Ferguson, MS: Wilson vs Brown

grimlock · 12-04-2014, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fecurtis

He wasn't resisting arrest. They didn't even have a reason to arrest him, they never found cigarettes on him. They didn't bother searching until he was dead anyway.

I'm not sure how much you know about the law, but generally the process works in the reverse.

But if you want to be ignorant to things like that, knock yourself out.

lawyer?

ASAP · 12-04-2014, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

this is really the bottom line. A world that didn't need law enforcement would be lovely. I would really like to not have to worry about anyone doing me any harm, stealing my stuff, raping my wife or daughter.

But that isn't the world we live in.

If you don't want to get your ass beat by the cops, don't break the law, not even the small ones that you don't agree with. Even if you didn't break the law and don't want to get your ass beat by the cops, don't resist arrest. Get arrested and sue for unlawful arrest, get a nice settlement.

These aren't difficult concepts for rational humans to grasp.

So if I get pulled over for going 7 mph over the posted speed limit, I should get my ass beat by the cops?

Sound logic. One would think a reasoned response would be to hold law enforcement official to a higher standard as it is their job to serve and to protect. I don't see either instance being upheld in that video.

Part of me thinks that years of dealing with urban neighborhoods have conditioned these police to just have little in the way of professionalism towards the people they interact with since I'd imagine these guys do deal with some shady characters. Another part of me thinks that maybe the way they're trained could possibly be an issue. Like that cop who shot and killed that child in Cleveland who had a toy gun (which admittedly looked convincing). With things like the terror attacks in Boston, mass shootings in schools, malls, etc, are cops being trained to deal with seemingly simple scenarios as though they're terror events or events that could lead to a mass shooting?

I actually agree here.

Sara · 12-04-2014, 01:22 PM

I love debates. Yall just helped kill 1/2 my day. Thanks guys

fecurtis · 12-04-2014, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billup

I know everything about the law. Not only am I on the internet, but I am an American, so I know everything there is to know about everything. Go ahead and ask me anything, I'll tell you about it.

Are you saying they all should have shoved their hands in his pockets while they were on top of him?

Where in the video was he complying with law enforcement...., except when he was on the bottom?

No, I'm saying they have to have reason to arrest him before actually arresting him. That guy was committing no crimes (if they actually found evidence of him selling loose cigarettes then yes they should have arrested him). Would you be cool with being harassed by police while not actually breaking the law? I know I wouldn't.

I'm all for being respectful and complying with law enforcement, I've been nothing but courteous in the very rare instances where I've had to deal with them, but the circumstances surrounding this is ridiculous.

KingOfJericho · 12-04-2014, 01:23 PM

The stingray put him in an illegal choke hold.

KingOfJericho · 12-04-2014, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sara504

I love debates. Yall just helped kill 1/2 my day. Thanks guys

Happy to help!

grimlock · 12-04-2014, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fecurtis

No, I'm saying they have to have reason to arrest him before actually arresting him. That guy was committing no crimes (if they actually found evidence of him selling loose cigarettes then yes they should have arrested him). Would you be cool with being harassed by police while not actually breaking the law? I know I wouldn't.

I'm all for being respectful and complying with law enforcement, I've been nothing but courteous in the very rare instances where I've had to deal with them, but the circumstances surrounding this is ridiculous.

no, he's a repeat offender, probably about to or in the process of re-offending (what else is he doing on a street corner?)
it's not like you're going to the MET or opera with wifey and the moment you step out of your car these cops are putting you in a chokehold..

Billup · 12-04-2014, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fecurtis

No, I'm saying they have to have reason to arrest him before actually arresting him. That guy was committing no crimes (if they actually found evidence of him selling loose cigarettes then yes they should have arrested him). Would you be cool with being harassed by police while not actually breaking the law? I know I wouldn't.

I'm all for being respectful and complying with law enforcement, I've been nothing but courteous in the very rare instances where I've had to deal with them, but the circumstances surrounding this is ridiculous.

No, I wouldn't be cool with it, because it has happened to me before. Imagine being a white guy in a heavily populated black city. I've been harassed by cops more times than I can count, because I, a white man, looked suspicious in the town I was in. Frisked because they thought I was in the city scoring drugs or doing something I shouldn't, when I was just trying to live my life.

The only difference is, when they addressed me, I stopped and listened to anything they told me. The circumstances around this are ridiculous, and I agree with you on that, but the truth is, there was one simple step that could have avoided the entire situation as a whole, by a single individual.

Billup · 12-04-2014, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

The stingray put him in an illegal choke hold.

From what I've read about stingrays is that it was actually trying to show Croc Dundee love by inserting his shaft slowly into the guys pelvis.

He just didn't realize it was a human and not another stingray. Silly stingrays.

