[flybigjet]

So-- long story short.

My wife's always had "a thing" about ragtops and Porsche's. I loathe one and am ambivalent about the other, but not my monkeys, not my circus.

A buddy of mine is getting close to retirement and is downsizing. He offered me first dibs on his 2005 Boxster S. ~34k, MT, overall good condition except that some idiot massively keyed his car down the entire passenger side. Since he's one of the nicest guys on the planet, it was obviously done by some pinhead who was pissed because he had a nice car.

Basic math says car (~$20k), new upgraded stereo/computer center that allows for CarPlay and a backup camera ($2500 +$1k in labor) and getting the scratch fixed (estimates range from $5-8k) put me just around $30k for a 20 year old car. It would be a reasonable deal if I didn't have to repair/repaint the scratch, but after sleeping on it for the weekend, the Wife decided that the scratch is a dealbreaker. Adding an additional $5-8k for the repair makes it a no-go.

Then, I started looking and it looks for about $10-15k more, I can get a 2015-2020-ish or so (probably base model- she doesn't care about performance) Boxster with low mileage, soft top and MT.

That seems to be a better idea. I can sell her (pristine and low mileage) Miata RF-GT for about $25k, so I'd be out of pocket the additional $10-15k-- that's doable.

The problem? I know NOTHING about Boxters. Which are good years? Which are the years to avoid? What are the problem areas? What are the differences between the base and the S?

And most importantly..... how in the hell do I go about finding them? Most of the obvious sites (KBB, Edmunds, CarVana, AutoTrader) seem to cap the years available at 2016 and earlier, which just seems weird.

There's got to be a better way of finding her "dream car".

A little help?

TIA--

R.

[Efthreeoh]

Why didn't he get the scratch fixed under insurance?

[chassis]

Finder has some $40k 981s listed that look OK.

In my several years as a Porsche owner, the most egregious flaw in my mind is IMS bearing failure on flat-6s of certain years. As always with any car, the newest and lowest mileage for the price point, which ticks all of your boxes is best.

Resources:

Finder.porsche.com
Rennlist - friendlier and more helpful than most car enthusiast sites
Bringatrailer
Cargurus
Bimmerpost - lots of people here own P-cars
Wikipedia for specs

List of things to do from a thread on the first page of the 986 section:

“Be prepared to replace if it hasn't been done:
1. IMS bearing
2. clutch kit/flywheel
3. RMS
4. AOS
5. Variocam wear pads
easy DiY items...
6. Chain tensioners
7. Serpentine belt
8. Engine/Cabin Filters
9. belt tensioners
10. flush fluids and refill
11. battery
12. Oil change”

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

The problem? I know NOTHING about Boxsters. Which are good years? Which are the years to avoid? What are the problem areas? What are the differences between the base and the S?

And most importantly..... how in the hell do I go about finding them? Most of the obvious sites (KBB, Edmunds, CarVana, AutoTrader) seem to cap the years available at 2016 and earlier, which just seems weird.

There's got to be a better way of finding her "dream car".

A little help?

The current models are 718 Boxsters, which are turbocharged flat fours (except for the 4.0 flat six), The last generation of naturally-aspirated models was the 981 which came in flat six form: The S had a larger 3.4 engine but coming from the Miata, I'd think a base (2.9 liter, if memory serves) would suffice. I bought a 2013 Boxster S when it first came out and I loved that car; kept it for 8 years and sold it only when my wife and I agreed that getting in and out of such a low car was getting difficult due to our age. My 2013 was rock-solid reliable. I have not kept up with the 981s but suspect there are few problem areas... I would highly recommend the Boxster of any vintage. The steering, the brakes, the suspension: sublime. Manuals are rare; most are dual-clutch (PDK in Porsche-speak).

However, routine maintenance and repair of a Porsche can eat you alive. A reliable independent service is a must, though you may still have to go to the dealership for some items.

The generation before the 981 was the 987 and the differences are similar: Flat six of two sizes (base and S).

