[masd79]

Originally Posted by dcwjd

In 6 months these cars will be heavily discounted and they aren’t selling well at all.

I was thinking the same but what would that do to f90 prices? And then g80? I think people are thinking it will experience the Xm fate, but I don’t see that happening since m5 has a reference

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by masd79

I was thinking the same but what would that do to f90 prices? And then g80? I think people are thinking it will experience the Xm fate, but I don’t see that happening since m5 has a reference

Agree

XM was fighting day one for sales from both the X5 and X6M... same performance,interior but a 20-45k price difference for not much else beyond 35 miles of EV range. Never mind a decent spec Cayenne for 180k. The XM looks are subjective and it didn't help

Price point the m5 sits in a great place vs it's competitive set

[Brazilian_BAMF]

Originally Posted by Crazy1323

Has anyone ever tried a third party leasing company like Premier Financial Services?

I read your message and contacted them yesterday.
My offer was really bad.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by imrickjames

I'm in Chicago. Even with base MF, which I got, monthly payments worked out better with a purchase (and BMWFS refuses to budge on the $7500 PHEV credit for a lease) so that is what I did.

I agree that demand varies by region, but:

1. Chicago isn't exactly the middle of nowhere,
2. Internet sales with delivery have a way of smoothing out variances in markets, tying together ever-larger geographic swaths of the country into combined markets (I initially had to go as far as Michigan to get a G90 allocation this past spring, only to find in early November that there were magically cars available closer to home), and
3. Difficulty finding the F90 at launch within 100 miles of Chicago was probably a function of higher demand for that vehicle at launch compared to the G90. There's a reason why there are brokers out there that can still get you 2.5% off of MSRP for a G90 at this point...

Brokers can often get better deals than regular folks. 2.5% off on 120k isnt much which can't be made up via a slight MF markup or some BS add on, but it's something.

I will be curious to see sales figures in 12 months. Bmw has said there won't be a Comp but market will dictate it and people will wait, I've learned never get first model year of anything.

Also, I think the price of it also plays a factor . A G90 vs F90 lease or buy isnt what was a few years ago with the adjustment for inflation, some folks can't swallow the idea of a 2k plus car payment a month.

[Oswiff]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Brokers can often get better deals than regular folks. 2.5% off on 120k isnt much which can't be made up via a slight MF markup or some BS add on, but it's something.

I will be curious to see sales figures in 12 months. Bmw has said there won't be a Comp but market will dictate it and people will wait, I've learned never get first model year of anything.

Also, I think the price of it also plays a factor . A G90 vs F90 lease or buy isnt what was a few years ago with the adjustment for inflation, some folks can't swallow the idea of a 2k plus car payment a month.

Trusted lease broker Dan from Next Level posted in another thread today that 0-2% off MSRP is what’s out there.
There will of course be outliers as has been posted in other threads. We don’t know any dealer’s motivation but I trust Dan and his view of the market.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Oswiff

Trusted lease broker Dan from Next Level posted in another thread today that 0-2% off MSRP is what’s out there.
There will of course be outliers as has been posted in other threads. We don’t know any dealer’s motivation but I trust Dan and his view of the market.

Agree; I've used him personally many times. If the market dictates 2% it's 2%. At some point 10% plus with incentives will be back.

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by masd79

.0030 is what I gathered and just walked away.. will patiently wait for my order and quoted mf of .00255 and will try to negotiate down to .00225 and hopefully by then bmw will share the $7500 rebate too 😃…. Almost wanting a delayed delivery in hopes for the sort of a discount but I know it won’t happen…

Very rough math, but so people know what a change in MF means to payments here it is (someone check me on this if it is incorrect).

The MF going from .00225 to .003 is about a $150 difference per month, or about a $5,400 difference over 3 years.

I don’t think my car will be here until March or April, so we will see what the rates look like at that time. I am planning on leasing, but may just cut them a check and “self-insure” against major depreciation swings.

I would prefer to lease as I am very curious what the EV market will look like in three and a half years. I strongly considered a Taycan Cross Turismo, but I don’t think the rear is big enough for my dog.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Crazy1323

Very rough math, but so people know what a change in MF means to payments here it is (someone check me on this if it is incorrect).

The MF going from .00225 to .003 is about a $150 difference per month, or about a $5,400 difference over 3 years.

I don’t think my car will be here until March or April, so we will see what the rates look like at that time. I am planning on leasing, but may just cut them a check and “self-insure” against major depreciation swings.

I would prefer to lease as I am very curious what the EV market will look like in three and a half years. I strongly considered a Taycan Cross Turismo, but I don’t think the rear is big enough for my dog.

A small markup on the MF makes a difference long term. Why people always have to check the full deal. A discount may not be as discount with hidden fees.

Leasing takes the risk out.

You could do the credit app now on the lease at the dealership its inbound too and it would rate lock for either 90 days or 120 depending upon region. If you ask.... if the car gets delayed sometimes bmw FS/dealership will honor it even after the peroid. That would lock the rate in for today but you can always take the better rate in March if it's better.


EV market is rough as nothing is holding value and sales are down. If the leasing credit dies that will slow the market down and make leasing less attractive. So, manufacturers will throttle inventory and slow enhancements and productions.

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

You could do the credit app now on the lease at the dealership its inbound too and it would rate lock for either 90 days or 120 depending upon region. If you ask.... if the car gets delayed sometimes bmw FS/dealership will honor it even after the peroid. That would lock the rate in for today but you can always take the better rate in March if it's better.

I’m not even sure I would make the 120 days. I think I am scheduled for week 12 production. Maybe if the rates are looking better in January I can try to lock something in towards the end of the month.

