[Cos270]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Exactly, if the consumer doesn't want to buy a product how will punishing the manufacture/dealer solve the problem?

The intent is to make it very difficult (financially) for customers to purchase and manufacturers to produce anything other than an EV. Eventually we will start seeing massive taxes or other fines for owning and operating gas-powered vehicles. It will be interesting to see if it has the intended effect of getting people into EVs. I doubt governments and regulators truly understand how financially burdened most in this country (and others around the world) are.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Cos270

The intent is to make it very difficult (financially) for customers to purchase and manufacturers to produce anything other than an EV. Eventually we will start seeing massive taxes or other fines for owning and operating gas-powered vehicles. It will be interesting to see if it has the intended effect of getting people into EVs. I doubt governments and regulators truly understand how financially burdened most in this country (and other around the world) are.

The gubments are on another planet when they leave their public speaking platforms, our ones don't even know what a spark plug is

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Cos270

The intent is to make it very difficult (financially) for customers to purchase and manufacturers to produce anything other than an EV. Eventually we will start seeing massive taxes or other fines for owning and operating gas-powered vehicles. It will be interesting to see if it has the intended effect of getting people into EVs. I doubt governments and regulators truly understand how financially burdened most in this country (and other around the world) are.

Which is an indication of extremely poor leadership. Sadly.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

The gubments are on another planet when they leave their public speaking platforms, our ones don't even know what a spark plug is

The planet they are from is imaginary and made of make-believe...

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Cos270

The intent is to make it very difficult (financially) for customer to purchase and manufacturer to produce anything other than an EV. Eventually we will start seeing massive taxes or other fines for owning operating gas powered vehicles. Will be interesting to see if it has the intended effect of getting people into EVs. I doubt governments and regulators truly understand how financially burdened most in this country are.

I’m fairly certainly they know, all the more reason to squeeze more out of the common family.

Being middle class is expensive…

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

It will be that way for a while. And because elon has dropped the price on his models, jesus christ the dude is fucking smart so whatever small market other car makers have with their EV at their lower price point, here comes elon to the rescue by offering BETTER EV's at their lower price point as well LOL.

Tesla is lowering prices because they have competition to deal with now. What makes any Tesla a "BETTER EV" than the available competition?

[ggunn9]

Yes. I do still plan to get an EV. I have a reservation for a 2024 Chevy Blazer SS EV.

I hate buying premium gas. I love my BMW and the power but not the gas prices. I hate that the gas prices change daily. It feels like someone in the middle east could fart and the gas prices go up.

I have already installed an EV charger at my home.

Georgia (USA) gives provides a rebate of $250 for installing an EV charger and they have a rebate for night time charging the EV.

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by ggunn9

Yes. I do still plan to get an EV. I have a reservation for a 2024 Chevy Blazer SS EV.

I hate buying premium gas. I love my BMW and the power but not the gas prices. I hate that the gas prices change daily. It feels like someone in the middle east could fart and the gas prices go up.

I have already installed an EV charger at my home.

Georgia (USA) gives provides a rebate of $250 for installing an EV charger and they have a rebate for night time charging the EV.

What makes you think energy prices will not change on a daily basis moving forward? I’m shocked so many people are naive enough to think this cheap electricity will continue if more people start driving EVs.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Cos270

What makes you think energy prices will not change on a daily basis moving forward? I’m shocked so many people are naive enough to think this cheap electricity will continue if more people start driving EVs.

Common sense dictates that as more people switch to EV's and in northern climates switch away from fossil fuel home heating the need to produce/deliver increasing amounts of electricity will drive the prices up. Further as more people move to EV's government will lose tax revenue at the pumps. Government loves their taxes, so that loss will have to be made up and I suspect electricity will be their target.

[HerkHealer]

I've never driven, nor ridden in an EV, but would love to take a ride in this beast.
Skip to 4:20 for the good stuff ( i bet Top Gear did that on purpose )

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

Tesla is lowering prices because they have competition to deal with now. What makes any Tesla a "BETTER EV" than the available competition?