One minor note about the Boxster is that the cars are amazingly practical, with trunks front and rear. I used to go grocery shopping in mine. As a lifelong car nut, I always salivated over the thought of having a Porsche 911. My 981 ownership cured me of that thought.

[slilley]

My recommendation is to find a good Certified Pre-Owned (CPO) car from a local Porsche dealer. Then you have a warranty on anything that goes wrong. The cars are supposed to pass a 100+ point checklist to qualify for being CPO, but this isn't a guarantee - there are some less-than-reputable dealers out there.

[BlkGS]

Boxsters should be easy to find on cars.com or cargurus. The S model is more power, and usually bigger brakes. If she doesn't care about going fast, don't worry about an S, the base cars are WAY cheaper.

Good years vs bad years is totally subjective. Arguably the best years are like 2009-2013, the 987.2 generation. The earlier motors were problematic with IMS bearings, and the later cars switched to 4 cylinder motors.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

2005 Boxster S. ~34k, MT, overall good condition

This would be a 987.1, which suffered from IMS bearing failures. A failure means a new engine. If the IMS was not replaced I would be concerned, probably budget for an aftermarket replacement.

The biggest differences between generations:
987.1 (2005-2008) -> 987.2 (2009-2012) - new engines without IMS bearing issues; S model gets direct injection (base still uses port injection); automatic gets PDK (superior to previous automatic).
987 -> 981 (2012-2016) - moving to electric power steering (Porsche 1st gen EPS, which is not as good as later EPS or the HPS before it).
981 -> 982 (called 718, 2016 to now) - moving to turbocharged flat-4 (from N/A flat-6); 2nd gen EPS.

The ultimate sweet spot is 987.2, and the market shows it. But that does depend on your preferences and what you are looking in the car.

[Josh-PA]

Chassis and Ohio Enthusiast laid out the history of the boxster well and what to avoid. Basically cross anything pre 2009 off your list and start from there. The 4cyl 718s are widely disliked by "Porsche Purists" because the little 4 cylinder sounds like a Subaru, and Porsche engines are supposed to be high revving flat 6s - but if your wife likes low end torque as opposed to ringing an engine out at high RPM, she might prefer the 718. The interior is vastly superior to the previous gen cars as well. Something like this would be a nice option (assuming it's been taken care of):
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...NWIDE_SHIPPING
https://vinanalytics.com/car/WP0CA2A89HS220621/


Some of the online car for sales sites filter boxsters by generation (987, 981, 982/718) so you may be getting cut off due to that. I personally like autotempest to search because it consolidates a number of sources into one output:
https://www.autotempest.com/results?...le&title=clean

From first pass, it looks like early 981s are your sweetspot (2013/2014) they're pretty robust and if you can find one that has decent maintenance history, you should be pretty low risk. You'll have to click through the for sale ads, because a lot of PDK (automatic) cars are listed as manuals. It's really frustrating.

Porsche Options are all over the place, so pay attention to how each one is built. Most options are individually chosen (vs packages on the BMW side), so you can find some very weird builds out there. Vin Analytics is awesome for getting build sheets:
https://vinanalytics.com/

just type in the VIN number and it will spit out the build. It even has a widget that you can install into chrome that allows you to click directly from a for sale ad and pull up the vin report.

[Alfisti]

I would not consider a 987.1 in any condition, spend the money on a 987.2, you will get it back on resale. Get a bore scope inspection or walk and i'd lean heavily towards a stick for reliability and resale.

Spend up front on a good example, fixing will be expensive unless you are a very competent mechanic.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by slilley

My recommendation is to find a good Certified Pre-Owned (CPO) car from a local Porsche dealer. Then you have a warranty on anything that goes wrong. The cars are supposed to pass a 100+ point checklist to qualify for being CPO, but this isn't a guarantee - there are some less-than-reputable dealers out there.

"anything that goes wrong" isn't really the case, it only really covers you if you lose an engine or tranny, the rest is labelled "wear and tear".

MHO you're paying overs for CPO, get a PPI, a thorough one with a bose scope.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by chassis

In my several years as a Porsche owner, the most egregious flaw in my mind is IMS bearing failure on flat-6s of certain years. As always with any car, the newest and lowest mileage for the price point, which ticks all of your boxes is best.

