Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

zx10guy · 09-07-2023, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASAP

As the price gets lower and lower, does it really matter?

Sure, the Honda... but again, the comparo is not apples to apples because one car does 0-60 in 3.8 seconds, the other one does it in almost 7, so we aren't even in the same league of cars anymore. That alone provides an experience, the Honda never could.

I think again... these cars are getting real cheap for what you get... and the cheaper it gets, the less people fuss about build quality.

You're correct that the two cars are not an apples to apples comparison. When you look at a typical buyer of a Honda Accord or similar class vehicle, they don't give a crap about how fast it goes from 0 to 60. They're more interested in reliability, build quality, and cost to operate.

And I would also say that many Tesla buyers don't give a crap about 0 to 60 times. In the DC metro area, you can't go far without running into a Tesla. Most of these drivers move about as slow as molasses. Almost reminiscent of hyper-milers. Many got into a Tesla because of FOMO or virtue signaling.

ASAP · 09-07-2023, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zx10guy

You're correct that the two cars are not an apples to apples comparison. When you look at a typical buyer of a Honda Accord or similar class vehicle, they don't give a crap about how fast it goes from 0 to 60. They're more interested in reliability, build quality, and cost to operate.

And I would also say that many Tesla buyers don't give a crap about 0 to 60 times. In the DC metro area, you can't go far without running into a Tesla. Most of these drivers move about as slow as molasses. Almost reminiscent of hyper-milers. Many got into a Tesla because of FOMO or virtue signaling.

So the problem there is that the cheapest RWD model 3 is even cheaper lol... i was pointing out the Performance model above. That car after savings is like $33k lol... again still does 0-60 in 5.8... its becoming hard to argue and I am not even a Tesla fan.

Murf the Surf · 09-07-2023, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASAP

As the price gets lower and lower, does it really matter?

Sure, the Honda... but again, the comparo is not apples to apples because one car does 0-60 in 3.8 seconds, the other one does it in almost 7, so we aren't even in the same league of cars anymore. That alone provides an experience, the Honda never could.

I think again... these cars are getting real cheap for what you get... and the cheaper it gets, the less people fuss about build quality.

I wouldn't call $40K+ USD cheap. Not everyone is able to spend that kind of money for a car. Used car prices are what the majority look at and therefore if you are at the bottom end of Tesla pricing I suspect you have to also think about trade in/resale value. I'm willing to bet the Honda will be worth much more when it comes time to trade it in. And I suspect that the majority of people who buy cars are only looking at them as reliable transportation and want to save money, they don't care about 0-60times.

ASAP · 09-07-2023, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I wouldn't call $40K+ USD cheap. Not everyone is able to spend that kind of money for a car. Used car prices are what the majority look at and therefore if you are at the bottom end of Tesla pricing I suspect you have to also think about trade in/resale value. I'm willing to bet the Honda will be worth much more when it comes time to trade it in. And I suspect that the majority of people who buy cars are only looking at them as reliable transportation and want to save money, they don't care about 0-60times.

its 33k not 40k for the cheapest... Almost in line with the Accord. Again, I don't think the Accord buyer is a Tesla Model 3 buyer for many reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The lowest price Model 3 does not pull 0 to 60 in 3.8 seconds, it's 5.8 seconds.

Correct... my example was the Performance model... the base model is 5.8 which is still vastly superior in terms of performance and handling to any Accord.

Again - not for everyone!! Especially if you do longer distance driving but an all around fun town car... i would go for it if thats all i wanted.

zx10guy · 09-07-2023, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASAP

So the problem there is that the cheapest RWD model 3 is even cheaper lol... i was pointing out the Performance model above. That car after savings is like $33k lol... again still does 0-60 in 5.8... its becoming hard to argue and I am not even a Tesla fan.

You're still not understanding. It doesn't matter how fast a Model 3 is over a Honda Accord. The buyer for this type of car doesn't give a crap about 0 to 60 times as an important buying criteria. As I said, it's about reliability, quality and cost to operate. If what you say were true, more buyers would be buying cheaper alternatives from domestic makes for example. They don't. In fact, people will pay a bit extra to get their hands on a Honda or a Toyota due to the quality/reliability reputation. And if they can't afford to buy new, they'll buy a used Honda or Toyota. Resell values of these makes bear this out.

Car-Addicted · 09-07-2023, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASAP

I am not a fan of Tesla crappy build quality but you can get a Model 3 Performance right now for $48K and then have the 7.5K tax credit on top of that... net price of $41k... i mean even if the car sucks, that's hard to beat... this doesn't even get you a 330i these days and is way faster.

Sounds like a good deal. Now all you have to do is justify the environmental damage the construction of your good deal took.

Me, I'll take a good lightly used M3 or M4 and know that my choice is better for me and the environment.