Range, performance and the network for its price point.

Other car makers have 2 of the 3, never all 3.

[ggunn9]

Originally Posted by Cos270

What makes you think energy prices will not change on a daily basis moving forward? I’m shocked so many people are naive enough to think this cheap electricity will continue if more people start driving EVs.

As long as people like you continue to hate EV's the majority will stay away and the cost to drive them can maintain. The cost of electricity will never (should never) approach that of the cost of gas. My state is offering $0.09 per kwh That would be $9.00 to charge a 100kwh battery and drive about 300 miles.

I don't understand why people hate EV's so much. I assume it was the same way when gas cars came around.

I am not the guy thinking I will save the planet in my Pruis. I simply want the speed and torque of an EV and if I can save money by not buying gas that is a bonus.

[ggunn9]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Common sense dictates that as more people switch to EV's and in northern climates switch away from fossil fuel home heating the need to produce/deliver increasing amounts of electricity will drive the prices up. Further as more people move to EV's government will lose tax revenue at the pumps. Government loves their taxes, so that loss will have to be made up and I suspect electricity will be their target.

Smart comments here. I agree the Govt will want it taxes. Some states are putting a tax on the EV registration/tag. I get it the are losing the $0.20-$0.40 per gallon tax. They want it from somewhere.

This is where I am happy folks hate on EV's. You stay in the gas car and let me get a few years ahead to save a few dollars and enjoy the EV HP and torque.

[Sedoy]

That's true, but let's not forget that internal combustion engines can only convert around 28% of fuel energy into kinetic energy, while EVs are much more efficient, achieving around 80% efficiency (from the grid including charging losses) in converting chemical battery energy to kinetic energy. Therefore, a more accurate comparison in terms of actual work being done (motion) would be approximately 33.5 cents of gasoline compared to 18.9 cents for EVs.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

What if I told you gasoline is around 9.38 cents per kWh and electricity is around 15.1 cents per kWh. National averages for both forms of energy. Maybe you'd find a more efficient way to use gasoline?

[ggunn9]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

What if I told you gasoline is around 9.38 cents per kWh and electricity is around 15.1 cents per kWh. National averages for both forms of energy. Maybe you'd find a more efficient way to use gasoline?

My state is offering $0.09 per kwh That would be $9.00 to charge a 100kwh battery and drive about 300 miles.

Also, I changed the spark plugs ($100.00) and cleaned the air filter on my X5 this weekend. Next weekend I am doing the transmission fluid($250.00). I added a fuel system cleaner.($20.00) All things I wont have to do with an EV. I am not saying EV's are the solution, but I am willing to try them. I could be wrong in two years I could be completely against EV's, but I will be able to say I know what I am talking about I had an EV. Or I could be saying I'll never buy an ICE vehicle.

Why are people so against something they have never tried? That could be beneficial to them.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

But since most of the BEV mandate advocates here in this thread state that the best thing about BEV is never having to go to the gas station and you leave home every morning with a full "tank" (i.e. SOC), then why does the charging network matter? It shouldn't.

BUT in reality, range and recharge rate are the only thing that matters to the general automotive buyer. Performance (acceleration) doesn't matter because most of the US coasts are packed full of slow moving traffic. So recharging on a road trip is the issue. Most ICE owners don't want to wait 20 - 45 minutes to get an 80% full tank and plan their trip around chargers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, "it's going to get better". But when, how, and how much is it going to cost?

It’s 25 minutes or so to get to 80% TODAY.

Are you really saying 13 years from now this won’t improve?

It seems that you anti ev people DONT WANT it to improve which is odd.

If this was a vote on whether or not you guys want this to happen then that’s a different story.

Fact is, it’s going to happen so why not patiently wait for this technology to improve? Because it will.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by ggunn9

My state is offering $0.09 per kwh That would be $9.00 to charge a 100kwh battery and drive about 300 miles.

