[Esteban]

Originally Posted by wdb

'Rocky' is the only decent movie Sylvester Stallone ever made.

I swore off any and all Stallone movies after suffering through 'Cliffhanger'. I must have been bored the other night and watched 'Rambo: Last Blood'. It was horrible.

Here's a totally opposite opinion: I really liked Cliffhanger.

Not a big fan of Sly Stallone. Didn't much like the Rocky movies.

Thought his best work was in Cop Land.

[tranquility]

Ok, here's another take and I kinda alluded to it in another thread: Stallone's not that bad of an actor: half the guy's face is frozen, give him a break. He's been in some stinkers though for sure, esp the world record for me in knowing that I'm about to watch a horrible movie: just SECONDS into 'Driven', I knew that my ~2h was going to be wasted - never before or since have I had such a gut-sure feeling about entertainment haha.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Ok, here's another take and I kinda alluded to it in another thread: Stallone's not that bad of an actor: half the guy's face is frozen, give him a break. He's been in some stinkers though for sure, esp the world record for me in knowing that I'm about to watch a horrible movie: just SECONDS into 'Driven', I knew that my ~2h was going to be wasted - never before or since have I had such a gut-sure feeling about entertainment haha.

Demolition Man was a fun ride.

[Esteban]

^^ I think we're in the wrong thread. lol

[ErikJ1]

Any red blooded American should be able to purchase a M16A4.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I'm sort of in the opposite side of this... I've owned nothing but automatic cars - and my G80 on order is going to be a 6MT. The A/T G80 is MUCH faster and the zf 8spd is an incredible transmission, but I feel like we're at this weird point where power and speed are seeing significantly diminishing returns in terms of fun.

This brings me to my biggest unpopular opinion of probably the last 5 years:

We are at a point where more power and speed is not synonymous with more fun to drive. It gets old after a while. Everyone comparing 0-60 or 1/4 mile times is missing the point of driving to begin with - which is, for enthusiasts, supposed to be fun. If all we do is argue about spreadsheet numbers, that's exactly what automakers will give us - dull, soulless, and completely numb cars which are blisteringly quick in a straight line (i.e. EVs).

I'll give the opposite of this... I had an M2 Competition... a very very fun car in every situation and offered a lot of thrills and emotion... sold it after 3 years because frankly that's about all it did... it didn't perform well under almost any situation... it was twitchy, always had traction problems and wanted to go sideways, the suspension was bouncy as hell and it was still somehow rated as one of the best sports GTs of the last 10 years... albeit I am almost certain most decent sports cars that are cheaper would beat it around a track because again, it didn't perform well anywhere... on an autox it was too twitchy, on a road course it wasn't stable and it wasn't fast enough in any drag race.

IMHO - the appropriate answer to this is something like a G80 COMP which is fun enough, fast enough but also performs like an absolute monster...

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by Esteban

^^ I think we're in the wrong thread. lol

Are we though? You know I claimed that Sly is NOT a bad actor, right?

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I'll give the opposite of this... I had an M2 Competition... a very very fun car in every situation and offered a lot of thrills and emotion... sold it after 3 years because frankly that's about all it did... it didn't perform well under almost any situation... it was twitchy, always had traction problems and wanted to go sideways, the suspension was bouncy as hell and it was still somehow rated as one of the best sports GTs of the last 10 years... albeit I am almost certain most decent sports cars that are cheaper would beat it around a track because again, it didn't perform well anywhere... on an autox it was too twitchy, on a road course it wasn't stable and it wasn't fast enough in any drag race.

IMHO - the appropriate answer to this is something like a G80 COMP which is fun enough, fast enough but also performs like an absolute monster...

I'm confused... you're saying it was a lot of fun but because it didn't set good lap times you sold it? So you're trading some fun for better times?

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I'm confused... you're saying it was a lot of fun but because it didn't set good lap times you sold it? So you're trading some fun for better times?

well ultimately I sold it because I needed an SUV to help around my house...