ASAP · 09-07-2023, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zx10guy

You're still not understanding. It doesn't matter how fast a Model 3 is over a Honda Accord. The buyer for this type of car doesn't give a crap about 0 to 60 times as an important buying criteria. As I said, it's about reliability, quality and cost to operate. If what you say were true, more buyers would be buying cheaper alternatives from domestic makes for example. They don't. In fact, people will pay a bit extra to get their hands on a Honda or a Toyota due to the quality/reliability reputation. And if they can't afford to buy new, they'll buy a used Honda or Toyota. Resell values of these makes bear this out.

I don't think you are understanding... the point I made above is these are not cross shop buyers. The Tesla offers something the Honda Accord doesn't and vice versa.

I don't think anyone buying a Model 3 has in their minds, I will keep this car forever or drive it until the wheels fall off... it's considered a "cool car" that attracts a certain crowd. It has certain advantages that make it a very good city car. The Accord buyer is far more conservative and intends on keeping their car long term and probably values resale.

The thing is, as price gets closer and closer, more folks will move into the Tesla bracket just to try something different. At the mid 30k price point this decision becomes easier.

ASAP · 09-07-2023, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Sounds like a good deal. Now all you have to do is justify the environmental damage the construction of your good deal took.

Me, I'll take a good lightly used M3 or M4 and know that my choice is better for me and the environment.

I agree... that's a different discussion altogether.

As far as the M3... I already have a 4klb AWD SUV on wheels

gblansten · 09-07-2023, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASAP

I don't think you are understanding... the point I made above is these are not cross shop buyers. The Tesla offers something the Honda Accord doesn't and vice versa.

I don't think anyone buying a Model 3 has in their minds, I will keep this car forever or drive it until the wheels fall off... it's considered a "cool car" that attracts a certain crowd. It has certain advantages that make it a very good city car. The Accord buyer is far more conservative and intends on keeping their car long term and probably values resale.

The thing is, as price gets closer and closer, more folks will move into the Tesla bracket just to try something different. At the mid 30k price point this decision becomes easier.

Honda and Toyota are losing customers to Tesla.

https://insideevs.com/news/624527/te...-toyota-honda/

zx10guy · 09-07-2023, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASAP

I don't think you are understanding... the point I made above is these are not cross shop buyers. The Tesla offers something the Honda Accord doesn't and vice versa.

I don't think anyone buying a Model 3 has in their minds, I will keep this car forever or drive it until the wheels fall off... it's considered a "cool car" that attracts a certain crowd. It has certain advantages that make it a very good city car. The Accord buyer is far more conservative and intends on keeping their car long term and probably values resale.

The thing is, as price gets closer and closer, more folks will move into the Tesla bracket just to try something different. At the mid 30k price point this decision becomes easier.

Then why do you constantly keep making the comparisons with the Accord? The sales numbers for Toyota and Honda haven't been hammered as badly as other makes. So I doubt you'll see any significant movement from these buyers over to Tesla unless being forced into that transition. The movement in buyers are from other manufacturers. And since you keep bringing up a Honda buyer, there have been pretty decent cars from domestic makes that are priced lower than a Honda Accord and that still didn't sway buying decisions.

ASAP · 09-07-2023, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblansten

Honda and Toyota are losing customers to Tesla.

https://insideevs.com/news/624527/te...-toyota-honda/

That only makes this conversation funnier

ASAP · 09-07-2023, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Then why do you constantly keep making the comparisons with the Accord? The sales numbers for Toyota and Honda haven't been hammered as badly as other makes. So I doubt you'll see any significant movement from these buyers over to Tesla unless being forced into that transition. The movement in buyers are from other manufacturers. And since you keep bringing up a Honda buyer, there have been pretty decent cars from domestic makes that are priced lower than a Honda Accord and that still didn't sway buying decisions.

That was not me... that was the other guy. And see article above... also please carefully re read all of my comments.

zx10guy · 09-07-2023, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblansten

Honda and Toyota are losing customers to Tesla.

https://insideevs.com/news/624527/te...-toyota-honda/

Those stats don't take into account what drove those typical Honda/Toyota buyers over to Tesla. No mention of the back log/wait times to get a new Honda/Toyota. The Toyota dealer where I bought mine from still has a close to empty lot as cars are pretty much sold before even being delivered.

gblansten · 09-07-2023, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Those stats don't take into account what drove those typical Honda/Toyota buyers over to Tesla. No mention of the back log/wait times to get a new Honda/Toyota. The Toyota dealer where I bought mine from still has a close to empty lot as cars are pretty much sold before even being delivered.

The article fails to do that. The article just notes that Toyota and Honda are some of the biggest former brands for new Tesla owners. It fails to give background narratives on the lifestyles and desires and accomplishments of those buyers.