[soulsea]

Originally Posted by hemi to e90

But if you want to see Porsche doing hybrid WRONG, look at the shocking weights of v8 / phev combination in the cayenne turbo and Panamera turbo. And for that matter the Bentley / Lamborghini. Im sure if you had an honest interview like you did with the BMW M boss, they'd echo his points.

Agreed but the difference there is that neither the Cayenne or Panamera PHEVs are implemented in a Porsche iconic and halo performance model. A also think that better than ‘the best they could do’ has already been done in the AMG 63S E which like I said gets more power out of a smaller displacement V8.

In the end, a battery at least half the size and weight of the one they put in the M5 coded to have modes/settings to be full electric, hybrid, performance, and then a ‘race’ or whatever you want to call it mode where the driver can select to dump all the juice into performance would have made the car lighter and more powerful on demand … basically have the smallest battery possible for performance reasons and a couple of dozen miles of range as a byproduct that you can market as eco-friendly for those who care about that.

I dunno, maybe I’m projecting but M5s have always been ‘driver’s’ cars to me and to most other people who have loved them. If I wanted a fast electric sedan to commute I’d get a faster and lighter S Plaid for less money, in fact that’s my current dd. If I want to give up some speed and have an engaging V8 driving experience in a sedan that also sounds way better I’d get a CT5V BW manual which was a previous dd of mine. The new M5 is neither of those things.

I’m not sure who in the marketing dept decided that the M5 demographic prioritizes going super slow in electric mode for 40 or so miles but they should never be allowed in the building again, or at the very least escorted back to the X5 xDrive50e basement never to be allowed out again … it’s the wrong adaptation of this technology for a car like the M5.

As a potential customer hearing that this is the best they can do when others have already done better is both frustrating and a little sad.

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by soulsea

Agreed but the difference there is that neither the Cayenne or Panamera PHEVs are implemented in a Porsche iconic and halo performance model. A also think that better than ‘the best they could do’ has already been done in the AMG 63S E which like I said gets more power out of a smaller displacement V8.

In the end, a battery at least half the size and weight of the one they put in the M5 coded to have modes/settings to be full electric, hybrid, performance, and then a ‘race’ or whatever you want to call it mode where the driver can select to dump all the juice into performance would have made the car lighter and more powerful on demand … basically have the smallest battery possible for performance reasons and a couple of dozen miles of range as a byproduct that you can market as eco-friendly for those who care about that.

I dunno, maybe I’m projecting but M5s have always been ‘driver’s’ cars to me and to most other people who have loved them. If I wanted a fast electric sedan to commute I’d get a faster and lighter S Plaid for less money, in fact that’s my current dd. If I want to give up some speed and have an engaging V8 driving experience in a sedan that also sounds way better I’d get a CT5V BW manual which was a previous dd of mine. The new M5 is neither of those things.

I’m not sure who in the marketing dept decided that the M5 demographic prioritizes going super slow in electric mode for 40 or so miles but they should never be allowed in the building again, or at the very least escorted back to the X5 xDrive50e basement never to be allowed out again … it’s the wrong adaptation of this technology for a car like the M5.

As a potential customer hearing that this is the best they can do when others have already done better is both frustrating and a little sad.

This is exactly the point here. This guy gets it. This is the problem I have with what they did here with this car. There are other ways to achieve a better goal/ product for what this car should be. Their best they could do is bs. I suspect they penned this car long time ago. Green lighted the project years ago and just sort of went with it. Mostly I think because they never this stupid powertrain from the xm they need to keep reusing to get their r/d money back and because it’s most cost effective at this point. They didn’t use this because it was the best possible power train for this car or because it was the best they could do. It was the best they could do because they were forced into using this. That’s what he should have said and definitely can’t say.

[hemi to e90]

Originally Posted by soulsea

Agreed but the difference there is that neither the Cayenne or Panamera PHEVs are implemented in a Porsche iconic and halo performance model. A also think that better than ‘the best they could do’ has already been done in the AMG 63S E which like I said gets more power out of a smaller displacement V8.