Disagree here. The biggest flaw has turned out to be the ludicrous incidence of the engine lunching itself due to bore scoring. This is most prevalent on the 911 3.8 engine used in the 996 and early 997 models but does raise it's in smaller and later versions of the engine. A bore scope showing clean cylinder walls is a must.

"Newer" is worse IMHO, the 4 cylinder is a massive downgrade on a sports car, flat 6 all day, every day.

[flybigjet]

After going down the rabbit hole last night and my wife beating me over the head with this being suddenly the most important thing on my plate (juuuuuust what I needed after coming home from probably the hardest trip I've ever flown), I'm starting to circle the wagons on:

Third-Gen (981) 2013-2016. That gives the NA flat-6 instead of a turbo flat-4.

6-MT instead of PDK.

Under 40,000 miles.

Base instead of S (the Minister isn't a speed demon and doesn't care about the extra power).

Color TBD as long as it's NOT black or white.

Price under ~$45k.

This will be a replacement for her 2019 Miata RF-GT hardtop. Between selling that and her selling some work stock, I can pull this off without having to take out a loan.

I can pretty much fly anywhere in the country for free, so a "fly and drive" is certainly doable.

So-- any options on a Third-Gen that are "absolute" must-haves?

Thanks guys-- I'm historically a BMW guy, so I'm dipping my toe into unknown waters here.

(Although the Minister *did* mention that I could sell the M2C and get a Cayman S so we'd match).

R.

[Alfisti]

I will add that it is a good time to buy with many examples available, personally i'd choose a real colour not grey/silver/black and be wary of Porsche coloured interiors as they can be a bit gaudy.

I think you need to go see a 987.2 and a third gen, sit in them etc. The 987.2 is the sweet spot for a driver's car, no question. The 3rd gen goes to electric steering, nicer interior and ride though. Depends what she wants, they are quite different cars.

At first glance this is a bit of a bargain.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/1...-77b3126bde35/

Looks a million bucks, the black interior is not ideal on hot days. She has a front left claim, minor, hence the price. TBH worth a look and inspection at this price, in this colour and this spec for a stick. These cars are easy to inspect for front end damage as you just remove the liner carpet in the frunk. It was a 2015 accident so tbh you should be good. Was listed 4 months ago, spring is here though, this will not last and TBH unless you go boring silver or grey I don't see anything else nationwide at this price for this spec. I'd go take a look.

The 2.7 flat 6 is a million miles from a Miata. It is the engine the Miati needs. Unfortunately it would add 30K to the sticker price but a small, rev happy 6 cylinder is pure joy. It'll egg you on like nothing else to keep flogging it.

OUCH just noticed two front end hits. Bleh.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

After going down the rabbit hole last night and my wife beating me over the head with this being suddenly the most important thing on my plate (juuuuuust what I needed after coming home from probably the hardest trip I've ever flown), I'm starting to circle the wagons on:

Third-Gen (981) 2012-2016. That gives the NA flat-6 instead of a turbo flat-4.

6-MT instead of PDK.

Under 40,000 miles.

Base instead of S (the Minister isn't a speed demon and doesn't care about the extra power).

Color TBD as long as it's NOT black or white.

Price under ~$45k.

This will be a replacement for her 2019 Miata RF-GT hardtop. Between selling that and her selling some work stock, I can pull this off without having to take out a loan.

I can pretty much fly anywhere in the country for free, so a "fly and drive" is certainly doable.

So-- any options on a Third-Gen that are "absolute" must-haves?

Thanks guys-- I'm historically a BMW guy, so I'm dipping my toe into unknown waters here.

(Although the Minister *did* mention that I could sell the M2C and get a Cayman S so we'd match).

R.

Do some homework on fly and drive.

For you the fly part is no issue. The drive part was an issue for me because I live in a state with no reciprocal tax agreement with California where I bought the Cayenne. This meant paying sales tax twice in my situation.