Also, I changed the spark plugs ($100.00) and cleaned the air filter on my X5 this weekend. Next weekend I am doing the transmission fluid($250.00). I added a fuel system cleaner.($20.00) All things I wont have to do with an EV. I am not saying EV's are the solution, but I am willing to try them. I could be wrong in two years I could be completely against EV's, but I will be able to say I know what I am talking about I had an EV. Or I could be saying I'll never buy an ICE vehicle.

Why are people so against something they have never tried? That could be beneficial to them.

For me it is $0.08 and i have an 82kw battery pack.

It's literally 7 bucks to charge my car. A little more than double if i visit a supercharger.

Meanwhile it cost a little over 80 bucks to put 93 in both my other cars.

[Patton250]

Toyota for the win. Well worth watching.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Toyota for the win. Well worth watching.

Toyota is the only one that really gets it right now. The Germans automakers are starting to come around as well. Dumb American automakers will eventually follow as well, but they won't change until California comes back to earth or the other states push them back. I could see CA pushing and pushing for electric, but they'll eventually fold as well.

The automotive future is bright, but it won't be fully electric. It will be a mix of everything. You can't put all your eggs in one basket. It simply won't work. There is still a ton of untapped efficiency left in ICE vehicles.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Toyota is the only that really gets it right now. The Germans automakers are starting to come around as well. Dumb American automakers will eventually follow-up as well. The automotive future is bright, but it won't be fully electric. It will be a mix of everything. You can't put all your eggs in one basket. It simply won't work.

I agree. Well said.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

That's true, but let's not forget that internal combustion engines can only convert around 28% of fuel energy into kinetic energy, while EVs are much more efficient, achieving around 80% efficiency (from the grid including charging losses) in converting chemical battery energy to kinetic energy. Therefore, a more accurate comparison in terms of actual work being done (motion) would be approximately 33.5 cents of gasoline compared to 18.9 cents for EVs.

I agree. Well said.

It will only improve over time. You look at the last 10 years and where EV's are today.

Can you imagine the next 10 years? It's going to be awesome.

Quick battery swap stations. Faster charging times. More technology. Everyone will be driving around in 10 second EV's!

This is going to be great! Jetsons here we come!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

That's true, but let's not forget that internal combustion engines can only convert around 28% of fuel energy into kinetic energy, while EVs are much more efficient, achieving around 80% efficiency (from the grid including charging losses) in converting chemical battery energy to kinetic energy. Therefore, a more accurate comparison in terms of actual work being done (motion) would be approximately 33.5 cents of gasoline compared to 18.9 cents for EVs.

Correct, but that's an internal combustion engine that needs a wide powerband and connected to a transmission so it can offer a wide variety of speeds. So the engine loses efficiency thru heat loss and transmission losses.

Take the IC engine out of the mechanical effort to generate propulsion and make the engine differently. Design it to lose less heat, tune it for max power at a specific RPM and have it connected to just an on-board electrical generator. Make the engine much lighter out of higher temperature-tolerant materials like ceramic. Add in a small battery for peak energy requirements and excess load capture. Up the efficiency of the chemical combustion process and decrease the parasitic loss of moving electricity over hundreds of miles and several transformer stepdowns/stepups to charge a huge, heavy battery. Have the electicty move thru wires for just a few feet with virtually zero energy loss. THAT system is 80% efficient too, possibly more efficient.

That series hybrid vehicle still uses gasoline, or diesel, or bio-fuel diesel; it doesn't disrupt the petrochemical industry and doesn't disrupt the electrical energy grid, and reduces mining pollution and the conflict minerals trade. It keeps electricity, jet fuel, heating oil, gasoline, and diesel prices in check. Such a vehicle vastly extends the Earth's remaining oil reserves (if you believe they are finite).

THAT is the smart approach and easily accomplished before 2035...