[supra93]

https://www.bimmertoday.de/2019/01/3...durch-munchen/

[Blksnowflake]

I've tried and tried to like this car....but I can't...looks like absolute shit and doesn't have any reasonable measure of performance to at least carry it past it's ugly. The head lights and tail lights are fugly as hell. It's like short, droopy and and typical riced out Toyota design language.
Huge fail.
Honestly, I'd rather a BRZ over this any day.

[MarkDemma]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

think about this: developing an engine takes longer than 3 years.

Its all a made up story for the potential toyota buying public to feel special.
There's no toyota tech in the z4/supra.
Its all 3/1 series tech, like every other z4 generation before it.
If you look at the underside of the g29, its all so familiar if you work on bmw's. No toyota influence to be found.

I'm curious if you actually watched the video. They cite specific examples of additional tests that Toyota did to the B58 engine and that changes to design were requested. While a video like this doesn't cite sources, it appears to be pretty well researched. I rather hope that we are getting a tad tired of someone yelling "fake news" at something that contradicts with their opinions and not questioning them.

Neither the video nor anyone commenting on it suggested that Toyota was involved with the DESIGN of the engine, but rather that they did extensive testing of individual components and asked for changes based on those stress tests. It's not at all an unreasonable supposition that these additional tests would result in a more reliable engine than if testing had been limited to the "regular" tests that BMW does. The video noted that Toyota was surprised by how much effort was put into the design / engineering and BMW was surprised with how much effort was put into testing / reliability.

I have no skin in this game either way, other than owning a car that has a B58 engine and thinking wouldn't it be nifty if there were some real tangible benefits to the collaboration that would benefit me and everyone else that has a car with a B58. Having kept a BMW >10 years before, these silly quality / reliability issues DO start to concern you after the 10th 4 figure repair visit to the shop happens.

[NickyC]

"Without Supra, I couldn't be a master driver".

Heh

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

Honestly, I'd rather a BRZ over this any day.

I wouldn't go that far! You could always pretend it's a new Z4 Coupe?

[matrixhunter]

Can someone photoshop a supra with bmw style front and rear bumpers, and a real BMW steering wheel? Perhaps a company could sell a conversion kit and we would have a Coupe Z4. Imagine if Toyota actually does make the manual trans in 2020 as promised. This could be the rebirth of the Z4M.

[Blksnowflake]

Originally Posted by NickyC

I wouldn't go that far! You could always pretend it's a new Z4 Coupe?

Then I'd wait for the actual Z4, the Z4M will come, waiting for that. This sucks, it's only worth talking points, when the newness factor wears off, it's just a shit car that costs too much and does too little. Would you pay $60k for a 300hp Miata, I sure as hell wouldn't, no matter "the feeel" everyone yaps about, I'd rather the feel of using my money wiser.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

Then I'd wait for the actual Z4, the Z4M will come, waiting for that. This sucks, it's only worth talking points, when the newness factor wears off, it's just a shit car that costs too much and does too little. Would you pay $60k for a 300hp Miata, I sure as hell wouldn't, no matter "the feeel" everyone yaps about, I'd rather the feel of using my money wiser.

I wouldn't bank on a Z4M, the last generation never had one and the ZMs have never sold well (don't ask me why, I've owned six different Z3M and Z4M models!).

I do agree however that this Supra is a massive let down, and like you I'd never consider one.

[stevenvillatoro]

I'll be curious to see the demographics of Supra buyers. There seems to be a conflict between purchase price and aesthetic sensibility. Would those who could best afford a $50-60K car actually want to be seen driving something so boy racer-ish?

I can see popularity on the used market in a number of years, however.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by MarkDemma

I'm curious if you actually watched the video.

Yes I did...

They cite specific examples of additional tests that Toyota did to the B58 engine and that changes to design were requested. While a video like this doesn't cite sources, it appears to be pretty well researched.

Its not researched at all. There isn't a single example given what part exactly was revised. Why not? Its just a summed up pile of very vague claims, copied from other stories designed to attrack viewers..

Dont get impressed by words well spoken in a slightly too slowly pace.
That doesnt make it true. It just makes a nice video.
The lack of real world concrete examples is more important. At least if you want to make it convincing...
And finally look at the tech used, look at who the oems are.
And use your mind. maybe 5% of b58 engines end up in a supra.... Do you think BMW and their OEMS are going to radically change their production processes thàt late in the development stadium?

[MarkDemma]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Yes I did...