BUT... in essence you are correct... I am looking for FUN and Capability... the M2 can only offer the former. If I was getting back into it... M3C X all the way... it has everything you could want, is fun and performs like a monster when you need it... aka all the time. It definitely doesn't take away much feeling... especially not for me.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by ASAP

well ultimately I sold it because I needed an SUV to help around my house...

BUT... in essence you are correct... I am looking for FUN and Capability... the M2 can only offer the former. If I was getting back into it... M3C X all the way... it has everything you could want, is fun and performs like a monster when you need it... aka all the time. It definitely doesn't take away much feeling... especially not for me.

I guess it just depends on what the priority is. For me, I won't be tracking it, so I'd like to prioritize fun to drive. I'll gladly give up some performance if it means a more fun and engaging car. Which is why I went for the 6MT M3 over the comp. My point was more centered around cars which offer a ton of performance but trade driver engagement.... sort of a, yeah this is moving insanely quick but it feels too clinical and emotionless (i.e. a Tesla Plaid).

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I guess it just depends on what the priority is. For me, I won't be tracking it, so I'd like to prioritize fun to drive. I'll gladly give up some performance if it means a more fun and engaging car. Which is why I went for the 6MT M3 over the comp. My point was more centered around cars which offer a ton of performance but trade driver engagement.... sort of a, yeah this is moving insanely quick but it feels too clinical and emotionless (i.e. a Tesla Plaid).

This is why someday I wanna get a MX-5 RF, it's pretty ideal; I personally don't see the pt of getting a 600hp+ monster strictly for the public road.

[eluded]

This is the Cowboys year

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I guess it just depends on what the priority is. For me, I won't be tracking it, so I'd like to prioritize fun to drive. I'll gladly give up some performance if it means a more fun and engaging car. Which is why I went for the 6MT M3 over the comp. My point was more centered around cars which offer a ton of performance but trade driver engagement.... sort of a, yeah this is moving insanely quick but it feels too clinical and emotionless (i.e. a Tesla Plaid).

I don't really ever track my cars either... in fact I have only done it a few times... however, I can confirm that solid track performance will equal strong street performance... the performance translates over.

Feel is debatable and ultimately it comes down to people's preferences like you said... I think the G80 is a sweet spot where it is heavier and larger but it offers just enough feel, my only issue with the 6mt is that you lose far more in performance than you gain in manual engagement. When you drive the car, it becomes obvious it wasn't meant to be a 6mt vehicle... BMW hasn't done much development in that department for a long time... maybe that's why the base m3's and m4's are available often... the comps are harder to get and the xdrive comps are the absolute hardest.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by ASAP

maybe that's why the base m3's and m4's are available often... the comps are harder to get and the xdrive comps are the absolute hardest.

As someone who has obsessively lived the allocation hunt everyday for 6 months for a G80, if you're talking about getting an allocation for a base vs comp vs comp xdrive, I can tell you that isn't true. Allocations are trim agnostic. One is not easier to get than the other.

Regardless, this is a subjective matter. I've driven the comp xdrive, and on the street, it didn't feel different enough from my m340i to justify the price premium IMO. Yes it was faster (in the higher, illegal speeds, not really in the lower, road legal speeds), yes it handled significantly better, but at the end of the day to me I felt it was more of the same, just dialed up. The 6MT on the other hand introduces a completely new dynamic from my m340i. I know have a car that, compared to my m340i, is still more powerful with more torque despite being base, handles significantly better than the m340i, is actually slightly lighter, and I get to row my own gears.

This is still besides the point. I'm talking specifically about cars which trade engagement for the ability to push spreadsheet 0-60 numbers. Automakers are chasing that because it's marketable... It's a quick metric to compare vehicles. I don't think the G80 qualifies because, as you said, it still offers good feel and engagement. But I think it's important to point out that all out speed is not synonymous with fun to drive.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by eluded

This is the Cowboys year

I'll raise ya:

this is the Leafs' year!










...ok, for winning at least 1 Round.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by tranquility

This is why someday I wanna get a MX-5 RF, it's pretty ideal; I personally don't see the pt of getting a 600hp+ monster strictly for the public road.