In the end, a battery at least half the size and weight of the one they put in the M5 coded to have modes/settings to be full electric, hybrid, performance, and then a ‘race’ or whatever you want to call it mode where the driver can select to dump all the juice into performance would have made the car lighter and more powerful on demand … basically have the smallest battery possible for performance reasons and a couple of dozen miles of range as a byproduct that you can market as eco-friendly for those who care about that.

I dunno, maybe I’m projecting but M5s have always been ‘driver’s’ cars to me and to most other people who have loved them. If I wanted a fast electric sedan to commute I’d get a faster and lighter S Plaid for less money, in fact that’s my current dd. If I want to give up some speed and have an engaging V8 driving experience in a sedan that also sounds way better I’d get a CT5V BW manual which was a previous dd of mine. The new M5 is neither of those things.

I’m not sure who in the marketing dept decided that the M5 demographic prioritizes going super slow in electric mode for 40 or so miles but they should never be allowed in the building again, or at the very least escorted back to the X5 xDrive50e basement never to be allowed out again … it’s the wrong adaptation of this technology for a car like the M5.

As a potential customer hearing that this is the best they can do when others have already done better is both frustrating and a little sad.

love the CT5V BW, but theres a tainted brand imagine that would prevent a ton of buyers from considering (my GF calls Cadillac and uber black interchangeably for example)

I think the EV range/battery conversation is that they had the perfect usage case and just tried to translate it to another model. My family in Europe ADORES their 750e, in the European cycle its the perfect middle ground.

and again, all of these companies are trying to balance between EV, PHEV, and BEV, so why spend the R&D on another system? and we (Americans) forget that this system as already designed in (there is a 550e using the same x5 50e and 750e system).

this is how they kept the cost down.

re; Porsche, I agree that the 911 is the flagship for the enthusiast, but for 718 is ev now, and the fastest cayenne they can get in Europe is the hybrid, and the Panamera is in the same situation.

we (Americans) are forgetting that adaption rates are different in Europe not just for cost, but the cultural aspect. ICE vehicles are being demonized heavily

anyway, im holding off opinion till I drive one, and I got an order in on a G90, and im kinda excited for it

PS side bar, my business partner has the S63e and its the worst new / performance car ive ever driven

[hufington]

Originally Posted by hemi to e90

PS side bar, my business partner has the S63e and its the worst new / performance car ive ever driven

After driving one, I canceled my S63 order and bought an S580 instead. S63 is heavy, complicated, and no fun.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

Ok stop right there. Rent a vehicle for a road trip? Let me get this right. People should buy a 140-150k car and then rent a different car for a road trip because EV's are terrible road trip cars? I get it completely that EV's on a long trip are a hassle and is one of the many reasons I don't want one, but to advocate for a renting a car as the solution? lol ok

People shifting back to ICE from EV's is a real thing. There a good chunk of people that when asked if they would get another ev who have said no. Look it up. You can be a data point against my assertion all you want. Doesn't change anything. Notice I never said all EV owners did i?

"They may be true. But what’s also true is ev uptake across the board is slowing. Especially in America. We don’t want em and don’t care for half baked tech with a very shitty charging infrastructure."

Isn't this what you said? Seems like you are trying to speak for every person in the US right there.

Plenty of people rent vehicles for long road trips, who don't own EVs, simply to keep miles, and the wear and tear off their personal vehicles. So yeah, if you can afford a $140k EV (which I can and do) you can afford to have a second vehicle for road trips (a '24 Cayenne S E Hybrid in my case) or rent a vehicle. Honestly, working around charging isn't that big of a deal at all, and most people figure that out pretty quick once they own an EV. Again, a reminder that you are saying these things on an M5 forum, the PHEV M5 forum, and the sedan starts at $120,000. A PHEV has zero issues on a road trip, and if you can afford a six figure vehicle, you better be able to afford to rent a car for a few weeks.

