[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by TractionControlDelete

BMW has been understating their power numbers for the entire turbo era (well over a decade now) so it very well could have the atleast 800hp you think it’d need. Mind you, I actually agree with you on most of what you said. But the Taycan has already demonstrated that weight in and of itself doesn’t tell the full story. I’ll try to remember to come back to this post once the numbers come out though - with utensils in hand to eat crow if I’m wrong. But I’ll put in my bid right now… the G90 will be faster on longer tracks like The Ring than the F90. More specifically it’ll outrun the M4 CSL (***Caveat: This prediction does NOT apply to shorter tracks)

I sincerely hope what you say becomes true, but I highly doubt it.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by TractionControlDelete

BMW has been understating their power numbers for the entire turbo era (well over a decade now) so it very well could have the atleast 800hp you think it’d need. Mind you, I actually agree with you on most of what you said. But the Taycan has already demonstrated that weight in and of itself doesn’t tell the full story. I’ll try to remember to come back to this post once the numbers come out though - with utensils in hand to eat crow if I’m wrong. But I’ll put in my bid right now… the G90 will be faster on longer tracks like The Ring than the F90. More specifically it’ll outrun the M4 CSL (***Caveat: This prediction does NOT apply to shorter tracks)

Even an underrated 800hp isn't enough to get anywhere near 7.15 of M4 CSL. You are being a little too optimistic.

AMG GT63S 4door E-Peformance
HP: 831
TQ: 1,084
Weight:5,145
Tires: Cup2
Ring Time: 7:28

F90 CS time is doable, with Cup 2 tires. I am sure they will make them optional. F90 CS was on Pzero Corsa. At best I could see a mid to low 7:20 for G90.

[ASAP]

Assuming this car even had 1000 hp, is this a car you really want at 5400 lbs? It's an F150... may as well just get an SUV... muscling or throwing around a 5400 lb vehicle is absurd at best.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Assuming this car even had 1000 hp, is this a car you really want at 5400 lbs? It's an F150... may as well just get an SUV... muscling or throwing around a 5400 lb vehicle is absurd at best.

I always saw the weight of 2 tonnes as the limit. I have driven some cars over that weight that drive spectacularly well, but nonetheless its a shame to see a M5 go down that route. I won't dismiss it fully until I get a crack on it, but I highly doubt it will be a more competent road blaster than an F90 or for that matter a Panny Turbo S or AMG GT 63/S63 E-Performance or a Bentley Flying Spur around that weight mark.

A true shame. A M5 and for that matter the E63 S as well, used to shine due to its lower weight compared to other really powerful sedans. Now, both have become equally porky. Shame.

[Holset]

Not surprised seems disappointing!

[chris719]

Originally Posted by MNoob

Yeah, I went to highschool, I don’t need an online calculator to know it’s wrong.

Typo, it is clearly just backwards. C student I'm guessing .

[TractionControlDelete]

Food for thought… maybe this supposed 5400lb number is purely BMW marketing. This wouldn’t be the first time BMW deliberately fed the internet exaggerated information to garner attention only for the production vehicle to be more subdued. Consider the XM’s very exaggerated grill in the early marketing phase compared to the relatively tame grill on the production model. It was beyond obvious that this was all a part of the marketing strategy.

Similarly, BMW executives go out of their way to parade around talking about the end of the manual transmission everytime they’re about to drop a manual transmission refresh. Consider Frank Weber’s comments right on the heels of the reveal of the manual transmission Z4.

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Question here is why you’d wager this…
You’re defying logic. Why? Do you have a deposit on the new M5 and are daydreaming?

realize it makes no sense.

The M5 CS, the most capable and quickest M5 ever could not beat the M4 GTS around the Nordschleife. Why would the base M5 beat the track focused M4 CSL? Especially with a less favourable power-to-weight ratio?

You are already eating crows and it shows. Change your diet man… :P

Oh on the contrary, I’m waiting for the G90 to be released so I can get a discount on the M5 CS

But I do stand by my prediction.

My post history makes things crystal clear where I stand on EVs and Hybrids. The current generation of BMWs will be as new as I’ll ever own. Period.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by TractionControlDelete

Food for thought… maybe this supposed 5400lb number is purely BMW marketing. This wouldn’t be the first time BMW deliberately fed the internet exaggerated information to garner attention only for the production vehicle to be more subdued. Consider the XM’s very exaggerated grill in the early marketing phase compared to the relatively tame grill on the production model. It was beyond obvious that this was all a part of the marketing strategy.

