[335fourdoor]

Originally Posted by Goodfella69

whats the torque on this s4??

i believe its 325 pounds of torque.

[cinshirmad]

bruhm BMW

[footie]

Originally Posted by mrad01

That would be good! Then you will realise that the Skoda/VW/Audi S4 is actually just another incorrectly engineered car like all Skoda/VW/Audis.

Just to add a little balance to this, Top Gear magazine just completed a review of the Audi S4, BMW M335 and Merc Csomething...

Here is the final results and finishing paragraph:

1. BMW 335i
2. Audi S4
3. Merc Csomething...who cares

"The S4 didn't win. Dynamically it is a throwback to the previous model, which also felt like each of the four wheels didn't know where the others were going - and the body had another idea altogether. Push any of this versions many buttons and you still get a variation on ordinary. Bring on the RS4. Whatever it costs, it will be better value than this."

This is absolutely a typical Skoda/VW/Audi summary.

No matter what a Skoda/VW/Audi looks like from the outside (and I will admit, some do look hot) that initial "wow" goes away once I get into the tacky interior (those without any design sense use the word luxury) and then I give it back after I (once again) realise I have been fooled by a good looking car with no tactile driver's feedback and a cheezy "buttons everywhere" and "stick leather here, nice shiny bit there" interior which really is terrible to operate.

The best thing you can do is go to a driver comparison day. Get into the Skoda/VW/Audi first and drive it around - and then immediately get into a BMW. I have not seen one person yet who wants to get back into the Skoda/VW/Audi.

When I see an Audi less than a RS model with someone trying to drive fast - the words "OMG, clueless" enter my head. And then after meeting the driver - that's generally true.

I look forward to your "BMW fanboy", "Car snob", "You have no idea" etc etc flames. Already heard them before. All I ask is people THINK rather than go "ooooooh, that's nice looking. My mates will think I'm neato if I turn up in this!"


Just to finish off, here is another quote from Top Gear Magazine:
"The S4's steering is on Valium and about to nod off compared to the BMW it becomes imprecise and shakes itself senseless through choppy bends"

Very entertaining read this. Well it sure made my laugh.

One could easily say the exact same thing if they stepped from a Porsche/Lotus and into a BMW. But does that make the BMW any less valid a choice?

Steering feel is highly over-rated in a production car, it's definitely a necessity in a racing car because you are continuously driving on the limit of adhesion and on tracks which make even the best roads feel dog rough. On a everyday driver only that's really needed is a steering that doesn't buck at you when the surface is awful as is the case with most back roads, you also want a steering that doesn't constantly need adjusting when travelling at high speeds. All of these above requirements the Audi and BMW setups meet but the only difference is that the BMW system offers a bit more feel and this has more to do with the lack of drive going to the front wheels and the less weight over them.

I have owned both an S5 and M3, and have driven the S4 extensively, I can tell you that the M3 doesn't offer a dramatic improvement over either Audi and definitely no where near the difference one would notice driving a Porsche.

This comment from Topgear "The S4's steering is on Valium and about to nod off compared to the BMW it becomes imprecise and shakes itself senseless through choppy bends" is so much BS it's laughable.

P.S.
There no point in commenting about the rest of your post because it's neither objective to anything other than BMW products or factual.

I only wished I had seen this post at the beginning because I would have commented on it much earlier.

[blue2fire]

This is the deal from a layman:

The S4 is cheaper, faster, safer and more good looking. Looks like a foregone conclusion.

I would not put up with my BMW dealer when i finally replace my 3 Series, we dont live on a racetrack and 7/10ths is fine for me in a saloon.

[dmz]

I don't know how to put this in layman's term. But the S4 is NOT cheaper than a comparably equipped 335i.

Originally Posted by blue2fire

This is the deal from a layman:

The S4 is cheaper, faster, safer and more good looking. Looks like a foregone conclusion.

I would not put up with my BMW dealer when i finally replace my 3 Series, we dont live on a racetrack and 7/10ths is fine for me in a saloon.

[blue2fire]

Originally Posted by dmz

I don't know how to put this in layman's term. But the S4 is NOT cheaper than a comparably equipped 335i.

Try building a 335xi with leather, comparably sized wheels and the sport package*

Edit: I think the 335xi will need the M-Tech package for it to be a strictly apples to apples comparo. That will actually make it much more expensive.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by dmz

I don't know how to put this in layman's term. But the S4 is NOT cheaper than a comparably equipped 335i.

Yes actually it is if you add all the comparable options, to include the x.

