[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by soflonick

Good glad to see it, But like most recycling programs they constantly fall short of goals. Why? because the cost it takes to get the product to the plant. Let me ask you who going to cover the cost to transport the entire car to the plant then they have to disassemble the vehicle to get to the battery pack? The junyard sure as hell wont take apart a junked car and then still have to send the battery unless there was a major incentive for them. I'm not knocking the program but great ideas & good intentions often fall short when money is concerned. Its simply cheaper to mine for new batterys then to go through that whole process

The whole point is that the component materials are NOT cheaper to mine.

The linked article clearly shows a healthy 15% profit margin for recyclers as early as next year.

(Capitalism and free market principles don't suddenly fail when the good is a BEV or the material is lithium.)

[soflonick]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

The whole point is that the component materials are NOT cheaper to mine.

The linked article clearly shows a healthy 15% profit margin for recyclers as early as next year.

(Capitalism and free market principles don't suddenly fail when the good is a BEV or the material is lithium.)

yea ok bro. Keep on reading, Its great to live in fantasy land. I have learned throughout my years that no matter what you say once someone believes something it will be impossible to change that perspective. I can literally show you countless examples of failures in promised recycling/upcycling. We cant even have a moderately decent system for regular ewaste. Usually shipped to some poor country where they get exposed to extremely harmful substances. But all of a sudden for ev's that are significantly more complex and a logistical nightmare. We're going to get it right... Your article is full of hot air with no actual facts on how it will get done with factoring in logistical and end to end process. I bet you believe politicians when they say things on TV

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by TractionControlDelete

Trust me, I get it. But they did the exact same thing with the XM though. Here they are releasing information about the XM in summer 2022 with the BIG grill:

https://www.bmw.ly/en/topics/fascina...oncept-xm.html

But here you are comparing the XM Concept with the production version - I don't think BMW ever claimed the exterior design of the XM would be identical to the XM Concept, nor did BMW (M) publish any specs of the upcoming M5 to my knowledge (except confirming the XM drivetrain I guess), those are all from insiders.

[AP]

Good point about emissions as no doubt it will have to comply with the EU7 requirements which I think are supposed to be quite severe.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by soflonick

yea ok bro. Keep on reading, Its great to live in fantasy land. I have learned throughout my years that no matter what you say once someone believes something it will be impossible to change that perspective.

The article includes links to the bios of the authors. We can compare their credentials to yours. Or, if you don't have anything to offer personally, feel free to provide any reports written by people who actually understand this business and confirm your position.

In other words: between a specialist opinion and the gut feeling of an internet rando, the former always wins.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by zinner

welcome to the gov't running rough shot over the auto industry. Bloated, heavy and expensive cars are the future. I have no clue why people would want to add a second powertrain on to a car, more money, more problems, more weight.

This car is better because it’s newer. It is more environmentally friendly because it needs half the ton of more resources to build. Than more resources to recycle and reuse. What do you not understand?🤣🤣🤣 sarcasm of course.

[secretariat]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Right, but BMW claimed the G87 weighs 38XX but people are weighing them at 36XX. BMW also claims the car makes 453 hp but multiple dynos read 46X to 47X to the wheels.
So I guess in theory, the new M5 could weigh something like 5,000 lbs and have 800 hp, until the battery dies. I know BMW has its magic and can transform how a car drives even it's heavy, but with my 2014 Grand Cherokee weighing like 4700 lbs, that's going to be tough, physics are physics.

Are you suggesting that BMW is not only underestimating their horsepower numbers but are now also overestimating the weight of the vehicles? Really? So the 715 horsepower that the new M5 will have with the hybrid system will be 800 hp? And the weight gain over the F90 will not be 1000 lbs, but closer to "only" 800 lbs. Got it

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by secretariat

Are you suggesting that BMW is not only underestimating their horsepower numbers but are now also overestimating the weight of the vehicles? Really? So the 715 horsepower that the new M5 will have with the hybrid system will be 800 hp? And the weight gain over the F90 will not be 1000 lbs, but closer to "only" 800 lbs. Got it

They use skinnier pounds and fatter horsepower.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by secretariat

Are you suggesting that BMW is not only underestimating their horsepower numbers but are now also overestimating the weight of the vehicles? Really? So the 715 horsepower that the new M5 will have with the hybrid system will be 800 hp? And the weight gain over the F90 will not be 1000 lbs, but closer to "only" 800 lbs. Got it

Literally been that way for decades.

[bwoodahl]

“Complexify, then add heaviness” — Anti Chapman

[bunker]

the issue I have with the "heavier car / bigger engine" trend is that it makes cars from about 7 or 8 years ago dramatically less safe. can you imagine driving a 2016 3er and getting hit by one of these? or what if you're in a Corolla from the same year? I mean, you'd barely have a chance. and it's not like someone is going to drive an M5 gently. there's just the potential to generate too much force. I'll grab my cane and yell at a cloud on my way out...

[bmwdrive]

Originally Posted by bunker

the issue I have with the "heavier car / bigger engine" trend is that it makes cars from about 7 or 8 years ago dramatically less safe. can you imagine driving a 2016 3er and getting hit by one of these? or what if you're in a Corolla from the same year? I mean, you'd barely have a chance. and it's not like someone is going to drive an M5 gently. there's just the potential to generate too much force. I'll grab my cane and yell at a cloud on my way out...

