[06BMW325i]

About a month ago, I had an estimate to have my kitchen remodeled (remove porch to extend kitchen, new floors, new walls, countertops, cabinets etc). The workers come in, do their work and so far so good. Until last week, I noticed that the part of my roof is slightly collapsed after knocking out the porch to extend the kitchen. I believe they removed some wooden bars that run across the house and cut it when they were making the kitchen bigger. The cut wooden bars no longer provide enough support which is why the roofing sides are collapsing. Problem is the carpenter's do not want to admit that they made the damage. They claim sagging roof was already there before they started the construction and don't want to fix it. My concern is the extra cost to have this repaired. The carpenters obviously dont want to deal with this added cost that would be from their own pocket. Now the problem is they aren't showing up to finish their work in the kitchen. Any advice as to getting this resolved?

Thanks

[Freakazoid]

more than likely you're fucked...sorry. I'll be blunt, because you're going to have a lot of people coming in here giving you false hope.

unless they're a big establishment, i had almost EXACTLY the same thing happen to me. details were different, but in the end I was fucked.


Here's what you'll basically need to do though regardless.
1. Document well take pictures, get all contracts, etc.
2.Take them to small claims (this is easy).
3. They'll eventually show (although they might not).
4. Regardless, you will win, regardless if they show or not (assuming you did #1).
5. The judgement will be awarded to you, but you will have no easy way to collect on it.
6. More than likely they won't willingly pay. In order to GET them to pay, you have to pay even MORE money.
7. Assuming they're a small company, depending on their exact status, they can either declare bankruptcy or ignore the entire thing. Even if you sick the sheriff on them, or try to do whatever else.... you won't be able to garnish their wages...you won't be able to access their bank account....the most you can do is auction off their stuff.
However the shitty part about that is you can only auction stuff that's NOT BUSINESS RELATED and 100% in their name. So you can't auction off a car, a computer, or anything that they might be able to put in their wive's name.


for the little guys, it fucking SUCKS.... fucking bullshit.

I'm not telling you not to pursue, I'm just warning you not to get your hopes up

[schoy]

Notice of default. If continued non-action, make claim in small claims court (< $7,500 or, if licensed contractor, < $4,000). I'm assuming the cost to fix/finish work would not make filing a claim in "normal" court (and hiring a lawyer) much economic sense.

Edit: just saw the above reply. One additional thought: hopefully you used a bonded contractor so that even if the contractor doesn't pay, the surety bond issuer might.

[Mighty M]

What were the pay out terms? What amount to you have held back out of the total and what is the percentage of completion?

[lauer87]

Call Mike Holmes, he'll fix it...

[iBoost]

Shotgun.jpeg

[immiketoo]

Here is another consideration. If you don't pay them, they may be able to place a contractors lien on your property for non-payment. THAT's when things get really ugly. I worked a case on a fire restoration company that did that shit all the time. Screwed people over royally. The best thing you can do is find an attorney that is familiar withe your issue in your part of the world. Good preparation will serve you well. Good luck.

[Maestro]

As it was pointed out, there is not a whole lot you can do, and the contractors know this. It not unusually for contractors to bankrupt their companies to avoid situations like this especially if you go after them. They can easily bankrupt one company or business entity and create a new one tomorrow and be back up and running screwing some other individual. The courts or government usually do not care either unless this guys is ripping lots of people off all the time then maybe they will go after him but it does not fix your problem.

From the sounds of it, if the extended your kitchen and knocked out an outside wall and did not put a beam across the open you got a real serious problem the upstairs, if you have second floor will begin to sage into your first floor. Now if your place is only one floor and it is only the roof, the problem maybe not as bad, since you in CA and they do not get snow then you do not have to worry about added weight. However, being in earthquake country you run the risk the entire kitchen will collapse during an quake.

The question is did you get a permit to have this work done since a building inspector would not have let this go. It sounds like you did it under the table and maybe without any sort of plans.

There is nothing wrong with that, I do that all the time on my place, but I know what I am doing and only hire people which I get personal recommendations on and know there work.

If the contractor is not taking responsibility, you better have someone take a look it ASAP to determine if there are other issues and see what it is going to take to fix them. and write this off as a learning experience.

[number335]

Originally Posted by lauer87

Call Mike Holmes, he'll fix it...

This. Holmes on homes.

[Mighty M]

Blah, blah, blah, blah. You pay on percentage completion. That simple. And have a hold back for final completion.

If not = idiot.

Whatever.

