[BloomRunsDubs]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

You're "upper middleclass", but you have an M4, M3C, RR SVR, Hellcat, and Gallardo? Sorry that you're struggling so much. By all means, skirt and avoid taxes that the 99.9% of the rest of the population pays. Just be aware of your state's rules and laws with property taxes and avoidance and how often you can drive the car and how long it can stay in your state on an annual basis. Again, sorry that you cannot afford your tax bills on your beaters.

Like stated above I am a car enthusiast, I have a relatively modest home and make sacrifices in other areas to be able to have the cars that I enjoy.

Do you really consider every suburban couple that finance a new 100k loaded soccer mom suv and 100k loaded pickup to be to be “Wealthy”? lol. Not much difference with an old Gallardo and old M cars except for the fact that they aren’t depreciating anymore.

Hard working middle and upper middle class people are not your enemy.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BloomRunsDubs

Like stated above I am a car enthusiast, I have a relatively modest home and make sacrifices in other areas to be able to have the cars that I enjoy.

Do you really consider every suburban couple that finance a new 100k loaded soccer mom suv and 100k loaded pickup to be to be “Wealthy”? lol. Not much difference with an old Gallardo and old M cars except for the fact that they aren’t depreciating anymore.

Hard working middle and upper middle class people are not your enemy.

All good, but the American Revolutionary War was started over taxes (i.e. tariffs). Explicitly over, "taxation without representation". The Colonies had income tax, sales tax, and land taxes, all used to fund the Revolutionary War.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BloomRunsDubs

Like stated above I am a car enthusiast, I have a relatively modest home and make sacrifices in other areas to be able to have the cars that I enjoy.

Do you really consider every suburban couple that finance a new 100k loaded soccer mom suv and 100k loaded pickup to be to be “Wealthy”? lol. Not much difference with an old Gallardo and old M cars except for the fact that they aren’t depreciating anymore.

Hard working middle and upper middle class people are not your enemy.

So you've got 5 cars worth a couple hundred grand at a mininum. I have a hard believing you own a "modest" house especially if you've got space to store all those cars. Perhaps it's modest to compared to someone with a $20M net worth, but I have a hard time believing it's modest by most people's definition.

I don't think hard working middle and upper middle class people are my enemy. I am truly middle class for an earner in Kansas though would be considered "wealthy" per various publications and that's not including the modest 1979 1,900 ft2 home that I own in a decent Kansas City suburb (but not considered nice by most folks). Yes, LOTS of people live beyond their means, rich or poor. We're not talking about that. We're talking about the wealthy and how they looks to all sorts of avenues to skirt/avoid taxes.

States are catching on to the Montana LLC thing and go after people. Kansas and Missouri are. If they are doing it, I'm certain other states are too. Pay what you owe. Don't like the rules/laws, contact your representatives.

Just because you might be paying a five figure tax bill on a new or used car doesn't mean the taxes you're paying are any worse than anyone else. You're choosing to buy an expensive car.

Lastly, government isn't your enemy either. Government is inefficient and you can't run a government like a business. You can work towards improving efficiency, but it will ALWAYS be very inefficient.

[jkoral]

I was reminded of this thread when the other day my sister in Florida texted me this picture and asked if they drove all the way from Montana!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by jkoral

I was reminded of this thread when the other day my sister in Florida texted me this picture and asked if they drove all the way from Montana!

What an awesome road to drive a super car on!

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

This bolded statement is so true amongst the wealthy and how they view their tax "struggles".

Life ain't fair. Just ask the folks with a family living on sub $50K/yr that work their tails off and can't get ahead for a multitude of reasons outside their control.

Sorry if I have little sympathy for the majority of wealthy folks continuously gaming the system to their financial benefit.

I would have to agree here. Just nut up, be a man, and pay your taxes. I'm upper middle class and I had to pay my taxes, despite how .much it sucks. I have no sympathy for people evading taxes because "why would I want to pay more taxes". I seriously doubt local LEOs are going to also not care, when they know those taxes go towards their salaries, and that when they need a COL raise or a new hire to the department people cheating taxes are part of the reason they can't get it.

