[M5ddox]

Originally Posted by Moewron

just keep using the word "argument" as a verb, and you'll make them angry enough as it is.

Lmfao


*Ammo to argue with.

[Raudiace4]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Wait until you see the next gen E63 and RS7... all will be heavyweight

Means nothing to me.

I’ll keep my W213 till I die.

[787B]

Originally Posted by masd79

Corners? Everyday for me. Anyone who doesnÂ’t expect thier M to do that safely, should buy a Cadillac.

I think that's the problem here, the G90 isn't really an M5 in the sense that an M5 used to be; and there isn't a successor to the F90 M5

[masd79]

Originally Posted by 787B

I think that's the problem here, the G90 isn't really an M5 in the sense that an M5 used to be; and there isn't a successor to the F90 M5

Most reviews suggest it is very much an m5.. but we suspect paid actors. Time will tell…

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by masd79

Most reviews suggest it is very much an m5.. but we suspect paid actors. Time will tell…

thomas from autogefuhl just did a full review on youtube...

he is somewhay of a purist but also very pro ev so kept it real...

he said if you are a purist looking for an m car experience this isnt it... however if you want a great dd thats as fast as a missile w the benefits on an ev... this is for u... he also was strict to point out both size and weight can be felt

[hb]

Originally Posted by masd79

Most reviews suggest it is very much an m5.. but we suspect paid actors. Time will tell…

That's probably the biggest misconception when it comes to reviews. I can tell you this: The initial batch of reviews took place during the International Media Launch where all the BMW markets in the world send their most important media, or at least in most cases. But no one gets paid to go there. I can speak at least for the US and German groups. There is zero money exchanged and honestly, most media or Youtubers wouldn't take the money anyway.

Of course, we do get our flight paid and hotel, and meals and all of that, but that's a practice across many industries, otherwise, very few people would fly across the world for a day event.

Some "new" media might hesitate to share their true opinions about a car, possibly out of fear of being excluded from future events. While it’s unclear whether they actually hold back, to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever been banned for publishing a negative review.

I've said this before: every review has a slight bias which mostly comes from our personalities. We all like different things and when it comes to new cars, we all value different things these days. I see a lot of media today focusing on tech rather than driving, so that's one bias right there.

[Rafichicago]

To all defending new M5 because they got/planning to get one. Explain the use case in which 2,5 ton M5 is better from the one that weigh 1.9. Track use aside since 99% doesn’t do that so that’s irrelevant. Especially those climate conscious V8 buyers. You understand that new car needs extra half a ton of materials made, developed, created, transported, to create this thing.

[Ossian]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

To all defending new M5 because they got/planning to get one. Explain the use case in which 2,5 ton M5 is better from the one that weigh 1.9. Track use aside since 99% doesn’t do that so that’s irrelevant. Especially those climate conscious V8 buyers. You understand that new car needs extra half a ton of materials made, developed, created, transported, to create this thing.

I won't say it is objectively "better", but much depends on your daily driving habits. As an example, we have an X5 50e with a similar-in-concept PHEV drive train to the M5 (though obviously with a B58 6 cylinder as the ICE). My wife rarely uses any gas, since the pure EV range and top speed are completely sufficient for her daily driving. Most of our daily drives are 5-20 miles in congested urban traffic, and the PHEV is absolutely great for that. When taking road trips, however, there is no range anxiety, unlike I have in my I5 M60 with its meager BEV range. We have a level 2 charger at home, as well as rooftop solar, so the operating costs are much lower than they were when we had 2 pure ICE cars drinking premium unleaded. For me, from a practical standpoint, I like the flexibility of PHEV's, and from an environmental standpoint, keeping a twin turbo V8 shut down in crowded, polluted, central city environments is a good thing -- though I love the idea that it is available when I want it. Electrification in urban environments means less particulate pollution/smog, and that is good for everyone.

If I was still doing long highway drives for work, the electrification wouldn't be attractive to me, but for quick hit urban driving, I love it (which is why I decided to experiment with the I5 this time around, since the G90 wasn't yet available when I needed it). The weight penalty is real, though, and as much chassis and computer magic as they do to hide it, I am fully aware that these cars with their low, heavy batteries, will never match the driving dynamics of the older, lighter models.

That said, I still plan on buying one, because it seems to remain a decently dynamic car, it is a highway missile, etc -- in short, it checks most of the boxes that I want in a true "executive saloon", even if it loses the magic of the old car on canyon roads. I will solve that by buying a Miata for weekend use/tracking, but the G90 looks like it will be an ideal DD for my particular circumstances -- though I 100% get that this is definitely not the case for everyone, and I understand the unhappiness of the purists out there.

[FVierzig]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

To all defending new M5 because they got/planning to get one. Explain the use case in which 2,5 ton M5 is better from the one that weigh 1.9. Track use aside since 99% doesn’t do that so that’s irrelevant. Especially those climate conscious V8 buyers. You understand that new car needs extra half a ton of materials made, developed, created, transported, to create this thing.

