[Patton250]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

And you wonder why people might, just might think you're stupid. The notion that so-called "conservatives" don't engage in hate speech is beyond words. As I stated in the other post, you've got issues. Not everything is Left or Right but apparently in your narrow minded view, it is.

I’d like to personally thank you for single-handedly proving my point. I realize you didn’t mean to but you absolutely did. Thank you.

[TiMSport]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I’d like to personally thank you for single-handedly proving my point. I realize you didn’t mean to but you absolutely did. Thank you.

Trust me, it was intentional to prove MY point. Truth hurts. Oh and you're welcome. Please do feel free to continue on with your nonsense about conservatives and liberals but somewhere else.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

Who cares what he or anyone else says in private. .

When you misappropriate company or business equipment to send emails outside the scope of your employment - it's not private anymore. Mr. G inappropriately used others' equipment to send communication that bit him in his butt. In this case that's what opened his emails up for review. They weren't private. If you want your hate-filled opinions and speech to be private, keep it private.

Originally Posted by TiMSport

Just ignore him. This is his MO. Baits you into stupid arguments over shit he has no clue about.

You didn't follow your own advice.

Originally Posted by Patton250

Whatever.

I forgot all conservatives are stupid to you people. No need to be a hypocrite.

You are the first person to bring up politics or L vs. C. when this was/is about Mr. Gruden's behavior and feelings about/against most of the Earth's population and how a person like that shouldn't be supported any further by a corporation employing him. I have no idea whether he (Gruden) is political or even libera, moderate or conservative if he is political. However, his behavior on a corporate computer and email is what brought him down. Not just his feelings on these things.

Originally Posted by ggunn9

Can we just talk about the issues here?...

That would be great. Thanks.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I stopped reading your post after your first sentence. You’re a liar.

Oh no you didn't.

Originally Posted by Patton250

...I forgot all conservatives are stupid to you people. No need to be a hypocrite.

Nope. As Forrest Gump put it "stupid is as stupid does". I base my opinions on individuals on their demonstrated behavior, not their political stance. Gruden's demonstrated behavior has been deplorable for decades. Consequently, this came as no surprise.

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

.. And these type of baiting threads should be an instant ban. Another fine example of "lets stir the pot" liberal games.

So, you're a person who believes someone who you disagree with should be banned. Therefore anti-free-speech, what does that make you. Left, right, moderate?

Originally Posted by Patton250

I can answer that for you....Hate speech = A people or person that has the audacity to disagree with a liberal..... Now I’ll drop out of this thread because these threads have a tendency to cause me to block lots of people. It’s already had one victim........

Does that mean anti hate-speech = liberal? If that's the criteria, color me L. You know the retired cop, NRA member, firearms broker/dealer, gas-guzzler, premier-auto owner, capitalist.... yep, you got me all figured out. Maybe that is still liberal in your area. But you won't get this because I'm blocked. Thanks.



Now does anyone mind if we get back to the scheduled program?

Is anyone surprised about Gruden?

[iamwingman]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Sorry, I didn't notice until now that you're from the state that overly discounts science, intelligence and respect for others. Apologies to any/all Floridians that disagree with Patton or that have regards for others.

That’s borderline hate speech. Oh the irony.

[UncleWede]

Can someone point me to 'leaked" email contents? I have an issue with "reports indicate" or anything in that vein. I'd like to read and judge the content before making a decision.

[tcphoto]

I think that the Commissioner's favorite phrase is, "revenge is best served cold". The emails were discovered in the NFL's investigation of allegations of the WFT's workplace conditions, including the request for video of the cheerleaders from Snyder. I imagine that someone made him aware of Gruden's comments and he saw an opportunity to "leak" them.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

When you misappropriate company or business equipment to send emails outside the scope of your employment - it's not private anymore. Mr. G inappropriately used others' equipment to send communication that bit him in his butt. In this case that's what opened his emails up for review. They weren't private. If you want your hate-filled opinions and speech to be private, keep it private.

you seem to not be reading the full story here, maybe cause of your hate for the raiders or something, but Gruden didnt misappropriate NFL equipment to send emails outside the scope of his employment, since he was not employed by the NFL at the time. If youre upset with that, you should be upset with Bruce Allen, not Gruden.