Even if you don't, it's still so damn close.

[footie]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

Yes actually it is if you add all the comparable options, to include the x.

Even if you don't, it's still so damn close.

And if you add 'x-drive' to the 335i than is becomes a much inferior car. The simple answer in layman's terms is that if you want all wheel drive with a bit of quality there's only one option and that's an Audi quattro.

[SouthCali335]

Originally Posted by footie

And if you add 'x-drive' to the 335i than is becomes a much inferior car. The simple answer in layman's terms is that if you want all wheel drive with a bit of quality there's only one option and that's an Audi quattro.

Or a Subaru!

[dmz]

Why the f** would I want the x? The BMW AWD is for all weather capability not performance driving. The non x 335i with the M-Tech package is the performance trim which is comparable to the S4. Or should I start comparing the A4 2.0T to the 335i because they both have a turbo engine?

Originally Posted by blue2fire

Try building a 335xi with leather, comparably sized wheels and the sport package*

Edit: I think the 335xi will need the M-Tech package for it to be a strictly apples to apples comparo. That will actually make it much more expensive.

[blue2fire]

Originally Posted by dmz

Why the f** would I want the x? The BMW AWD is for all weather capability not performance driving. The non x 335i with the M-Tech package is the performance trim which is comparable to the S4. Or should I start comparing the A4 2.0T to the 335i because they both have a turbo engine?

Okay, i don't consider what you would want of much relevance. Speaking generally, the Audi costs less when you equip the 335 to the most similar spec.

There is no point in trying to find anything good about the 335 in this comparison, it is old, slow and just general compared to the S4's S designation that most people would undoubtedly like (and for depreciation's sake).

EDIT: The Audi turns out to be only a few hundred dollars more when compared to the spec of your "preference".

[dmz]

Your post just proved to me that you are a troll and there is no point in discussing this with you. All of your claims are based on your subjective opinion. Go get a S4 and you know where audizone is. However most of us here in this forum actually prefer the feeling of a good old RWD car and like the fact that we don't have a engine hanging ahead of the front axle. Also, good luck getting a good deal on a new S4 while BMW dealer is offering great discounts on 335i. In the real world, an S4 is several thousands more than the sportiest 335i.

Originally Posted by blue2fire

Okay, i don't consider what you would want of much relevance. Speaking generally, the Audi costs less when you equip the 335 to the most similar spec.

There is no point in trying to find anything good about the 335 in this comparison, it is old, slow and just general compared to the S4's S designation that most people would undoubtedly like (and for depreciation's sake).

EDIT: The Audi turns out to be only a few hundred dollars more when compared to the spec of your "preference".

[blue2fire]

Originally Posted by dmz

Your post just proved to me that you are a troll and there is no point in discussing this with you. All of your claims are based on your subjective opinion. Go get a S4 and you know where audizone is. However most of us here in this forum actually prefer the feeling of a good old RWD car and like the fact that we don't have a engine hanging ahead of the front axle. Also, good luck getting a good deal on a new S4 while BMW dealer is offering great discounts on 335i. In the real world, an S4 is several thousands more than the sportiest 335i.

Your only argument was about the price and i don't see where i was wrong in my original statement. Nevertheless, i will attempt to respond to your post:

1. Yes, there is no point of discussion because iam right.

2. Yes, speech and keyboard input are the only outlet for my mind's opinion and will therefore voice it.

3. I know where Audizine is and will go there when i want to.

4. So do i but there is no knocking the faster car even around a track and one that offers even more tuneability.

5. They are also offering substandard service.

6. Still wouldnt matter to me, my only local dealer was never one for much discounts and negotiation. Even if there were millions of dollars of discounts, the residuals would pale in comparison making this point null and void.

[Year's_End]

Ok guys, this is getting ridiculous. The S4 is a superior car to the 335i in almost every aspect. However, it's not cheaper, but it is priced close enough to the point where it pretty much won't make a difference, depending upon how you option it.

If you get the trick-LSD and the Audi Drive Select then you're putting a gap of a couple grand between the two. If not, then yes, they're similarly priced, but the Audi's performance and driving abilities are reduced.

No question, the Audi has the better interior, and I have to admit it has a better exterior from certain angles (front is definitely better, rear...not so much).

Many reviews, Evo included, still say the BMW is the more fun one to drive, and is the more mechanically-connected feeling one, but they all say the Audi is the overall better car.

I think that's definitely agreeable.

[OC Guy]

^ The S4 is a very nice car, it's something I'm actually interested in.