Ordered an G99. Not really defending it, everyone has their own opinion, but the previous gen F90(LCI) was just not the right use case for me. I drive too short distances to get fun out of it, since the engine never gets to operating temp and 15-20L/100km is just a waste of money when the gas prices were 2,50+ a litre(10$+/gal). Bought an I4M50, wasn't my cup of tea (range anxiety etc.), now own a 545e which is just a great car. I must say after placing the order about a month ago I have been second guessing my decision as the 545e is just that good, but I do miss that little bit of M sauce in my daily(precise steering and ofcourse the power).
So overall my costs will go down significantly (compared to the F90's) and I will still have the same amount of fun.

Sidenote I will track it once or twice at Zandvoort/Nordschleife, just to see how it fairs against the M5 and M5C since they were absolute animals (only downside was the tyres getting hot after about 5-6 laps (or one lap at the nords ).

[Rafichicago]

Bottom line to me is that this car is not as great as it could’ve been if not for ridiculous regulations ruining that industry under the disguise of saving the planet. In the process inferior product have been created using more of them than necessary resulting in worse user experience what’s more it is accepted by the consumer. There are more opinions like that it’s ok instead of it’s fantastic I can’t wait to get one. At this price point I want it to be as great as physically possible Too many compromises have been made here. At the same time nobody forces me to buy it. Market will decide. I don’t like the product but best wishes to those that will buy it.

[Alan l.]

The new M5 weighs what it weighs because of the electric motor/battery. It’s not just because BMW decided to use lead to make the car heavier for no reason. You simply can’t have a hybrid TTV8 weighing sub 5Klbs with the current technology.

This car is perfect for me because I want to enjoy the fun of a TTV8 on longer spirited drives but want to have the benefits of a EV for local trips driving 2-3 miles in the morning to my kids school, soccer practice and also not annoy the crap out of my neighbors when I have to leave my house at 6am with a loud ass cold start.

Once I’m doing any other driving that’s when I want the full M experience and I love how this car offers this option.

Let’s face it. Reality is most people that buys an M5 has a family and uses it more for hauling people around than taking it to the track. While I like what the F90 offers it’s just not as good (to me) as my X5MC as a overall do it all type vehicle. The EV capability of the M5 Touring now one ups my X5M.

My X5M is heavy too but not once when I’m driving it I thought hmmmm wish this thing was lighter and the M5 will be no different.

Alan

[thaalrasha]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Bottom line to me is that this car is not as great as it could’ve been if not for ridiculous regulations ruining that industry under the disguise of saving the planet. In the process inferior product have been created using more of them than necessary resulting in worse user experience what’s more it is accepted by the consumer. There are more opinions like that it’s ok instead of it’s fantastic I can’t wait to get one. At this price point I want it to be as great as physically possible Too many compromises have been made here. At the same time nobody forces me to buy it. Market will decide. I don’t like the product but best wishes to those that will buy it.

You're right on point, without the stupid regulations we'd have a lighter and more capable car, weight is the enemy in car handling no matter how disguised... We enter an era of damage control for car enthusiast unfortunately and that's one proposed solution instead of putting a 4cylinder or not making anything at all (like AMG, there is no E63 anymore).

On the filp side for the countries that look at Co2 emissions for price penalties, the G90 is 40% cheaper than an F90... and much cheaper than G80 and around the same as G87. Now for the same money would you get a G87 ? very different cars indeed I had a G87 LCI on order and swaped it to th G90 and i'm far from totally convinced but for the same money you kind of have more car ... in a way .

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by thaalrasha

You're right on point, without the stupid regulations we'd have a lighter and more capable car, weight is the enemy in car handling no matter how disguised... We enter an era of damage control for car enthusiast unfortunately and that's one proposed solution instead of putting a 4cylinder or not making anything at all (like AMG, there is no E63 anymore).

On the filp side for the countries that look at Co2 emissions for price penalties, the G90 is 40% cheaper than an F90... and much cheaper than G80 and around the same as G87. Now for the same money would you get a G87 ? very different cars indeed I had a G87 LCI on order and swaped it to th G90 and i'm far from totally convinced but for the same money you kind of have more car ... in a way .

99% agree on that. Mercedes will regret its decision. Very few want new C-so called 63amg. And 4 cylinder is not solution in that case either. That thing is 2.2 tons so not exactly featherweight either. My point is that they want their customers to pay $130k+ for heavily compromised product. At that price I would want it to be fantastic instead of “not so bad” and let’s face it. So far very few think of it like that. We have more of Mercedes doesn’t even have e63 opinions. I get it. It’s better to have 50% of something rather than 100% of nothing. Because of my personal situation I’d rather add full ev to my current cars rather than replace F90 with this thing. EV will do m5’s hybrid part better and F90 will do what M5 used to be part better for me. I’ve never been interested in chasing the newest out there for the sake of it.