What Gruden is guilty of is using language that in 2011 probably would have gotten him a slap on the wrist, but in todays culture will get you cancelled. If his emails had been leaked when he sent them, he would have been suspended a week or 2 from ESPN and that would have been it. Cancel culture wasnt what it is now back then.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by tcphoto

I think that the Commissioner's favorite phrase is, "revenge is best served cold". The emails were discovered in the NFL's investigation of allegations of the WFT's workplace conditions, including the request for video of the cheerleaders from Snyder. I imagine that someone made him aware of Gruden's comments and he saw an opportunity to "leak" them.

If there's anything we have learned from Goodell's time as commish, its that he is petty and loves to get revenge and throw his weight around. If there were no comments about Goodell, i dont think we'd be having this convo about his resignation.

Dont believe me? There wasnt a push for his removal during the first round of emails were leaked by the Wall Street Journal. It wasnt until the latest round were leaked by the NYT which were directed at Goodell that he was in trouble.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

Can someone point me to 'leaked" email contents? I have an issue with "reports indicate" or anything in that vein. I'd like to read and judge the content before making a decision.

Wall Street Journal has the 1st set, New York Times has the 2nd. Or any of the 100s of articles on google that quote both of them.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

you seem to not be reading the full story here, maybe cause of your hate for the raiders or something, but Gruden didnt misappropriate NFL equipment to send emails outside the scope of his employment, since he was not employed by the NFL at the time. If youre upset with that, you should be upset with Bruce Allen, not Gruden..

Like or dislike of the Raiders (or any employer) doesn't have anything to do with Gruden getting caught violating all types of decency - which caused him to get fired/retire immediately. You're not an asshole because you got caught doing something unacceptable, you're an asshole because you did it in the first place. He did it and has taken responsibility for it. No denial - consequently, he's an asshole that should have been fired.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Like or dislike of the Raiders (or any employer) doesn't have anything to do with Gruden getting caught violating all types of decency - which caused him to get fired/retire immediately. You're not an asshole because you got caught doing something unacceptable, you're an asshole because you did it in the first place. He did it and has taken responsibility for it. No denial - consequently, he's an asshole that should have been fired.

i prefer to not judge someone based on actions from over a decade ago. Everyone has done things in their past that could be viewed as unacceptable now a days. There are no exceptions to this.

I prefer to look at what they are doing currently, and Gruden supporting Nassib when he came out this year, speaks a lot louder than some emails a decade ago.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

i prefer to not judge someone based on actions from over a decade ago. Everyone has done things in their past that could be viewed as unacceptable now a days. There are no exceptions to this.
.

Great. Name me something that was completely acceptable 10 years ago that is now deemed unacceptable. Here's a quote from the NY Magazine that I find true. And no, everyone doesn't do this so don't lump "everyone" in with whoever you are familiar with.

"when Gruden sent emails calling NFL commissioner Roger Goodell a gay slur and deriding female referees, gay former player Michael Sam, and NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith in racist terms. But had those emails come out back then, there probably would have been even less debate about his fate than there is now. An asshole ten years ago looks a lot like an asshole now." NYMagazine.

But go ahead and provide me something completely unacceptable today that was okay 10 years ago.

[Germanauto]

I see both sides on this. Most of us guys have said similar stuff plenty of times, especially when younger. However Gruden put this stuff into writing, just as Urban got caught on video (doing something that's not a big deal in comparison to this). It's a very slippery slope in society if we dig into every single thing somebody has said or done that is not politically-correct by modern standards. There are very influential people, including on the left-wing side, who have a less-than-stellar track record on similar matters.

But anyhow, in light of the emails being made public, the Raiders really had no choice but to let him go. There would have been too much negative PR and protesting had he only gotten suspended. It's very possible he lost the locker room as well.