If I was a cop, I'd be pulling over every Montana plate car I saw, and inguaran damn tee every one of these people does something to give probable cause to pull them over and then impound the vehicle for improper registration.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by BloomRunsDubs

Like stated above I am a car enthusiast, I have a relatively modest home and make sacrifices in other areas to be able to have the cars that I enjoy.

Do you really consider every suburban couple that finance a new 100k loaded soccer mom suv and 100k loaded pickup to be to be “Wealthy”? lol. Not much difference with an old Gallardo and old M cars except for the fact that they aren’t depreciating anymore.

Hard working middle and upper middle class people are not your enemy.

People in upper middle class aren't financing $200k plus worth of cars. Unless they're just so insanely bad with money that they're literally on the verge of homeless ess because they have to keep up with others.

[BloomRunsDubs]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

People in upper middle class aren't financing $200k plus worth of cars. Unless they're just so insanely bad with money that they're literally on the verge of homeless ess because they have to keep up with others.

You’d be surprised lol

I think banks have been doing 96 month loans on those things now to keep up with the rising prices of the vehicles

[BloomRunsDubs]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

So you've got 5 cars worth a couple hundred grand at a mininum. I have a hard believing you own a "modest" house especially if you've got space to store all those cars. Perhaps it's modest to compared to someone with a $20M net worth, but I have a hard time believing it's modest by most people's definition.

I don't think hard working middle and upper middle class people are my enemy. I am truly middle class for an earner in Kansas though would be considered "wealthy" per various publications and that's not including the modest 1979 1,900 ft2 home that I own in a decent Kansas City suburb (but not considered nice by most folks). Yes, LOTS of people live beyond their means, rich or poor. We're not talking about that. We're talking about the wealthy and how they looks to all sorts of avenues to skirt/avoid taxes.

States are catching on to the Montana LLC thing and go after people. Kansas and Missouri are. If they are doing it, I'm certain other states are too. Pay what you owe. Don't like the rules/laws, contact your representatives.

Just because you might be paying a five figure tax bill on a new or used car doesn't mean the taxes you're paying are any worse than anyone else. You're choosing to buy an expensive car.

Lastly, government isn't your enemy either. Government is inefficient and you can't run a government like a business. You can work towards improving efficiency, but it will ALWAYS be very inefficient.

Based off that info your house’s value is not extremely far off from mine

Many people have a warped perception of exotic cars. They see Lambo and instantly think 8 figure net worth when in reality entry level exotics like the Gallardo, Huracan and R8 are cheaper to insure and maintain than most M cars and luxury suvs. Unless you have a degenerate driving record jacking up your insurance, or live in a degenerate high crime area.

Also the government not being the enemy is HIGHLY debatable, at least over the past 4 years, but we don’t need to get into that.

[Mech Spec]

All it takes is for some Instagram weenie with an exotic registered in Montana to go careening into a pedestrian and the entire system comes crashing down.

One guy driving on an revoked license from another state caused a tragic traffic accident up here and the entirety of the RMV system got turned upside down to eliminate all out of state misalignments.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BloomRunsDubs

Based off that info your house’s value is not extremely far off from mine

Many people have a warped perception of exotic cars. They see Lambo and instantly think 8 figure net worth when in reality entry level exotics like the Gallardo, Huracan and R8 are cheaper to insure and maintain than most M cars and luxury suvs. Unless you have a degenerate driving record jacking up your insurance, or live in a degenerate high crime area.

Also the government not being the enemy is HIGHLY debatable, at least over the past 4 years, but we don’t need to get into that.

My home is worth about $400K.

I own a 2018 M2 and a 2011 Cayman. Collectively, both used cars cost me $73K. I get what you are saying about the cost of certain used exotics and perception, but you've got 5 cars, all with values in the $40K-100K range depending on options and transmission. Insurance is cheaper than most think, but there's a lot a cost in maintaining that many cars, especially the cars you have. I constantly tell people that "there is nothing more expensive than a cheap Porsche". I do all my own work on my cars, but I'm not going to give folks the perception that owning or maintaining either one of my cars is no worse than a more typical car. I would say it's 2X-4X as much if I had someone else doing the work.