[Freakazoid]

Originally Posted by Mighty M

Blah, blah, blah, blah. You pay on percentage completion. That simple. And have a hold back for final completion.

If not = idiot.

Whatever.

even if you do, you can still be screwed (like in my case) I didn't end up paying them a 1/4 of the final payment, but I still ended up losing money (courtesy of the amount of damages)

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Freakazoid

even if you do, you can still be screwed (like in my case) I didn't end up paying them a 1/4 of the final payment, but I still ended up losing money (courtesy of the amount of damages)

Yeah, this is true and this is why it is also important to make sure the contractor is insured and licensed, since you can also file a claim with their insurance carrier.

When I have had work done I usually request they break out material costs form labor costs. it pretty easy to know if they are padding material cost to make more profits. Also the hold back I use is the labor, they do not get the labor check until I agree the work is done. Also, I do not cut checks until material shows up at my house. So every time they buy and bring material and show me the receipt I cut them a check.

Many contractors do not like this method since most are living off the current job to pay for the last job they had. However, the good one who know how to manage their business and money will do this in a second, since they know their material cost are covered and they are motivated to get the job done quickly since the last check covers labor costs.

[Freakazoid]

Originally Posted by Maestro

Yeah, this is true and this is why it is also important to make sure the contractor is insured and licensed, since you can also file a claim with their insurance carrier.

When I have had work done I usually request they break out material costs form labor costs. it pretty easy to know if they are padding material cost to make more profits. Also the hold back I use is the labor, they do not get the labor check until I agree the work is done. Also, I do not cut checks until material shows up at my house. So every time they buy and bring material and show me the receipt I cut them a check.

Many contractors do not like this method since most are living off the current job to pay for the last job they had. However, the good one who know how to manage their business and money will do this in a second, since they know their material cost are covered and they are motivated to get the job done quickly since the last check covers labor costs.

good points across the board, stuff that I've realized I'll be doing going forward.

Learned alot from my fucktards

[06BMW325i]

Update:

Thanks for the suggestions guys. In terms of paying the carpenter, I have paid him weekly in terms of completion. Also for the materials, we went to Home Depot together when they were purchased to ensure my money was going toward materials for the house. Let's say, the whole project was $20,000, and 8,000 to materials and the remaining 12,000 would be spread out as the work was completed as I didn't wanna give 20 grand up front and have him work for 1 week then never show up, to minimize the loss from getting screwed over.

Anyways, after this thread was started the workers came back a couple days later and did some more work. The contractor told me he will be on vacation during the christmas and new years holiday and will be back 1 week after. He said maybe 2 more weeks of work and everything will be put together and the building inspector can go over it for approval. i got a call last week from his worker and he said his boss will be on vacation for 2 more weeks in guatemala. Well as of today, Jan. 30, almost 3 weeks of promised date he will return, he has not showed up/ continued any of his work. Also he has not been answering calls from me. In addition, as of today, one of his 4 workers gave me a call and told me that the contractor, their boss, has failed to pay him his weekly cut from a month ago and at the same time hasn't paid any of the other workers their share. They think he is screwing them over in addition to me. Also, the contractor told his worker that he was still on vacation in guatemala, when yesterday they saw him playing soccer at a tournament! Also the worker told me that the contractor has also scammed another client, as he collected money for a garage build, but never finished it.

Well, right now the work is almost 70% completed, and the damage should not be too difficult to repair... Basically, the damage will be fixed by the carpenters but the other problem is the porch and kitchen are not finished yet. Structure is up, but plumbing and electric are not complete. Also if, according to you all, it may be difficult to recoup my losses/ have the work completed, I will resort to have another company finish the work. As for the materials, they have already been ordered at Home Depot and need to be picked up. Hopefully the contractor didnt pick them up already and have them delivered to a different work site so they can be used!



What do you guys think? I'm having doubts that this guy is coming back. According to him, his company is licensed and bonded, according to the paperwork he has given me, etc. But now Im having trouble scooping up info on this company. Perhaps he misrepresented himself and this company and is not even licensed and insured. who knows...

[bmwmthree]

How did you pay? You should've paid for the materials with a credit card.

The contractor sounds like a scumbag. If you go to small claims court and win and he won't pay, can't you just get a collections agency to go after him (It's better to pay a little and get something than getting nothing)?

You could also pay some "friends" to pay him a visit to see why he isn't showing up and they could even give him an excuse to not show up (*cough* broken legs *cough*).

[06BMW325i]

Originally Posted by bmwmthree

How did you pay? You should've paid for the materials with a credit card.