Selling dealer said I could not drive off the CA lot without paying CA tax, so I skipped the fly/drive plan and had the car shipped 2,400 miles to me where I paid sales tax in my home state after delivery.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I will add that it is a good time to buy with many examples available, personally i'd choose a real colour not grey/silver/black and be wary of Porsche coloured interiors as they can be a bit gaudy.

I think you need to go see a 987.2 and a third gen, sit in them etc. The 987.2 is the sweet spot for a driver's car, no question. The 3rd gen goes to electric steering, nicer interior and ride though. Depends what she wants, they are quite different cars.

At first glance this is a bit of a bargain.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/1...-77b3126bde35/

Looks a million bucks, the black interior is not ideal on hot days. She has a front left claim, minor, hence the price. TBH worth a look and inspection at this price, in this colour and this spec for a stick. These cars are easy to inspect for front end damage as you just remove the liner carpet in the frunk. It was a 2015 accident so tbh you should be good. Was listed 4 months ago, spring is here though, this will not last and TBH unless you go boring silver or grey I don't see anything else nationwide at this price for this spec. I'd go take a look.

The 2.7 flat 6 is a million miles from a Miata. It is the engine the Miati needs. Unfortunately it would add 30K to the sticker price but a small, rev happy 6 cylinder is pure joy. It'll egg you on like nothing else to keep flogging it.

OUCH just noticed two front end hits. Bleh.

Heh-- I looked at the one early this morning. Loved the color, but the two front enders sort of turned me off. And CarFax said it was originally black? (But that may be a data error).

R.

[Alfisti]

You Americans and your balkanisation of the states, does my head in.

I am surprised at the price points TBH, you're approaching a base 911 price which is nuts.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I will add that it is a good time to buy with many examples available, personally i'd choose a real colour not grey/silver/black and be wary of Porsche coloured interiors as they can be a bit gaudy.

I think you need to go see a 987.2 and a third gen, sit in them etc. The 987.2 is the sweet spot for a driver's car, no question. The 3rd gen goes to electric steering, nicer interior and ride though. Depends what she wants, they are quite different cars.

At first glance this is a bit of a bargain.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/1...-77b3126bde35/

Looks a million bucks, the black interior is not ideal on hot days. She has a front left claim, minor, hence the price. TBH worth a look and inspection at this price, in this colour and this spec for a stick. These cars are easy to inspect for front end damage as you just remove the liner carpet in the frunk. It was a 2015 accident so tbh you should be good. Was listed 4 months ago, spring is here though, this will not last and TBH unless you go boring silver or grey I don't see anything else nationwide at this price for this spec. I'd go take a look.

The 2.7 flat 6 is a million miles from a Miata. It is the engine the Miati needs. Unfortunately it would add 30K to the sticker price but a small, rev happy 6 cylinder is pure joy. It'll egg you on like nothing else to keep flogging it.

OUCH just noticed two front end hits. Bleh.

It's sold. Dealer just called me.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by chassis

Do some homework on fly and drive.

For you the fly part is no issue. The drive part was an issue for me because I live in a state with no reciprocal tax agreement with California where I bought the Cayenne. This meant paying sales tax twice in my situation.

Selling dealer said I could not drive off the CA lot without paying CA tax, so I skipped the fly/drive plan and had the car shipped 2,400 miles to me where I paid sales tax in my home state after delivery.

Good catch and something I hadn't thought of, but not a factor for me....

Motor vehicle sales made outside of Colorado are not subject to Colorado sales tax. Generally, a vehicle sale occurs at the location where the purchaser takes possession of the vehicle.
If anyone, including any individual or business, purchases a motor vehicle outside of Colorado and registers it in Colorado, the purchaser must pay Colorado use tax and any applicable local use tax at the time of registration. If the purchaser paid any sales, use, or other similar tax legally imposed by the state in which the sale took place, the purchaser is allowed a credit against the use tax due for the sales tax paid.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

Good catch and something I hadn't thought of, but not a factor for me....