And I am sorry for the government making your life so difficult. I can't complain. Prior to January 2025, my portfolio increased in value over the years 2020-2024 on a percentage basis than any year prior (been investing since 1998). Two and half months into 2025 and I'm down and it's getting worse by the day and aims to get really bad by this summer.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by jkoral

I was reminded of this thread when the other day my sister in Florida texted me this picture and asked if they drove all the way from Montana!

He must be a traveling salesman, a real minimalist, and perhaps only packs sun screen?

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by BloomRunsDubs

You’d be surprised lol

I think banks have been doing 96 month loans on those things now to keep up with the rising prices of the vehicles

That's such a a disgustingly bad idea I can't express it with words

[Alfisti]

400K? What in dollars? I know you're really conservative and have squirrelled away well for retirement but $400K ... i mean here that's a basement apartment at best.

[BloomRunsDubs]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

My home is worth about $400K.

I own a 2018 M2 and a 2011 Cayman. Collectively, both used cars cost me $73K. I get what you are saying about the cost of certain used exotics and perception, but you've got 5 cars, all with values in the $40K-100K range depending on options and transmission. Insurance is cheaper than most think, but there's a lot a cost in maintaining that many cars, especially the cars you have. I constantly tell people that "there is nothing more expensive than a cheap Porsche". I do all my own work on my cars, but I'm not going to give folks the perception that owning or maintaining either one of my cars is no worse than a more typical car. I would say it's 2X-4X as much if I had someone else doing the work.

And I am sorry for the government making your life so difficult. I can't complain. Prior to January 2025, my portfolio increased in value over the years 2020-2024 on a percentage basis than any year prior (been investing since 1998). Two and half months into 2025 and I'm down and it's getting worse by the day and aims to get really bad by this summer.

Nice cars. I love M2s, definitely on my list of cars id like to own in the future. I know a few good independent mechanics that work on my cars, I would never take them to franchise dealers.. talk about lighting money on fire.

I wasn't trying to say the government came in and ruined my life lol. I did well financially over the past for years as well. I have many other reasons for voting the way I did. One of them being the dumping of 1000+ illegals in a small city not too far from me, overwhelming resources and driving up crime. Also the only tax break I've ever seen in my lifetime was under the mean orange man back in 2017 I think.

Anyways I appreciate everyone's input and criticism. I never thought my original reply to this thread would garner this much attention, thanks for all the replies!

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

400K? What in dollars? I know you're really conservative and have squirrelled away well for retirement but $400K ... i mean here that's a basement apartment at best.

Funny. My wife just sent me a house in rural NC. Nice house, 3 car extended garage, 4000sqft, 2 acre lot, $320k. I was like "we could just about buy that cash with what we've made on this house.... But then we would have to move and O'd need a new jobs and all that kinda stuff.

So yeah, nice stuff like that exists.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by BloomRunsDubs

I’m fairly certain I could just be honest with my local police and tell them I registered it in Montana to avoid sales tax and they would say “Huh interesting have a nice day”

I'm fairly certain they'd write you a ticket for improper registration & give you a time frame (30 days) to provide proof that the vehicle has been registered correctly to your home address. They may even tow the vehicle depending on how the officer is feeling that day. Improper registration tickets here are a few hundred dollars I believe, more than speeding through a flashing school zone, so they're not going to pass up that revenue.

[spazzyfry123]

It seems to be a big business that Montana wouldn't be interested in losing. As it's a benefit to them, they don't consider it illegal. I read somewhere that there are twice as many vehicles registered in Montana as there are human beings. LLCs are registered at a rate 2.5 times that of other states.

Here in Georgia, they linked cars that have a Peach Pass (toll road in metro Atlanta) to cars with Montana plates. They were able to track movement of the car and frequency in the state to then have their case to chase.

Given that the car would be presumably purchased and registered by the LLC, where would the penalties lie? If someone were to crack down, wouldn't the responsibility be with the Limited Liability Company and not the individual? I believe Montana also allows anonymous ownership, too. We see it relatively frequently here in other aspects of business. Say a septic company gets caught dumping their pump into a storm drain. They just dissolve that LLC, start a new one, and boom! They're back to pumping poo.

