffic or 20mph on congested city freeways. How many people have tracked an M5 on a regular basis besides say the Ring Taxi at the Ring? The M3 is much better suited for track duty. The G90 M5 is rightly situated for this moment in automotive history.

Despite what many people may think, even after a lot of job shifts during COVID and people moving out of the city and teleworking or working from home, the majority of the high paying jobs in the USA are still in the major cities, therefore if you want to be able to afford a car like a G90 M5, your job will probably be in a major city where you will to drive to an office. And then driving said M5 because of your high paying job in the city means you are more than likely stuck in traffic a lot.

Having an M5 that has 727hp but you can’t drive faster than 20mph because of traffic is useless. A 200hp electric motor is now therefore useful. The use case for a PHEV is viable because of the world that we live in now.

For mountain driving and country road driving, the G90 will still shine because the chassis engineering and suspension is still a leap forward from the F90. Yes if it weren’t for the 882lbs battery back, it would be better, but it will still handle great and be a fun weekend car.

In the end, you still get a 727hp car for about half the price of the competitors and most people will just lease it because they’re current leases are about to expire anyways.

I for one can’t wait to drive one, as I myself live a large city where the traffic is very bad all the time. I’m looking forward to utilizing full electric mode while driving in traffic, and then at the touch of a button, overtaking that Tesla that thought they could over take everyone else. Lol!

Yes, this is what BMW was thinking when they released this car. If you do get the G90, I would lease only.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

How many people have tracked an M5 on a regular basis besides say the Ring Taxi at the Ring? The M3 is much better suited for track duty.

A few of us.

The availability of a track capable AWD BMW in 2018 made a huge difference in the track environment. Also a car that can carry a full set of track tires in the back and a full set of gear and another person is few and far between.

Ideal? Nah. Fast and fun as hell? Yes.

But this new one won't be good for this. At all. But neither are electrics.

But I don't care. My dealer will order me a G99 when the order banks open. And I'll be happy with it. Every day. To and from work.

Shawn

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by hspark89

Ever since its reveal, we've heard enough complaints about hybridization and the accompanying weight addition to our beloved M5.

I do understand why there are so much the dismissal and hatred towards the new direction that BMW has taken for their flagship super sedan.

But I have great expectations for the new M5 for the following reasons:

1) I own a Porsche 992 C4 and now I need a proper 4-seater as a newborn is coming to my family soon. I have tried out the new Panamera 4, and did not think that it had enough power, which led me to consider the e-Hybrid models. Having studied them, I realized that PHEV's may be really good for me as I could drive electric in city and petrol on the highway. But the new Turbo e-Hybrid (Porsche's V8 PHEV) is way too overpriced for my liking. (Honestly, I would rather get a 992 Turbo S for that money.)

From this perspective, the M5 is a perfect choice for me (at least from the paper). It arguably drives as fast and nice as the Panamera Turbo e-Hybrid, and it is actually more spacious in the rear seats. Also, when compared to Panamera Turbo e-Hybrid, the weight of the new M5 isn't that bothering to me. The increased weight may hamper its ability for extreme handling on tracks, but will presumably provide better ride quality and composure on long highway trips (which I think what majority of M5 buyers are buying this car for). I think BMW is giving more gaps in between M5 vs. M4/M3, positioning the latter the compact sports car, (even though M3's are already as big as older M5's). The luxury super sedan market is something they would want to also compete in with the new M5. I also actually prefer the interior of the M5, as the new Panamera's interior is more filled with black high glossy plastic materials. Some would call the interior more elegant, but I find it rather uninteresting. More importantly, the pricing is almost 60% of what I would have to pay for a fully specced Panamera Turbo e-Hybrid. Considering these factors, I think the M5 now has become pretty competent contestant to the Panamera.

2) I also believe that comparing sheer weight between ICE and PHEV's may result in different result than expected because of the much more strategic center of mass of the M5's PHEV structure. As this chassis was developed to be ICE/PHEV/EV, I feel like this PHEV structure is the ultimate form factor that they had in mind from the development stage, utilizing both the front engine room and battery slots at the bottom of the car. I believe the Panamera PHEV's batteries are in the back trunk of the cars, which isn't as ideal as having it on the floor. There are memes all over comparing the new M5 to Bentayga, Hummer, and F150. I get what they mean but the majority of weight gain that the new M5 has is concentrated in the center (e motor connected to mission) and bottom of the car (batteries). The other cars probably have much more expanded distribution of weight compared to this. It is like having a box of heavy bricks at the bottom of your shopping cart - it will handle better than it weighs.

Again, I do understand and agree with what the purists are saying about our beloved, legendary M5. I just wanted to say that for some people the M5 has suddenly been positioned as a very attractive super family sedan that does more things than it used to (maybe not better in all of areas compared to F90s)

With that being said, I do really hope that the later reviews in the fall (on-road, real driving) give us a better verdict of this car because I would love to own one.

It will benefit a bit from the battery placement I suppose, but on the negative side, the chassis is also taller than normal and it is just so heavy.

I imagine the handling will be good in terms of appetite for the apex, body control in transitional maneuvers, etc., and perhaps they will manage to make it feel somewhat light on its feet via careful selection of damping and spring rates and lightweight metals in the suspension structure itself, but it is hampered via its height and weight in a way that can only be disguised to a certain point.

I do want to like it. It looks great in yellow. But, it's moving too far in the direction of products like the XM, which of course is an utter abomination--far worse than even the normal "M" SUVs.

[F30Andy]

I don't like the look of the G90 (yet.) I have a feeling that just like the E60 it will grow on me over time.

The on paper stats don't really speak to me.

The weight certainly is an eyebrow raiser.

Do I want the G90 at this moment in time?
No. No I don't. I would rather stick to the F90.

Will I get a G90 within six months to a year of release.
Yes, Yes I will.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by F30Andy

I don't like the look of the G90 (yet.) I have a feeling that just like the E60 it will grow on me over time.

The on paper stats don't really speak to me.

The weight certainly is an eyebrow raiser.

Do I want the G90 at this moment in time?
No. No I don't. I would rather stick to the F90.

Will I get a G90 within six months to a year of release.
Yes, Yes I will.

Sounds exactly like the sentiments I have voiced on here myself. A lot of us don’t like it now, but will probably end up with one regardless.

[Greer]

Originally Posted by ResIpsaLoquitur

A lot of us probably end up with one regardless.

Yes, I will wait for the "Lable Red" version, then pounce.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Greer

Yes, I will wait for the "Lable Red" version, then pounce.

Good point my friend. I am starting to think that I will do the same. Maybe even wait for LCI on this one. I’m still excited for the car to hit the streets though.

[Ex_Stig]

This is the least hyped I’ve been for an M5 since the E60. (Sorry, not trying to start a debate. I just didn’t like the Bangle styling)

I’m hoping I come around once the cars get reviewed in the magazines. I’m just a bit disappointed that I don’t like it more.

[GiantRobot]

Originally Posted by Ex_Stig

This is the least hyped I’ve been for an M5 since the E60. (Sorry, not trying to start a debate. I just didn’t like the Bangle styling)

I’m hoping I come around once the cars get reviewed in the magazines. I’m just a bit disappointed that I don’t like it more.

I'm right there with you. I'm still holding out hope. BMW is getting roasted on social media regarding the car's weight. The memes are hilarious.