The contractor sounds like a scumbag. If you go to small claims court and win and he won't pay, can't you just get a collections agency to go after him (It's better to pay a little and get something than getting nothing)?

You could also pay some "friends" to pay him a visit to see why he isn't showing up and they could even give him an excuse to not show up (*cough* broken legs *cough*).

For the materials, I paid through my credit card, so hopefully I have a bit of protection. I wanted to play it safe in the beginning, so I told him I would go with him to Home Depot to purchase the big/expensive materials. For the small tidbits, he has gone to Home depot by himself and would just give me a call and I would provide the CC and he would bring the small materials home and provide me a copy with the receipt. I would make sure he gets materials relating to the work to be done at my house.

For the labor, Ive paid him through check. I haven't mentioned this, but what really bothered me was his lack of reliability in doing the work. He has told me he would be at my house at 8am everyday except weekends, but on occasion he would not show up hours late (11am) or not show up at all. Problem is I have to work with him and have someone present at my house to make sure someones watching him and the workers. Really pisses me off when a brother in law travels 45 mins and shows up at my house early in the morning and this guy ends up not showing up for the day. ive even talked to him about it as Im already irritated since he damaged the roof part of my house and he has the nerve to raise his voice at me, and say "you have to work around me." Even told him Im paying him yet the work is not being completed as scheduled. Was supposed to be done by xmas btw. I would love to beat the shit out of this f*cker. One solid punch and it's over, but Ive tried to control myself, as its not worth it.

Even if I have to pay a lawyer to get this straightened out, I think its worth it. Gotta teach this guy a lesson..His bullsh!t from the beginning really angers me, and I don't want him doing this to others in the future.. sighhh

[bmwmthree]

Originally Posted by 06BMW325i

For the materials, I paid through my credit card, so hopefully I have a bit of protection. I wanted to play it safe in the beginning, so I told him I would go with him to Home Depot to purchase the big/expensive materials. For the small tidbits, he has gone to Home depot by himself and would just give me a call and I would provide the CC and he would bring the small materials home and provide me a copy with the receipt. I would make sure he gets materials relating to the work to be done at my house.

For the labor, Ive paid him through check. I haven't mentioned this, but what really bothered me was his lack of reliability in doing the work. He has told me he would be at my house at 8am everyday except weekends, but on occasion he would not show up hours late (11am) or not show up at all. Problem is I have to work with him and have someone present at my house to make sure someones watching him and the workers. Really pisses me off when a brother in law travels 45 mins and shows up at my house early in the morning and this guy ends up not showing up for the day. ive even talked to him about it as Im already irritated since he damaged the roof part of my house and he has the nerve to raise his voice at me, and say "you have to work around me." Even told him Im paying him yet the work is not being completed as scheduled. Was supposed to be done by xmas btw. I would love to beat the shit out of this f*cker. One solid punch and it's over, but Ive tried to control myself, as its not worth it.

Even if I have to pay a lawyer to get this straightened out, I think its worth it. Gotta teach this guy a lesson..His bullsh!t from the beginning really angers me, and I don't want him doing this to others in the future.. sighhh

Well, you should remember for the future to take pictures of the area they're working in from before they start working. Also, try to stick with someone reliable that you've been referred to or at least has good reviews.

And is the guy bonded? Someone asked that before but I don't think you answered that.

Good luck!

[CollinsE90]

Lawyer wont do anything, they'll file bankruptcy and get away squeaky clean. Unless its a major scam of A LOT of money, they will file and change the business name.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

Lawyer wont do anything, they'll file bankruptcy and get away squeaky clean. Unless its a major scam of A LOT of money, they will file and change the business name.

I see you can read...

Originally Posted by Maestro

As it was pointed out, there is not a whole lot you can do, and the contractors know this. It not unusually for contractors to bankrupt their companies to avoid situations like this especially if you go after them. They can easily bankrupt one company or business entity and create a new one tomorrow and be back up and running screwing some other individual. The courts or government usually do not care either unless this guys is ripping lots of people off all the time then maybe they will go after him but it does not fix your problem.

[CollinsE90]

Originally Posted by BTM

I see you can read...

I was reiterating due to the fact that even though someone has already mentioned it, the OP is still pursuing a lawyer and wanted to know opinions.

[BTM]

OP is this property in CA or IL? If IL, PM me

[Freakazoid]

hiring a collection agency is something I never thought about doing myself before. I'm actually going to pursue this avenue myself and see how that turns out.

I never thought to privately hire a collection agency....