[ledphut]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

Ok stop right there. Rent a vehicle for a road trip? Let me get this right. People should buy a 140-150k car and then rent a different car for a road trip because EV's are terrible road trip cars? I get it completely that EV's on a long trip are a hassle and is one of the many reasons I don't want one, but to advocate for a renting a car as the solution? lol ok

People shifting back to ICE from EV's is a real thing. There a good chunk of people that when asked if they would get another ev who have said no. Look it up. You can be a data point against my assertion all you want. Doesn't change anything. Notice I never said all EV owners did i?

US charging infrastructure is nowhere near ready for prime time. All other points are moot. Last winter during a cold snap here in Chicago people were having to abandon their Teslas while waiting in line for 8 hours to charge. This foray into EVs has been an abject failure.

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

"They may be true. But what’s also true is ev uptake across the board is slowing. Especially in America. We don’t want em and don’t care for half baked tech with a very shitty charging infrastructure."

Isn't this what you said? Seems like you are trying to speak for every person in the US right there.

Plenty of people rent vehicles for long road trips, who don't own EVs, simply to keep miles, and the wear and tear off their personal vehicles. So yeah, if you can afford a $140k EV (which I can and do) you can afford to have a second vehicle for road trips (a '24 Cayenne S E Hybrid in my case) or rent a vehicle. Honestly, working around charging isn't that big of a deal at all, and most people figure that out pretty quick once they own an EV. Again, a reminder that you are saying these things on an M5 forum, the PHEV M5 forum, and the sedan starts at $120,000. A PHEV has zero issues on a road trip, and if you can afford a six figure vehicle, you better be able to afford to rent a car for a few weeks.

I am speaking for most people you are absolutely correct. I stand by my assertion. Most people can't be bothered with this EV nonsense.

I didn't say a hybrid is a hassle on a road trip. I said EV. EV's are a hassle on a road trip. I do not want to plan my trip around chargers, period.

As for renting a car for a trip. Sure some people do it but that is definitely the minority. Only time most people rent a car is when they are away from home. That's the majority of rentals.

[Rossocorsa]

Originally Posted by ledphut

US charging infrastructure is nowhere near ready for prime time. All other points are moot. Last winter during a cold snap here in Chicago people were having to abandon their Teslas while waiting in line for 8 hours to charge. This foray into EVs has been an abject failure.

Yup, EV is atrocious. Even in Cali, a supposed green paradise, my friend’s EV roadtrips are stories of energy pinching and turning AC off to make their destination. Lol!

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by Rossocorsa

Yup, EV is atrocious. Even in Cali, a supposed green paradise, my friend’s EV roadtrips are stories of energy pinching and turning AC off to make their destination. Lol!

California is the biggest joke of a state honestly. Buy ev’s but don’t charger em! Not enough power. Let’s turn off a ton of our coal power plants because bad bad for environment but then not enough power to go around so we ration it and then the best part! We buy it from other states and Mexico lol lol. They are the biggest bunch of jokers running that state in the country.

Greenies say. Turn off all the coal plants very very bad for the planet. China says F you. We have a country to run. They open a new plant every month lol lol lol. The irony. We’re ask sharing the same air on the same planet and the shit travels around the globe. 😂 So we’re hurting our selves here while China and India do give two F’s and continue to do ad they do. Thats the green bs agenda here in this country. Bunch of morons.

Don’t even get me started on the charging infrastructure that’s a complete disaster. Just wait until even just 20% of the driving public had these stupid ev’s. You’ll pull up to a charger with three people waiting in front of you. Do the math. With a minimum of 20/30 minutes a charger. Enjoy the wait. Just remember to turn off your ac in the car while you wait in line like a good boy. I mean you don’t want to run out of juice on the line to charge the pos. 😂

[subterFUSE]

China brings a new coal powerplant online every 10 days, actually. So it's 3 per month.

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

China brings a new coal powerplant online every 10 days, actually. So it's 3 per month.

Ya I thought that was the case from a few years ago but was un sure if still the case. So I figured 1 per month was a safe bet.

[Rossocorsa]

For the low low price of $50T we promise we’ll fix everything 🤣🤣🤣