As to the price aspect, are you comparing MSRP to MSRP or are you comparing real world cost? AFAIK, you can get a 335i now for close to invoice or invoice. As for a new S4, you really can't get a discount on them? I am applying this to the Southern California car market where dealers are a dime a dozen.

The price difference CAN be considerable if you are paying close to invoice for one car and MSRP for the other. Am I right about the current market rate for both cars?

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by OC 335i

^ The S4 is a very nice car, it's something I'm actually interested in.

As to the price aspect, are you comparing MSRP to MSRP or are you comparing real world cost? AFAIK, you can get a 335i now for close to invoice or invoice. As for a new S4, you really can't get a discount on them? I am applying this to the Southern California car market where dealers are a dime a dozen.

The price difference CAN be considerable if you are paying close to invoice for one car and MSRP for the other. Am I right about the current market rate for both cars?

True, what you're saying is right.

[footie]

The Audi S4 is more expensive in it's most desirable form which has to include Audi select in it's complete form (steering, suspension, gearbox and diff). You could leave it bog standard but then I would probably choose the 335i if I was an American where adverse weathers maybe less of an issue.

If you do pick the fully performance specced S4 then be in no doubt that the S4 is a much more superior performance car. In fact if you gave it the MTM (420ps) performance package and a few minor suspension tweaks I would say it would easily have the better of both an old RS4 and new M3.

So even if Audi don't bring the RS5 to the States you can't still have an alternative to an M3 if you perfer to buy Audi.

[shiggy]

well.....i took out a few cars out for test drives (lease expires soon)...on thursday, i took out the S4 out.....i loved the interior, fit n finish, exhaust note....a very nice car!
well......I bought my 335I because of how it drives, how it handles......how it feels and how well connected you feel to the road....and its very difficult to find a car that has the same effect. i am having some difficulties making up my mind what to do at the end of my lease but i do know that I can scratch off the S4 off my list. there are several things i liked about the car....but man...the steering feel is horrible...and when i took a few twisties at about 50 mph...it just felt...ummmm.....sloppy. I would put this cars handling characteristics of that of the new Merc E350.
anyway....i might just buy my car out at the end....or perhaps get another 335i but with a few more toys.....hmmmm.....

[footie]

Originally Posted by shiggy

well.....i took out a few cars out for test drives (lease expires soon)...on thursday, i took out the S4 out.....i loved the interior, fit n finish, exhaust note....a very nice car!
well......I bought my 335I because of how it drives, how it handles......how it feels and how well connected you feel to the road....and its very difficult to find a car that has the same effect. i am having some difficulties making up my mind what to do at the end of my lease but i do know that I can scratch off the S4 off my list. there are several things i liked about the car....but man...the steering feel is horrible...and when i took a few twisties at about 50 mph...it just felt...ummmm.....sloppy. I would put this cars handling characteristics of that of the new Merc E350.
anyway....i might just buy my car out at the end....or perhaps get another 335i but with a few more toys.....hmmmm.....

If this was the B8 S4 then all I can say is there must be a difference between the European spec steering and the US spec steering because I didn't feel that it was that much different from my M3 which I still have when I tested it.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by shiggy

well.....i took out a few cars out for test drives (lease expires soon)...on thursday, i took out the S4 out.....i loved the interior, fit n finish, exhaust note....a very nice car!
well......I bought my 335I because of how it drives, how it handles......how it feels and how well connected you feel to the road....and its very difficult to find a car that has the same effect. i am having some difficulties making up my mind what to do at the end of my lease but i do know that I can scratch off the S4 off my list. there are several things i liked about the car....but man...the steering feel is horrible...and when i took a few twisties at about 50 mph...it just felt...ummmm.....sloppy. I would put this cars handling characteristics of that of the new Merc E350.
anyway....i might just buy my car out at the end....or perhaps get another 335i but with a few more toys.....hmmmm.....

Explain sloppy...I would think it's the opposite. In fact the opposite has been said in all the reviews it's gotten so I think it's just you.

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis

Explain sloppy...I would think it's the opposite. In fact the opposite has been said in all the reviews it's gotten so I think it's just you.

+1.

The reviews all seem to indicate the opposite. "Shiggy" is probably the first opinion I've read saying the steering feel is bad, which makes me think he hasn't test driven the car, or doesn't know much about steering feel.

[GreenPlease]

Just configured one for $51,000 and I must say, it looks pretty damn tempting
Options:
-Sport Differential
-7 speed dct
-Navigation
-Bang and Olfsun sound system