[Bluex]

Originally Posted by brianeck

All hell has been bitched countless times over the weight. Have you seen the other threads? My guess is that this car has appealed heavily to non-enthusiast/track market who otherwise would have bought other heavy ugly cars like x6m or xm.

Let me just be clear - I don't think the m5 is dumb and ugly - I just think many of its purchasers otherwise would have been perfectly comfortable in dumb, ugly, fast, heavy cars and now they have this.

I do not fit your theorized demographic.

I never was considering either of those vehicles. I came from an F80 (which I did track) and was considering an M8 and B8, which few would argue are “ugly” cars.

[iamvanja]

Originally Posted by thebonafortuna

I keep wondering what people from BMW think when they see these comments. People have kept on buying these cars because they drive well, they used to be built well, and they’re reliable. But the majority consensus keeps growing that they’re ugly and we’re buying them despite that.

My comment was more pointed towards manufacturers reserving the wagon body style for the top models in the US. When it comes to everyday practicality, a B58-powered wagon makes a lot more sense to me than a full M car. People have already complained about how heavy those performance-oriented cars have become. Then why is the most practical body style offered in that brutal performance version?? In the age of endless metrics and user tracking information, it is surprisingly disappointing how tone-deaf BMW has become about what its user base wants. Someone like me would be willing to put up with an ugly car if they offered a wagon with a lower-engine combo. But they don’t.

[NSX2M4]

[QUOTE=brianeck;31951299]All hell has been bitched countless times over the weight. Have you seen the other threads?


Ermmmm, yeah that was the whole point of my comment.

[BMWonlyZone]

[brianeck]

Originally Posted by Bluex

I do not fit your theorized demographic.

I never was considering either of those vehicles. I came from an F80 (which I did track) and was considering an M8 and B8, which few would argue are “ugly” cars.

You fit the full data set. I said "many" XM etc. You would fit the "few" that are not included by that statement. I'm considering the car but I won't be buying until 2027, and if the LCI has the dumb ass panoramic stuff I'll be getting a low mileage current gen m8 instead OR I'll be pulling a low mileage base 6mt m3. . . Would love to order individual but it might be closed out by the time my window hits in May. don't track, but I used to, and I beat the piss out of my commute. M8 interior is way nicer as of this moment too, and doesn't offend me with its Idrive and/or use of screens. I have always wanted a super wagon - as I said I don't hate the m5, and now it looks more than ever like Audi is going to wreck the RS6, but they have just backed out of a couple of bad decisions so. . . time will tell.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by hb

as of today, there is no new ICE M3 Touring planned

Yeah I assumed it would hybrid if it comes to US at all, closing the door on a good wagon ever coming to the US forever.

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by brianeck

You fit the full data set. I said "many" XM etc. You would fit the "few" that are not included by that statement. I'm considering the car but I won't be buying until 2027, and if the LCI has the dumb ass panoramic stuff I'll be getting a low mileage current gen m8 instead OR I'll be pulling a low mileage base 6mt m3. . . Would love to order individual but it might be closed out by the time my window hits in May. don't track, but I used to, and I beat the piss out of my commute. M8 interior is way nicer as of this moment too, and doesn't offend me with its Idrive and/or use of screens. I have always wanted a super wagon - as I said I don't hate the m5, and now it looks more than ever like Audi is going to wreck the RS6, but they have just backed out of a couple of bad decisions so. . . time will tell.

If you’re going for the M8 new, then your decision needs to come fast. The coupe has already been discontinued and removed from the configurator and I can’t imagine the GC and vert being that far behind it.

The 8 series interior is elegant and yes, nicer. My choice of the M5 over the M8 was a complicated one for a mix of reasons that were all reinforced by seeing the car in person and driving it. Weight wasn’t an issue because both cars are fatty’s.

[VR1]

I don’t really understand the comments about weight - this is a compliance car created to meet EU 0 emission zone requirements. The other alternative is to make it a full EV. The cars are so numb to dive anyways that I’m not sure if weight will make the car more interesting to drive in any real way.