Similarly, BMW executives go out of their way to parade around talking about the end of the manual transmission everytime they’re about to drop a manual transmission refresh. Consider Frank Weber’s comments right on the heels of the reveal of the manual transmission Z4.

I am sorry but I have to disagree.

Don't forget, orders and allocations for the G90 M5 have just opened. They wouldn't be dropping info that would dissuade customers.

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

I am sorry but I have to disagree.

Don't forget, orders and allocations for the G90 M5 have just opened. They wouldn't be dropping info that would dissuade customers.

Trust me, I get it. But they did the exact same thing with the XM though. Here they are releasing information about the XM in summer 2022 with the BIG grill:

https://www.bmw.ly/en/topics/fascina...oncept-xm.html

Back in July 2022 they had a private event for the XM where no photos were revealed. And so they let the world continue thinking the almost universally panned design was the true one. Only those in attendance at the event had known that the grill was about the size of the X7 ones:

https://g07.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1939810

They were two weeks away from taking preorders and pushed this press release to all the BMW dealerships in early September 2022:

https://www.billjacobsbmw.com/meet-the-2023-bmw-xm/

By the time they started allowing official preorders in late September 2022 the world still thought the two-black-holes-for-a-grill was the actual vehicle until the simultaneous opening of preorders and the reveal video on the 27th:

https://g07.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1963172

The most they showed was the light outline of a smaller grill by preordering time - but never the true grill:

https://carbuzz.com/news/heres-when-...der-the-bmw-xm

Instead, they just kept riding the wave of attention. Attention, even for the wrong reasons, is a commodity these days. BMW willingly allowed the world to believe the grill-gate hype for the better part of the leadup to a summer 2023 release:

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...st-review/amp/

All of that to say, BMW may deliberately be fanning the flames for free marketing. I certainly would’ve thought the fake info on the XM would repulse and dissuade potential buyers yet they still published it. ///Marketing at its best/worst, depending on your worldview.

I don’t necessarily buy the 5,400lb figure btw. Think about this for a second… they’re essentially using the BMW i3 battery which weighs 256kg (564lbs) assuming older/heavier technology, and then G 5-series xdrive is clocking in between 4130-4370lbs depending on trim. So that could reasonably put the car in the 4700lb range. There should be extra reinforcements for the battery and so forth but does that necessarily push it up another 700lbs? I’m not so sure. I’ll wait for the official reveal/numbers to see but I have my doubts.

[SatinblkF90]

I hope oil/gas production doesn’t just somehow stop one day and then be forced into some EV crap like this against our will.

[Rafichicago]

I had E60 545i before for better part of 10 years among other cars. Currently own 2 E60 550s. I also have F90 M5 for the past two years or so. I intentionally skipped F10 that I did not like since day one and for many reasons. 535 engine sucked reliability-wise. The twin turbo V8 i will not even start on this. The V8 in M5 in that era was not much better. I liked F90 for many reasons one of them being absurdly quick and versatile because of all wheel drive that can be disconnected at will. Styling was quite nice as well. It was not have to be attentive. And not in a bad way. That next one will be the one to skip for me. 100%. Styling is weird, proportions are weird not fan of those ridiculous screens that seem like slapped on as an afterthought instead of decently integrated. As long time BMW fan and it’s a shame BMW is not making anything remotely appealing for my likings. And even though weight of that new M5 thing is going to be well hidden ( highly doubtful) I will not be getting it for one more specific reason. Hybrid drive. I do not want to have vehicle that will give me problems associated with ICE and electric aspect of automotive industry. I don’t like that concept and will 100% skip it.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

From what I have seen from Porsche, even they are a bit lost. Hearing rumours that all 992.2 will be hybrids, either mild hybrids or full on hybrids.

We are screwed. The car enthusiasts are a dying breed, and brands have decided to hit the final nails on the coffin. Such a shame.

I am sure to the CarWow Drag Race people and Influencers the New M5 will be a huge hit. And although they are a small percentage of the total number of owners, they represent a large enough group for the manufacturer to not give a rat's ass to us enthusiasts. They also know most people will still lease them anyways as 90% of M5s are leased worldwide due to its depreciation.

Most folks have no idea the weight of the M5 or how that affects them. Its a shame. I never saw BMW M going down this road, but apparently it has.
Although I believe the G90 will flop, it won't flop nearly as badly as the AMG 63's E-Performance as it will still keep the V8, and be plagued with less issues (MB really cocked it up on reliability, heard the AMG GT 63 E-Performance and S63 E-Performance are severely delayed due to tonnes of issues).