[DocWeatherington]

It's always a toss up...but sn option

[ctelimad]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Agree; I've used him personally many times. If the market dictates 2% it's 2%. At some point 10% plus with incentives will be back.

My car is through dan
I am at msrp but now i asked for 1% and i think thos is the best you can have now in the east coast

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by ctelimad

My car is through dan
I am at msrp but now i asked for 1% and i think thos is the best you can have now in the east coast

You have cca or military? Probably

[RJH52]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Brokers can often get better deals than regular folks. 2.5% off on 120k isnt much which can't be made up via a slight MF markup or some BS add on, but it's something.

I will be curious to see sales figures in 12 months. Bmw has said there won't be a Comp but market will dictate it and people will wait, I've learned never get first model year of anything.

Also, I think the price of it also plays a factor . A G90 vs F90 lease or buy isnt what was a few years ago with the adjustment for inflation, some folks can't swallow the idea of a 2k plus car payment a month.

This is where I’m at mentally. I have a 540 and really like it but would love to upgrade to the M5. The idea of leasing and paying $72-78k total just seems insane to me.

Years ago my dad had a fully optioned S class around $140k. With discounts his lease was $51k total for the three years. His 7 series at similar MSRPs of the new M5 were closer to $40k. Just a different time with the market.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by RJH52

This is where I’m at mentally. I have a 540 and really like it but would love to upgrade to the M5. The idea of leasing and paying $72-78k total just seems insane to me.

Years ago my dad had a fully optioned S class around $140k. With discounts his lease was $51k total for the three years. His 7 series at similar MSRPs of the new M5 were closer to $40k. Just a different time with the market.

Yeah, have to play to pay.

It's like how many fast food places can you get a decent meal with a drink for under 18 bucks...

[RJH52]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Yeah, have to play to pay.

It's like how many fast food places can you get a decent meal with a drink for under 18 bucks...

Exactly. I think what I struggle with mentally is the fact the MSRP is basically the same of the cars he leased a few years back but the lease is almost double.

I bought my car in January. Probably best I wait a few years and see what the market is doing then. With the M5 being a plug in hybrid and having that battery I’m not sure it makes sense to buy one.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by RJH52

Exactly. I think what I struggle with mentally is the fact the MSRP is basically the same of the cars he leased a few years back but the lease is almost double.

I bought my car in January. Probably best I wait a few years and see what the market is doing then. With the M5 being a plug in hybrid and having that battery I’m not sure it makes sense to buy one.

Time will tell. Hybrid for many manufacturers is the way to go with worldwide platforms and emissions

Unfortunately have to brace the suck as nothing is getting cheaper

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by RJH52

Exactly. I think what I struggle with mentally is the fact the MSRP is basically the same of the cars he leased a few years back but the lease is almost double.

Leasing companies got burned on some cars in COVID. In response they have set residuals artificially low in my mind. A lease has two components, the depreciation and the rental fee. The monthly depreciation is just the selling price minus the residual divided by the number of months. Think of this as “how much of the car are you using”. The “rental fee” is based on the MF, selling price, and residual.

With a 36 month lease and 10k miles per year, the residual for an M5 sedan is 57%. If the car has a $130 MSRP then the residual (what they expect the car to be worth at the end of the lease) is $74,100. So you are “using” $55,900 of value. Divided by 36 months is $1,553 per month. That would be your lease payment with a MF of zero, not counting taxes.

You may get some of this depreciation back at the end if the car is actually worth more. If the car was worth $80k at the end of the lease you could get $5,900 of equity out. If the car is worth less than $74,100 at the end then you hand in your keys and walk away. You don’t owe anything.

The rental fee is for time value of money. There is no getting this back.

As you can see, the main area that the leasing company has exposure is if the value of the car at the end of the lease is lower than the residual amount. To protect themselves from this leasing companies are setting these residuals at the “floor” of what they think the values will be. The leasing companies are also offsetting some of this exposure by charging a higher rate to lease. I think BMW will provide financing at 4.99% but the buy rate on the lease MF is roughly 5.4% (MF of .00225).

[subterFUSE]

I believe that historically BMW has used higher residual values than other competing car brands as a means of encouraging leasing and competing for business. This resulted in lower lease payments vs. other brands for similar cars. But they might have been burned over the past few years when Covid tilted the car market upside down.

When I leased my 2020 F90, there were people snagging M5 leases for $1200 a month. Those days are over.

[Oswiff]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

I believe that historically BMW has used higher residual values than other competing car brands as a means of encouraging leasing and competing for business. This resulted in lower lease payments vs. other brands for similar cars. But they might have been burned over the past few years when Covid tilted the car market upside down.

When I leased my 2020 F90, there were people snagging M5 leases for $1200 a month. Those days are over.

I guess one could call those the good ole' days. I leased my 2021 F90 with 9% off and the payment was around $1200. I remember an m4 comp was around $680. Not sure if we will see those rates/payments anytime soon.

[ctelimad]

Originally Posted by Oswiff

I guess one could call those the good ole' days. I leased my 2021 F90 with 9% off and the payment was around $1200. I remember an m4 comp was around $680. Not sure if we will see those rates/payments anytime soon.

Gone those days
I think you can see m5 at 1800$ but dount any lower anytime soon

[Hammer110!]

Originally Posted by ctelimad

Gone those days
I think you can see m5 at 1800$ but dount any lower anytime soon

A stripped one maybe but anything optioned is going to be high 130’s and you’re not going to see 1800.00 on that no way

[ctelimad]

Originally Posted by Hammer110!

A stripped one maybe but anything optioned is going to be high 130’s and you’re not going to see 1800.00 on that no way

If you they throw incentives and discount the car and the MF will go down at some point end next year maybe
Just so you know an XM is going for less then 1100 a month with msrp of 160k plus