MiddleAgedAl · 12-04-2014, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I know it's from the Post but a good read nonetheless:

http://nypost.com/2014/12/04/eric-ga...ing-to-resist/

Yes, it's the post, but facts are facts.

"There were 228,000 misdemeanor arrests in New York City in 2013, the last year for which there are audited figures, and every one of them had at least the potential to turn into an Eric Garner-like case.

None did.

So much for the “out of control” cop trope. So much for the notion that everyday citizens — or even criminals with the presence of mind to keep their hands to themselves — have something to fear from the NYPD."

That's just NYC. Across the country, the total is obviously much much higher.

Many people are taken into custody under the suspicion of committing the same sorts of offence as Garner, every single day.

The difference between Garner and everyone else, is that everyone else didnt choose to react in a way which is not at all in their own best interest. You'd think after 30+ arrests, Garner would have concluded that he's not going to win in police interactions like this, and physical resistance is futile.

I'd file this as a textbook example of natural selection, rather than police brutality.

Sara · 12-04-2014, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Happy to help!

.

talisman311 · 12-04-2014, 01:46 PM

Sara - your avatar is super-distracting, but hot!

Anyhow, I thought this was a good article from a veteran beat-cop in NYC. I'm with him on this.. I'm not going to say he didn't use excessive force, but the guy was going to get booked either the easy way or hard way. He chose the latter and got killed over it. Selling cigarettes was something he'd been convicted of repeatedly in the past. Did he deserve to die? No, but be a real man and own up to breaking the law/have your day in court.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...rner-case.html

Myrder · 12-04-2014, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grimlock

^Yes, and it's ironic he's dead now..

Sara · 12-04-2014, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myrder

Who is he from? Looks familiar? Princess Bride?

Sara · 12-04-2014, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talisman311

Sara - your avatar is super-distracting, but hot!

Anyhow, I thought this was a good article from a veteran beat-cop in NYC. I'm with him on this.. I'm not going to say he didn't use excessive force, but the guy was going to get booked either the easy way or hard way. He chose the latter and got killed over it. Selling cigarettes was something he'd been convicted of repeatedly in the past. Did he deserve to die? No, but be a real man and own up to breaking the law/have your day in court.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...rner-case.html

I just had a baby 5 months ago and am super proud of how I recovered. Thanks!

Myrder · 12-04-2014, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sara504

Who is he from? Looks familiar? Princess Bride?

Correcto Inigo Montoya

Sara · 12-04-2014, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myrder

Correcto Inigo Montoya

huh? who?

talisman311 · 12-04-2014, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sara504

Who is he from? Looks familiar? Princess Bride?

Did you guys know this is Saul in homeland??? Blew my freaking mind

Sara · 12-04-2014, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talisman311

Did you guys know this is Saul in homeland??? Blew my freaking mind

Never saw homeland.

talisman311 · 12-04-2014, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sara504

I just had a baby 5 months ago and am super proud of how I recovered. Thanks!

That's awesome, congrats! (on both)

Sara · 12-04-2014, 01:55 PM

Its 1pm... Wheres my fucking salad from Arbys?!!

Billup · 12-04-2014, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myrder

Correcto Inigo Montoya

Still one of the best movies of all time.

12-04-2014, 01:22 PM	#399
Sara Lieutenant General 5880 Rep 17,879 Posts Drives: A car Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nola iTrader: (6)	I love debates. Yall just helped kill 1/2 my day. Thanks guys
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12-04-2014, 01:23 PM	#401
KingOfJericho Major General 2458 Rep 7,341 Posts Drives: Yes Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CT iTrader: (1) Garage List 2010 135i Coupe [5.26]	The stingray put him in an illegal choke hold. __________________ The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Bimmerpost. 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee High Altitude Hemi \| 2010 S4 Sold \| 2010 BMW 135i Retired \| 2006 Lotus Exige Sold
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12-04-2014, 01:46 PM	#408
talisman311 First Lieutenant 45 Rep 358 Posts Drives: e90 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Richmond, VA iTrader: (0)	Sara - your avatar is super-distracting, but hot! Anyhow, I thought this was a good article from a veteran beat-cop in NYC. I'm with him on this.. I'm not going to say he didn't use excessive force, but the guy was going to get booked either the easy way or hard way. He chose the latter and got killed over it. Selling cigarettes was something he'd been convicted of repeatedly in the past. Did he deserve to die? No, but be a real man and own up to breaking the law/have your day in court. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...rner-case.html __________________ 2006 e90 330i \| Black/Terra \| 6MT \| ZSP \| ZPP \| ZCW
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12-04-2014, 01:55 PM	#417
Sara Lieutenant General 5880 Rep 17,879 Posts Drives: A car Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nola iTrader: (6)	Its 1pm... Wheres my fucking salad from Arbys?!!
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