This is completely counter to what I’ve heard for the 992.2. In fact, the rumors I’ve heard are even better than staying ICE - GTS is going back to NA!

[Richbot]

Yeah it’s a no from me dawg

Damn. Right as I am in a position to order an M5 they go and do this kind of violence.

[Hassan1490]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Even an underrated 800hp isn't enough to get anywhere near 7.15 of M4 CSL. You are being a little too optimistic.

AMG GT63S 4door E-Peformance
HP: 831
TQ: 1,084
Weight:5,145
Tires: Cup2
Ring Time: 7:28

F90 CS time is doable, with Cup 2 tires. I am sure they will make them optional. F90 CS was on Pzero Corsa. At best I could see a mid to low 7:20 for G90.

The AMG GT63S 4door E-Performance did the quarter mile 0.2 seconds slower than the 2021 M5 CS.

Just imagine how miserable the upcoming M5 would be with over 200lb of weight and 120hp less than that Merc.
Imagine the upcoming scandal!

[zinner]

welcome to the gov't running rough shot over the auto industry. Bloated, heavy and expensive cars are the future. I have no clue why people would want to add a second powertrain on to a car, more money, more problems, more weight.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by robopp

This is completely counter to what I’ve heard for the 992.2. In fact, the rumors I’ve heard are even better than staying ICE - GTS is going back to NA!

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...e-911-preview/

This is in fact on par with the info I got from my dealer on early allocations for 992.2

I bet those N/A 992.2 are going to be a pain in the ass to buy as everyone will want those.

[soflonick]

The main issue I see is any major spirited driving will drain the battery stupid fast and then you're left with a 577hp motor pushing a gigantic 5500-6000lb car (with passengers)

I understand why BMW had to go this route cant make the motor push more boost or you run into emissions compliance issue. And for most people who will never really push the car to the point where the battery is depleted from driving fast its an excellent car. With the EV motors the sensations of speed will def be much better than the outgoing F90.

[soflonick]

Originally Posted by zinner

welcome to the gov't running rough shot over the auto industry. Bloated, heavy and expensive cars are the future. I have no clue why people would want to add a second powertrain on to a car, more money, more problems, more weight.

With an EV you're adding an extra 2K lbs of raw material to a car. when the battery goes bad cant be fixed has to be replaced & any accident is usually a total loss because thier so expensive to fix. They those precious batteries go to rot in some junk yard. It was never about the environment but about control. The biggest polluters are planes by an astronomical amount. You never hear them talking about carbon taxing a private jet or big ass yachts. Its laws for thee but not for me

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by soflonick

With an EV you're adding an extra 2K lbs of raw material to a car. when the battery goes bad cant be fixed has to be replaced & any accident is usually a total loss because thier so expensive to fix. They those precious batteries go to rot in some junk yard.

There's a large existing recycling industry that's rapidly refocusing on vehicle batteries. The materials in them are too valuable to just throw away. https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/...e-drivers-seat

[soflonick]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

There's a large existing recycling industry that's rapidly refocusing on vehicle batteries. The materials in them are too valuable to just throw away. https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/...e-drivers-seat

Good glad to see it, But like most recycling programs they constantly fall short of goals. Why? because the cost it takes to get the product to the plant. Let me ask you who going to cover the cost to transport the entire car to the plant then they have to disassemble the vehicle to get to the battery pack? The junyard sure as hell wont take apart a junked car and then still have to send the battery unless there was a major incentive for them. I'm not knocking the program but great ideas & good intentions often fall short when money is concerned. Its simply cheaper to mine for new batterys then to go through that whole process

[zinner]

Originally Posted by soflonick

Good glad to see it, But like most recycling programs they constantly fall short of goals. Why? because the cost it takes to get the product to the plant. Let me ask you who going to cover the cost to transport the entire car to the plant then they have to disassemble the vehicle to get to the battery pack? The junyard sure as hell wont take apart a junked car and then still have to send the battery unless there was a major incentive for them. I'm not knocking the program but great ideas & good intentions often fall short when money is concerned. Its simply cheaper to mine for new batterys then to go through that whole process

Simple we just make more laws and fines and taxes. *Wink*. Plastic was recycling made easy when it was sold to the world, now it just ends up in a land fill.