Fact is that no matter how you feel about cancel culture or freedom of speech, you have to be very judicious about what you say and who you say it to, especially in a professional setting. In any workplace such comments are a fireable offense. Gruden incriminated himself. There's no way he could talk himself out of this one.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

This is rich coming from the NFL
Which played the black national anthem at games and has criminals names on players jerseys
But do not even support the men and women in the service uniforms who keep the arenas safe for them to be able to hold such an event
Mr kettle meet Ms pot

I do think Gruden had to be fired but I also see this is a fair point. There are plenty of straight up criminals in NFL uniforms running around scot free. Gruden said a lot of bad shit but it doesn't compare to the actions of a lot of current and former players. Just look at what Richard Sherman and Antonio Brown have been up to lately, yet the Bucs are putting millions in their pocket which simultaneously trashing Gruden's legacy in their organization. If that isn't hypocrisy I don't know what is.

But anyhow, the difference here is that Gruden is in one of the most visible and influential positions within an organization. Trying to hang onto him wasn't even a consideration in today's socio-political climate. The NFL is trying to expand its fanbase and stuff like this can't fly.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Great. Name me something that was completely acceptable 10 years ago that is now deemed unacceptable. Here's a quote from the NY Magazine that I find true. And no, everyone doesn't do this so don't lump "everyone" in with whoever you are familiar with.

"when Gruden sent emails calling NFL commissioner Roger Goodell a gay slur and deriding female referees, gay former player Michael Sam, and NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith in racist terms. But had those emails come out back then, there probably would have been even less debate about his fate than there is now. An asshole ten years ago looks a lot like an asshole now." NYMagazine.

But go ahead and provide me something completely unacceptable today that was okay 10 years ago.

Well one in regards to the NFL was Rothlisberger raping someone and getting a slap on the wrist from the NFL.

And I'm not saying it was acceptable back when he wrote the emails, but people werent so ready to cancel everyone at the drop of the hat back then as well. With the prominence of Social Media now, and how everyone feels the need to be more outraged than the next so their outrage can go viral, saying things 10 years ago absolutely did not have the same public moral outrage it does now.

You seem to be taking this very personal, as if Gruden wrote these emails about you.

[CitizenX]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Ha... Without sin, hardly. Without anything like this - absolutely. I guess you're condoning his emails/comments/behavior/position on these? Or, is it okay for just some of them? Misogynistic, Racist, Homophobic, Abusive... which is it that you can agree with???? Curious indeed.

You sure about that chief? Are you saying NOT ONCE in your life you never had a thought that could be considered Misogynistic, Racist, Phobic, etc. Are you saying that you NEVER had an unpure thought or said anything that could be considered offensive?

If you say yes, you are a lying sack of crap. We are all human and have all said and done stupid things.

The real question here is, whats the time frame, how far back to we go into everyone's history, 5, 10, 20 years?

Reminder: This goal post keeps getting moved. For example: Everybody laughed a blackface less then a decade ago, now its reason to loose everything you own and be outcast from society.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by CitizenX

You sure about that chief? Are you saying NOT ONCE in your life you never had a thought that could be considered Misogynistic, Racist, Phobic, etc. Are you saying that you NEVER had an unpure thought or said anything that could be considered offensive?.

Don't be an idiot. This isn't about someone's thoughts. This is about someone's public behavior that has come back to bite him in his shorts. This is about being held accountable for stupidly putting one's ignorance on display for all to see. You can think anything you want to but when you put those thoughts into action - you will be found out and held accountable.

Also, it would be impure not unpure. Play around in the shallows before diving into the deep end next time.

You go as far back as someone's background/behavior indicates you should go. When that get's too hot, stay out of the kitchen.

The goal-post didn't get moved. Black-face was always ignorant. And, once again, it's "lose everything" not "loose everything". Pay attention to the misspelling indicator on your computer.