I got over high HP street cars years ago. But then again I also had a sport bike in college. Probably why I've owned 3 Miata's and I'm on my 2nd BRZ now.

So outside of the super exotics and expensive EVs, everything is relatively slow compared to a liter bike.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

If he's a genuine car guy, he won't even understand your very logical point. I love car guys!!

Gotta love The True Scotman's Fallacy.

[pikkagtr]

Tom Cruise is the best actor of his generation
Lebron James is not a top 10 player of all time
People who think IPA taste good are the ones who love to chew and swallow Tylenol without water
Messi has surpassed all greats and became the GOAT after winning the world cup
I'm convinced BMW no longer makes any M cars
The Miata is highly overated

Flame suit on

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

As someone who has obsessively lived the allocation hunt everyday for 6 months for a G80, if you're talking about getting an allocation for a base vs comp vs comp xdrive, I can tell you that isn't true. Allocations are trim agnostic. One is not easier to get than the other.

Regardless, this is a subjective matter. I've driven the comp xdrive, and on the street, it didn't feel different enough from my m340i to justify the price premium IMO. Yes it was faster (in the higher, illegal speeds, not really in the lower, road legal speeds), yes it handled significantly better, but at the end of the day to me I felt it was more of the same, just dialed up. The 6MT on the other hand introduces a completely new dynamic from my m340i. I know have a car that, compared to my m340i, is still more powerful with more torque despite being base, handles significantly better than the m340i, is actually slightly lighter, and I get to row my own gears.

This is still besides the point. I'm talking specifically about cars which trade engagement for the ability to push spreadsheet 0-60 numbers. Automakers are chasing that because it's marketable... It's a quick metric to compare vehicles. I don't think the G80 qualifies because, as you said, it still offers good feel and engagement. But I think it's important to point out that all out speed is not synonymous with fun to drive.

I think that's because the 340i's have gotten a good bit better with standard LSDs, more power etc and the M's while better, are not DRASTICALLY better... as far as feel, i think they do feel different.. the 340i is just softer.

I will add one other thing - I sat in an M3 Jahre X the other day and they wanted 100K for it with a 10k markup. My controversial opinion is that this car is worth at best 80K... it feels like a gussied up 3 series which is what an M3 always was... but it was never this high priced. I think a lot of people will be upside down in these cars soon when the production catches up. I think a G80 Xdrive at 75k...i.e a base model with a 6% discount is a good deal... otherwise, the price is insane imho.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I got over high HP street cars years ago. But then again I also had a sport bike in college. Probably why I've owned 3 Miata's and I'm on my 2nd BRZ now.

So outside of the super exotics and expensive EVs, everything is relatively slow compared to a liter bike.

Yup, you know what's up.

Exactly, virtually everything pales to superbikes, and, nowadays...EV grocery getters lol. That's why I always subscribed to handling as the main criterion for sportscars. Those 0-60 fanboys are DONE, they got nothing left when even a Macca loses to some hideously overweight EV commuter.

[hubbahubba]

Going to the movies sucks.
Tommy's and What-A-Burger are better than in n out.
Dasani is delicious.
Tomatoes and mushrooms are disgusting.
Bourbon and Rye are better than Scotch and Tequila.
Coors Light is delicious and refreshing.
As said above, IPA's are not good... (At least there are a few of us.)

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

Going to the movies sucks.
Tommy's and What-A-Burger are better than in n out.
Dasani is delicious.
Tomatoes and mushrooms are disgusting.
Bourbon and Rye are better than Scotch and Tequila.
Coors Light is delicious and refreshing.
As said above, IPA's are not good... (At least there are a few of us.)

I agree with all of that, except tomatoes and mushrooms. I also feel you cheated a bit going bourbon and rye vs scotch and tequila. I mean bourbon and rye are very similar... wtf does tequila have to do with scotch? However since you threw in tequila with the scotch I have to agree, because tequila is the foulest liquor ever made. I dunno how people drink that crap, it literally tastes like vomit.