I clearly don't have an LLC nor am I a tax attorney or CPA, so I have effectively no knowledge of how this works. I also think these professions wouldn't necessarily exist in the tax world if it was clear cut in black and white. Folks are always looking for things to offset or reduce their tax burden.

Curious what the "next best" alternate state would be. Quick search, it would seem South Dakota may next in line. Not as advantageous, but certainly better than most - especially with the eyes drawn to a Montana plate.

Signed,
Someone that has no interest in registering their own vehicles out of state but is interested in the topic all the same.

[BloomRunsDubs]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I'm fairly certain they'd write you a ticket for improper registration & give you a time frame (30 days) to provide proof that the vehicle has been registered correctly to your home address. They may even tow the vehicle depending on how the officer is feeling that day. Improper registration tickets here are a few hundred dollars I believe, more than speeding through a flashing school zone, so they're not going to pass up that revenue.

Out of state plates alone are not a valid reason to pull someone over. Sure they could think of a reason to pull me over and check the registration but definitely could not tow my car lol. Valid out of state registration and valid insurance is not improper registration.

If it was that black and white no one would be doing this.

[Mech Spec]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

It seems to be a big business that Montana wouldn't be interested in losing. As it's a benefit to them, they don't consider it illegal. I read somewhere that there are twice as many vehicles registered in Montana as there are human beings. LLCs are registered at a rate 2.5 times that of other states.

Here in Georgia, they linked cars that have a Peach Pass (toll road in metro Atlanta) to cars with Montana plates. They were able to track movement of the car and frequency in the state to then have their case to chase.

Given that the car would be presumably purchased and registered by the LLC, where would the penalties lie? If someone were to crack down, wouldn't the responsibility be with the Limited Liability Company and not the individual? I believe Montana also allows anonymous ownership, too. We see it relatively frequently here in other aspects of business. Say a septic company gets caught dumping their pump into a storm drain. They just dissolve that LLC, start a new one, and boom! They're back to pumping poo.

I clearly don't have an LLC nor am I a tax attorney or CPA, so I have effectively no knowledge of how this works. I also think these professions wouldn't necessarily exist in the tax world if it was clear cut in black and white. Folks are always looking for things to offset or reduce their tax burden.

Curious what the "next best" alternate state would be. Quick search, it would seem South Dakota may next in line. Not as advantageous, but certainly better than most - especially with the eyes drawn to a Montana plate.

Signed,
Someone that has no interest in registering their own vehicles out of state but is interested in the topic all the same.

As far as the LLC protections, the corporate veil would immediately be pierced since its presumably a single owner LLC with no other business operations.

LLC is just the allowed vehicle for registering in state and how montana gets paid for their harboring of tax evaders. It offers no protections.

Seen people with the SD plates once in a while. definitely exotics, dont know if it's common.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by BloomRunsDubs

Out of state plates alone are not a valid reason to pull someone over. Sure they could think of a reason to pull me over and check the registration but definitely could not tow my car lol. Valid out of state registration and valid insurance is not improper registration.

If it was that black and white no one would be doing this.

"It looked like you had a license plate bulb out" or "you were doing 55 in a 54" is all it takes.

And yeah, they can tow your car and impound it. The vehicle is required to be registered in state within 30 days in most states. They absolutely can, and will tow your car. Especially if you act like a dick.

[BloomRunsDubs]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

"It looked like you had a license plate bulb out" or "you were doing 55 in a 54" is all it takes.

And yeah, they can tow your car and impound it. The vehicle is required to be registered in state within 30 days in most states. They absolutely can, and will tow your car. Especially if you act like a dick.

Of course as an adult I would never act like a jackass towards law enforcement. I don’t get pulled over much but when I do it ends in a quick convo, a few laughs and a warning never a ticket.

I will most likely just pay the tax, not because I think it’s some moral or just thing to do but simply because I love our black and white Road America plates that we have here and would much prefer that to any out of state plate.