[subterFUSE]

I'm with you, Rafi. The car is not the best BMW could have done. It's what they were permitted to build by the German government. Big difference. And those regulations don't matter over here in the States, so we are fed a product that doesn't have as much utility.

I really want to like the M5. The F90 was the best daily driver car I have ever owned. But I just don't know that I can stomach paying more for a car that is less.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

I'm with you, Rafi. The car is not the best BMW could have done. It's what they were permitted to build by the German government. Big difference. And those regulations don't matter over here in the States, so we are fed a product that doesn't have as much utility.

I really want to like the M5. The F90 was the best daily driver car I have ever owned. But I just don't know that I can stomach paying more for a car that is less.

Exactly that many laughs at EU regulations but they impact everyone that considers purchasing product that’s made according to their standards since it would’ve cost way too much to make different products for the rest of the world. This is BMW forum and I happen to own 3 BMWs and E63 wagon with N/A 6.2 so it cannot be said that I bash the company and I don’t even own their product however some of their recent offerings are not exactly cool and even questionable. Settling with worse build quality and materials at higher price tag is not even an option for me. Those are facts. We can put lipstick on a pig but it will remain just that. Pig. It just what it is. I write this opinions because I regret that what it could’ve been fantastic piece of kit became highly compromised product made by accountants and regulators rather than engineering marvel.

[dbru]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Exactly that many laughs at EU regulations but they impact everyone that considers purchasing product that’s made according to their standards since it would’ve cost way too much to make different products for the rest of the world. This is BMW forum and I happen to own 3 BMWs and E63 wagon with N/A 6.2 so it cannot be said that I bash the company and I don’t even own their product however some of their recent offerings are not exactly cool and even questionable. Settling with worse build quality and materials at higher price tag is not even an option for me. Those are facts. We can put lipstick on a pig but it will remain just that. Pig. It just what it is. I write this opinions because I regret that what it could’ve been fantastic piece of kit became highly compromised product made by accountants and regulators rather than engineering marvel.

Actually, those aren't facts. Those are opinions.

Rather than complaining about EU regulations I have an idea. Don't buy a European car. Buy a GM or Ford. European standards aren't going to get any better whether you like it or not.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by dbru

Actually, those aren't facts. Those are opinions.

Rather than complaining about EU regulations I have an idea. Don't buy a European car. Buy a GM or Ford. European standards aren't going to get any better whether you like it or not.

Explain how manufacturer adjusting to more and more stringent EU regulations is an opinion.

[dbru]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Explain how manufacturer adjusting to more and more stringent EU regulations is an opinion.

"Settling with worse build quality and materials at higher price tag is not even an option for me. Those are facts."

Build quality is an opinion. I'm quite certain BMW would disagree with your conclusion. By use of the word settling alone makes it an opinion.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by dbru

"Settling with worse build quality and materials at higher price tag is not even an option for me. Those are facts."

Build quality is an opinion. I'm quite certain BMW would disagree with your conclusion. By use of the word settling alone makes it an opinion.

Even those who have one now and had F90 but you’d have to do some reading and put some effort to find out. BMW can claim otherwise with the mouth of their PR team. If you rather believe them than those who purchased one all the best to you.

[ctelimad]

This car is not less then the f90 but also it is not that much more
Yes much more comfortable, has more presence (weither we like it or not), little faster drag races prove that , more technology and nore modern interior and more space (rear seats have more space then f90) and yes almost the same price
No for it is not more beautiful then f90 (but again has more road presence then f90) , no handling and no for interior quality
So if you compare the pro and con and given it is the same price the g90 wins
But we as bnw enthusiasts always expect more
If you ask me i wish they made it 10k more expensice and kept the high quality interior and added more horsepower and it will be a win for a lot of people

[dbru]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Even those who have one now and had F90 but you’d have to do some reading and put some effort to find out. BMW can claim otherwise with the mouth of their PR team. If you rather believe them than those who purchased one all the best to you.

Is that even English? Can you restate that to something that's understandable? .

If you don't like the car that's ok. Most your statements are opinions and you try and come off like they are facts. Opinions are like a*&$% everyone has them and they often stink. That includes myself.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by dbru

Is that even English? Can you restate that to something that's understandable? .

If you don't like the car that's ok. Most your statements are opinions and you try and come off like they are facts. Opinions are like a*&$% everyone has them and they often stink. That includes myself.

Ha ha now that’s an inteligent answer an argument about someone’s level of English grammar. Now I understand. You either speak and read perfect English alor have no right to exist on forum🤣🤣🤣you seem to be trying really hard to be right, so be it. If you cannot comprehend simple arguments there’s little I can do to help you