[subterFUSE]

Originally Posted by VR1

I don’t really understand the comments about weight - this is a compliance car created to meet EU 0 emission zone requirements. The other alternative is to make it a full EV. The cars are so numb to dive anyways that I’m not sure if weight will make the car more interesting to drive in any real way.

EU regulations don't apply here. We have absolutely no reason to accept a car that has been handicapped by their misguided legislation. Hopefully the US sales are slow enough to give them pause about moving towards electrification before there is sufficient demand.

[NSX2M4]

Maybe I am dating myself here, but I think BMW's loyalty is lying on the wrong side of the future.

[BMWbiker]

Originally Posted by NSX2M4

Not to derail this thread, but wagons remind me of basketball shoes, and I love those. I have dozens of pairs of Jordan's but this is not a car I would actively seek. What I cannot wrap my mind around here, it that you track junkies here bitch all hell relentlessly about weight, and this, and that. But then they drop a wagon and you wet your panties?

For years, the performance Audis were the Avants. Think back to the iconic Quattro, and the RS2. I owned a B5 S4 Avant. With the exception of the RS6, they have let that tradition die in the U.S.

BMWs are not as well known for performance wagons, but they do exist.

If BMW offered the G21 M340i xdrive Touring in the U.S., I would own one today. Or the M340d xdrive Touring. (I’m not sure that I would have stretched my budget for the M3 Touring.) Instead, I own the next best thing, an M440i xdrive GC.

If nothing else, owning a wagon makes transporting the track tires and gear to the racetrack easier. Then it makes carrying other cargo easier IRL.

Either M5 is not a good fit with me. If nothing else, I have no provision to charge them where I live. But others will have great fun with them.

[subterFUSE]

The USA market for wagons was offset by the demand for SUVs. Between the American lust for larger vehicles, and government tax breaks that are given to businesses that purchase vehicles over 6000 lbs, the wagon became a shrinking niche market. It's too bad, because I abosolutely detest SUVs and won't own one... but I would do a wagon.

[brianeck]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

EU regulations don't apply here. We have absolutely no reason to accept a car that has been handicapped by their misguided legislation. Hopefully the US sales are slow enough to give them pause about moving towards electrification before there is sufficient demand.

Yeah this statement is basically the whole point. Crippling a car because of regulations that don't exist in this market, and then whining that we complain about when its still "pretty decent" despite its spaying/neutering. They can't have their cake and eat it to. US still leads the world in this segment of the luxury car market, we deserve a market specific product that is as good as it can be. The cars already have to be very different for crash standards and all that BS (so we're told, as it pertains to m3 wagons and importing European cars), so give our market segment a fully bespoke car without the euro BS since it has to be US spec anyway.

Its a lot of work and a lot of reward to service both markets. I really don't see any world where a 5000 pound car is less safe when traveling at high speeds than a 6000 pound car, for passengers and other humans alike. Crash barriers and guard rails are designed for cars, not trucks.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by brianeck

Yeah this statement is basically the whole point. Crippling a car because of regulations that don't exist in this market, and then whining that we complain about when its still "pretty decent" despite its spaying/neutering. They can't have their cake and eat it to. US still leads the world in this segment of the luxury car market, we deserve a market specific product that is as good as it can be. The cars already have to be very different for crash standards and all that BS (so we're told, as it pertains to m3 wagons and importing European cars), so give our market segment a fully bespoke car without the euro BS since it has to be US spec anyway.

Its a lot of work and a lot of reward to service both markets. I really don't see any world where a 5000 pound car is less safe when traveling at high speeds than a 6000 pound car, for passengers and other humans alike. Crash barriers and guard rails are designed for cars, not trucks.

Perhaps something like Porsche's T hybrid system would have met EU regulations while keeping the car reasonably interesting without much weight gain?

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by akkando

Perhaps something like Porsche's T hybrid system would have met EU regulations while keeping the car reasonably interesting without much weight gain?

why didn't Porsche put it in the panamera instead of the heavy PHEV setup they use? These companies have reasons for what they do, it's not random or on a whim.