[CitizenX]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Don't be an idiot. This isn't about someone's thoughts. This is about someone's public behavior that has come back to bite him in his shorts. This is about being held accountable for stupidly putting one's ignorance on display for all to see. You can think anything you want to but when you put those thoughts into action - you will be found out and held accountable.

Also, it would be impure not unpure. Play around in the shallows before diving into the deep end next time.

You go as far back as someone's background/behavior indicates you should go. When that get's too hot, stay out of the kitchen.

The goal-post didn't get moved. Black-face was always ignorant. And, once again, it's "lose everything" not "loose everything". Pay attention to the misspelling indicator on your computer.

This was all over emails no? What action did he do other then type his thoughts into words in a private email?

So no time limit eh? Excellent, one can hope someone will have something on you from your younger years that will cost you a job or promotion. Lets see if you change your attitude on that one.

Yes cheif, the goal post did get moved. Blackface was so accepted, it was done on nearly every late night show up until recently. Just once small example. Societal norms are always in constant flux, that is my entire point.

Yes the grammer and spelling drives simpletons such as yourself that consider it a maesure of intelligence nuts. I quite enjoy that. By the way, you missed quite of few of the mistakes, I put some more in here for you. Make sure you point out each and every one of the my spelling grammer mistakes, Its totally not done on purpose, i am truly an idiot. spellinz is hard. Anyone else have all these strange red lines in they're text?

[DenverSteve]

No. Your illiteracy wasn't missed - just pitied. If you come up with a coherent thought, post up. Otherwise, you're just another person with nothing positive to say. We'll move along at the adult end of the table while you wallow in the "gosh I miss the good 'ole days".

[CitizenX]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

No. Your illiteracy wasn't missed - just pitied. If you come up with a coherent thought, post up. Otherwise, you're just another person with nothing positive to say. We'll move along at the adult end of the table while you wallow in the "gosh I miss the good 'ole days".

I feel sorry for you sir if that is what you took away from this, I truly do. Apparently I misjudged your comprehension skills if you thought it was an argument for the "good ole days". Please allow me to spell it out for you in a more simplistic manner your mind is better equipped to handle. I'll go easy on the grammar and spelling for you so you can focus on the argument and not grammatical violations. Follow along with me now:

The point of my argument is simply societal norms are always changing. Judging people on what was said in private conversation decade(s) ago serves no positive purpose and further pushes this quasi police state/cancel culture society we current live in. Everyone is looking to get dirt on everybody. Its sick and disturbing. You talk of negativity, look in the mirror good sir. You are champion of it.

For example: There are many slang terms that could have been said freely in the 80's, 90's, early 2000's without consequence that will now absolutely get you fired or worse. Arguing that you should be judged by present standards of long ago past infractions actions not only makes you look like a pretentious holier-than-thou moron, which I might add you have repeatedly displayed with tenacity in this thread, but also feeds into this toxic culture that is currently plaguing our society. You are fooling none but yourself.

Race and Gender relations are worse today then then there were 20 years ago. Tools such as yourself that go out of their way to dig up anything and blast it to the masses for their 5 minutes of fame or to take someone out are the direct cause of it. You are nothing more then a cheerleader of the cancel mob, someone who will crumble into desperate pleas of forgiveness the moment it happens to them.

On a side note: I noticed the commonality of pointing out grammar/spelling whenever you are in a argument. That is a fascinating (in a pathetic way) cognitive dissonance defense mechanism you have there.

As I mentioned before, I feel sorry for you my pathetic friend, you don't understand what you are. Run along now, the adults are talking.
(sorry I shouldn't stoop to your level, I feel dirty now and take back the adults comment)

[erickonphoenix]

I had mixed feelings about his release. On the one hand, you have to have people in line with the culture of your organization but from what I understand it was 2011??? I figured it could have been handled in-house with some ethics training. We've got to have some mitigation measures to retain talent or the NFL will just become the athletic version of christian rock. Wholesome and non-offensive, but not very engaging. Idk, maybe there was ore to the story and SM wanted him out.