Motor vehicle sales made outside of Colorado are not subject to Colorado sales tax. Generally, a vehicle sale occurs at the location where the purchaser takes possession of the vehicle.
If anyone, including any individual or business, purchases a motor vehicle outside of Colorado and registers it in Colorado, the purchaser must pay Colorado use tax and any applicable local use tax at the time of registration. If the purchaser paid any sales, use, or other similar tax legally imposed by the state in which the sale took place, the purchaser is allowed a credit against the use tax due for the sales tax paid.

Good - the "drive" part is safe. The next question is to understand the tax rate difference between Colorado and the state of purchase. Using an hypothetical CA-CO combination, CA has 1% higher sales tax than CO so you would pay more CA vs CO tax in order to drive it off the selling dealer's lot. You would have to research if you get a credit (refund) for tax in excess of what CO charges, on your CO tax return. OTOH if you buy in Delaware, which has no sales tax, you would be obligated to pay the full CO tax when you register for a CO plate.

[Alfisti]

I've done some poking around FBJ and stick is a major, major difficulty. 90% of them are PDK.

The PDK is a fine transmission, I use mine in M mode all the time and select my gears. However, if it breaks it is a marriage breaker.

[XutvJet]

I went down this rabbit hole a few years back when I decided I wanted a Cayman. There are just too potentially expensive issues with the 987.1 engines that I passed. I was stuck between the 987.2 and the 981. I had the money to buy the S models, but given that this was my first Porsche, I wanted to start cheaper just in case the ownership experience didn't pan out well. Plus, I already had a fast car at the time, a Stage 2 M235 6MT, and no matter what mods I did to an S, it still wouldn't be as fast as the M235. Plus, I wanted a pure driving experience and a high revving motor I could wring out on the streets and not be at crazy high speeds.

I ended up going with the 2011 987.2 Cayman Base 6MT with the 2.9 flat 6 with 265hp/221tq. The motor is great, but must be revved to get all the power as the gearing is long and the powerband is 5000-7400rpms. When driving the car, you really need to keep the rpms above 3000rpms. The car is quicker than I thought and I've gotten into the low 5 second 0-60 with 5000rpm launches and low 13s@103mph-ish. Not bad for a 265hp 2900lb car. My Cayman has been generally reliable, but it's a 14 y/o car. I've spent a good amount of coin doing repairs and maintenance over the last 2 years bring it back from an apparent rough life with 6 prior owners. I'll never get rid of this car.

The 981 is a step above the 987 in terms of interior room (mostly legroom), creature comforts, and overall refinement. The 987 is a great blend of raw and refinement whereas the 981 is one of the first generation Porsches where the company really started to hone in on refinement and reduced NVH. The Base model you're considering would come with the direct injection 2.7 with 275hp. It's a great motor. Easy to maintain, revs out, and makes all the great flat 6 sounds. The biggest issues I've read with the 981 cars are delaminating door panels and sagging roof liners (in the Caymans, same issue in the 987s including mine).

I'd avoid the PDK cars for the sole reason that they are EXTREMELY expensive to fix if there is an internal issue, usually what's known as the "distance" sensor. Porsche won't touch them. There are shop in the US starting to fix them, but it's a hassle to ship one off for repair. The 6MT car will always fetch a bit more money.

The 987 and 981 cars are VERY easy to work on if that is your thing. I can drop the transmission in 3 hours and the same goes for the 981. If you aren't a DIYer, I strongly suggest finding an independent Porsche shop as dealers hourly rates are near or above $300/hr.

The 987.2 cars are revered as the last true 911 which I've always found a bit amusing. The 987.2 have held their value and are starting to increase in value due to desirability and also the rareness of the model as Porsche didn't sell many due to the economic conditions between 2008-2012. The 981 cars are far easier to find. Just be patient.

I will say that definitely understand all the common issues of the generation Porsche you're looking at. I've never owned a car that eventually had every single issue noted on the forums. I'm not alone either as my two Porsche friends with a 2009 Cayman and a 2007 Cayman have experienced the same. It's not a question of "if" but rather "when".

[Alfisti]

Everything he said is right and if I shall be allowed to stereotype, i suspect a) your missus will prefer the 981.1 over the 987.2 and you will need to increase budget for a fine example in an actual colour not a shade of grey.