It's very scary. 5000lb+ cars are becoming common. A Hummer EV is 9000lb. Car weight used to increase by a few hundred pounds. Now it increases by a few thousand pounds from one generation to the next. Good luck in a Miata.

[R0LL0T0MASI]

No thank you. Too heavy.

[kitw]

my former Model S Plaid was under 4800 lbs, and was already a pig. This is... silly.


That said, I'm really hoping someone mistook Gross Curb Weight for actual curb weight.

The F90 was Gross Weight Limit: 5379 lbs (2440 kg) for reference

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by kitw

my former Model S Plaid was under 4800 lbs, and was already a pig. This is... silly.


That said, I'm really hoping someone mistook Gross Curb Weight for actual curb weight.

The F90 was Gross Weight Limit: 5379 lbs (2440 kg) for reference

We will see. I had figured since the XM was 6052 lbs on curb weight and the recent X5M is 5455 lbs on curb weight that the 597 pound difference would be about what was added to the outgoing M5 for the G90 M5's curb weight. That would be 4370 pounds plus 597 would be 4967 pounds. Even with a heavier chassis the G90 at 5368 is a bit more than expected.

[seattle0099]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

Have you ever driven a Bentley Flying Spur Speed?

It is a bloody brilliant masterpiece (and it weighs as much as the moon, 5.5k pounds or 2.5 tonnes.). But here is the thing. You feel its weight. There is no way to hide it. 90% of the time, you don't realize it, but the moment you screw up, or brake a little too late, there you go, the weight is there.

And Bentley has over 40 years experience in making huge overweight luxury barges handle like they are sports cars. BMW doesn't have that experience.

If I want a 2.5k tonnes car, I will get a Panamera Turbo S, a S63 AMG E Performance or a Bentley Flying Spur, as the M5 will no longer have that agility edge, or additional performance. To make matters worse, the predicted price is putting the M5 pretty dangerously close to the territory of these cars.

It's still very different. Those Bently cars you have mentioned are still traditional front-mounted engine cars. The New BMW S63 + battery platform has a much more balanced weight distribution.

Go and test the XM on mountain roads or tracks, you will surprised by its cornering and breaking performance. I'm sure the new M5 will perform better in every way than its successor.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by seattle0099

It's still very different. Those Bently cars you have mentioned are still traditional front-mounted engine cars. The New BMW S63 + battery platform has a much more balanced weight distribution.

Go and test the XM on mountain roads or tracks, you will surprised by its cornering and breaking performance. I'm sure the new M5 will perform better in every way than its successor.

I am only making assumptions. The Bentley btw has no where near the poise or balance of an F90 M5 (and if I am not mistaken it shares the chassis with the Panny). But it compensates in other areas (what an interior and finish). An M5 at US$ 130k with that weight, its going in a direction where it is heading more towards these guys, than the sports cars crew. I don't know, I had a crack at the S63 E, the S part is great (although worse than the W222), but the 63 E Performance part was awful. Panny Turbo S I was not too impressed. Given my experiences and the stated weights and power, this M5 is shaping up.to be shite.

[ThesaVeliona]

It's like F10 M5 all over again. Everyone dogged on it back then, some started to love it in the recent years but the F10 was so controversial that BMW ditched manual M5 after it. I'm willing to wage my left girl nut and say that the same thing will happen to G90. Hate at first (It's a trend for BMW models. Hate on new, worship on old) and then love later.

[LaKuan]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

It's built into the transmission so no.

Take the trans out, yes.

[M3/4/8]

For all those F90 folks who leased yet are disappointed in the announced specs of the new M5 (by my rough estimate, 70% of this thread), you really have two other options staying in the brand with a 4 door sport sedan.

The current M3 is larger and more powerful than the E39 M5 and has more power than the E60 in Competition spec. Yes, it’s going down 2 cylinders, but get it with x-drive and it will feel close to the F90 in straight-line speed and more agile in the corners. If the V8 is a must, get a 2025 last-year F93 M8 GC or 850i GC. You still get 4 doors with the only compromise being slightly reduced head space in the rear for when driving clients. And you avoid the G80/82 grills, which for many (raises hand) are still an issue.

M8 GC is more expensive than the outgoing F90, but the interior build quality is excellent compared to the G90 materials and you still have an S63 only drivetrain. And it may seem like a bargain when they announce pricing on the G90. Better get on that fast - whatever succeeds it, be it a 6 or 8 series, it will have some form of electrification.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by gblansten

We will see. I had figured since the XM was 6052 lbs on curb weight and the recent X5M is 5455 lbs on curb weight that the 597 pound difference would be about what was added to the outgoing M5 for the G90 M5's curb weight. That would be 4370 pounds plus 597 would be 4967 pounds. Even with a heavier chassis the G90 at 5368 is a bit more than expected.

XM is built on X7 chassis.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by M3WC

XM is built on X7 chassis.

Which is the same CLAR chassis as the G05 X5. But you have a point in that the chassis is stretched a little bit and dimensionally bigger so it’s going to weigh a little bit more.