Its not researched at all. There isn't a single example given what part exactly was revised. Why not? Its just a summed up pile of very vague claims, copied from other stories designed to attrack viewers..

Dont get impressed by words well spoken in a slightly too slowly pace.
That doesnt make it true. It just makes a nice video.
The lack of real world concrete examples is more important. At least if you want to make it convincing...
And finally look at the tech used, look at who the oems are.
And use your mind. maybe 5% of b58 engines end up in a supra.... Do you think BMW and their OEMS are going to radically change their production processes thàt late in the development stadium?

Well, I honestly don't see you giving any more information, links or data, just opinion based on no facts. I'm not saying I believe what they are saying in the video, as I said they don't provide any references. I asked the question because I wanted to know if anyone had any better information. Obviously you don't.

EDIT - Looking at the video directly on the YouTube site, they DO provide a list of references for the video. Many, apparently, are in German or Japanese and had to be translated for the video. They also mention they did their own interviews with engineers from both companies. So it would appear that they DID do a good bit of research to make the video, not just "talk slow".

[supra93]

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

Then I'd wait for the actual Z4, the Z4M will come, waiting for that.

It will, at what cost? M40i is $65k with zero options. Personally don't think BMW left any room for a Z4M with that pricing.

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

This sucks, it's only worth talking points, when the newness factor wears off, it's just a shit car that costs too much and does too little.

If someone is into the styling it seems like a decent buy, assuming you aren't paying a markup. Supra is only $290 more than the 4-banger Z4.

[supra93]

According to this, it doesn't sound like a Z4M is happening anytime soon.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...9-bmw-z4-no-m/

There are some dealers that are not marking them up.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/u-s...mark-ups.1599/

[Nextbooost]

I "could" eventually get over its a rebadged bmw. But my god the car is so goddamn ugly, and all the fake vents. Fake is what it is, its a fake.

[SakhirM4]

I can't get over all the people calling this car ugly. It really shows how different people's tastes are. Like all the people wanting to strap a "purse handle" spoiler on it's butt to improve the looks. Really??

[Red Bread]

I have to admit that while I was watching the SB commercial, I chose to see it as a Z4 coupe and it's actually not bad in that light. It's heavy and ugly, but I'm an opinionated previous owner of the first M Coupe who thought the first Z4 M Coupe was also overstyled.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by stevenvillatoro

I'll be curious to see the demographics of Supra buyers. There seems to be a conflict between purchase price and aesthetic sensibility. Would those who could best afford a $50-60K car actually want to be seen driving something so boy racer-ish?

I can see popularity on the used market in a number of years, however.

Keep in mind this is the same company that sells this for $100K:



...and this for $375k:

[ntg44]

I've been crapping on this car since it came out, but real life non-marketing shots are making me warm up to it a little. I think with an aftermarket front bumper, steering wheel, MkIV wing, set of wheels, and a drop, this would make it worth owning to me.

The problem is I'd need to do all those things before I'd be happy with the design, rather than being happy with the base car and slightly modifying it to my tastes. Those mods altogether won't be cheap, and blowing more than 5 grand on top of the car just to get to a starting point I'd be happy with make it a hard sell for me.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by ntgarage44

I've been crapping on this car since it came out, but real life non-marketing shots are making me warm up to it a little. I think with an aftermarket front bumper, steering wheel, MkIV wing, set of wheels, and a drop, this would make it worth owning to me.

The problem is I'd need to do all those things before I'd be happy with the design, rather than being happy with the base car and slightly modifying it to my tastes. Those mods altogether won't be cheap, and blowing more than 5 grand on top of the car just to get to a starting point I'd be happy with make it a hard sell for me.

Similar to the BRZ, but at least you'd have a decent motor with the Supra.

[Alfisti]

Honestly just drop a LS6 in a BRZ and be done with it.

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Similar to the BRZ, but at least you'd have a decent motor with the Supra.

While true, I'm much more critical of the Supra since it's basically double the price of the 86. I should be beyond happy with a 50-60k purchase, and I think at this point the 86 is a better car for me, or the M240/M2. If the Supra had any other engine besides an inline 6 turbo I wouldn't even be considering it.

I was really hoping to replace my M3 with a Supra and put a loud turbo back exhaust on it, but that's going to have to wait until I can find the aftermarket parts to fix the way it looks. Even then, it might sound and look better than my m3, but I'm not convinced it'll be a better car yet.

Time will tell.