[JFS007]

Saying that the M5 Sedan isn’t selling is a misrepresentation. If you do some digging and research, you’ll find that:
• Production and Deliveries: The latest generation of the M5 Sedan (G90) began production in July 2024, with deliveries starting towards the end of the year. It’s still early in its release cycle, so sales figures are just beginning to accumulate.
• Demand Exceeding Expectations: BMW initially projected that the sedan would account for two-thirds of M5 production. However, due to higher-than-anticipated demand for both the sedan and the Touring variant, production has been adjusted to a 50:50 split. This indicates that the sedan’s demand has met or exceeded BMW’s expectations.
• Market Reception: Reports indicate that demand for the M5 Sedan is robust, leading BMW to increase production to meet customer interest.

In summary, the claim that the M5 Sedan is not selling well doesn’t align with the available data. While it’s still early in the sales cycle, current indicators suggest that the M5 Sedan is performing in line with, if not surpassing, expectations.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by G(80)zuss

Serious question here fellas…..who is actually buying a g9x M5 in any form today?

Have one. Love it. Zero regrets.
And not sure where the hate’s coming from either, TBH.

Also, with the tariffs announced, if there are units on shop floors… they’ll be great value versus ones not yet landed.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by brianeck

All hell has been bitched countless times over the weight. Have you seen the other threads? My guess is that this car has appealed heavily to non-enthusiast/track market who otherwise would have bought other heavy ugly cars like x6m or xm.

Let me just be clear - I don't think the m5 is dumb and ugly - I just think many of its purchasers otherwise would have been perfectly comfortable in dumb, ugly, fast, heavy cars and now they have this.

I’ve had the E60 & F10 M5s in the past.
G9x makes loads of sense in my market where the zeitgeist holds that CO2 is an existential threat.
I’ve just over 5000km done and it’s a very entertaining car to drive. It’s an onion though… I’m still figuring things out and getting to grips with it. It behaves very differently depending on how you’ve it setup.
I think the naysayers will be proven wrong.

[N54sDUSTxi]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

BMW better get moving on releasing more Touring allocations instead of the same batch they released back in Dec/Jan. I feel like they shot themselves in the foot because people want the Touring but the limited allocations is giving greedy dealers a chance to mark them up one way or another.

Another fault on BMW is letting spy shots of the LCI 5 reveal it will be a massive update giving people pause if that comes out in a short 2 years given the M5 just came out.

Alan

Hah, good luck here. The reason tourings are so popular is largely due to BMW’s limited/strategic release & marketing of touring. For example, the M3/M5 tourings have been marketed in U.S. since 2003 when we got the e39 540i m sport for 1 or 2 yrs. Except we never got m3 or m5 tourings, which remained model after model. And they still hoe U.S. out on tourings today …even tho their 2nd home is in S. Carolina. A damn shame

[hb]

Originally Posted by brianeck

Yeah this statement is basically the whole point. Crippling a car because of regulations that don't exist in this market, and then whining that we complain about when its still "pretty decent" despite its spaying/neutering. They can't have their cake and eat it to. US still leads the world in this segment of the luxury car market, we deserve a market specific product that is as good as it can be. The cars already have to be very different for crash standards and all that BS (so we're told, as it pertains to m3 wagons and importing European cars), so give our market segment a fully bespoke car without the euro BS since it has to be US spec anyway.

Its a lot of work and a lot of reward to service both markets. I really don't see any world where a 5000 pound car is less safe when traveling at high speeds than a 6000 pound car, for passengers and other humans alike. Crash barriers and guard rails are designed for cars, not trucks.

People don't realize that many of these decisions are driven by either local BMW HQs or by dealers. In the case of the US, it's a combination of both. BMW goes to each market before a car is planned and asks what the projected volume is. So in the case of the M3 Touring, it was the U.S. dealers that didn't think there is a demand for it.

[iskysoma01]

I don’t know, the dealer I’m at sold 3 touring in a week. They were inventory cars. So I guess that means they take the allocation that could have been given to a customer?

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by iskysoma01

I don’t know, the dealer I’m at sold 3 touring in a week. They were inventory cars. So I guess that means they take the allocation that could have been given to a customer?

They must have done some trading. Most dealers only got 1 allocation and a handful (about 10) got two.