[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by hb

Why? because this car is at competition level already. They started with nearly max power. The next step is CS. What would they add in this base M5 to make it Comp and charge $20-30K more? Genuine question.

I'm gonna remove one variable: their M5 customers don't want a stiffer ride, hence why the suspension is even softer than in the XM.

The car isn't max power..it's limited by the tranny. The V8 isn't even stressed and is still detuned. The V8 alone can make 627 based off the last gen CS. The EV side makes about 200.. that's 822...

Currently the v8 makes 577 hp, 553 lb-ft + AC motor, 194 hp, 207 lb-ft (combined output: 717 hp, 738 lb-ft; 14.8-kWh lithium-ion battery pack; 7.4-kW. They have the ability to kick the EV torque up now to over 300 lb-ft.


I highly doubt it, the comp well stateside would cost 20-30k more... if you look at pricing trends a 10k option.

Again the comp only brought 17 extra hp to the last gen, but brought chassis refinements.

You don't need a stiffer suspension, you need chassis , powertain and steering feel refinement.

The limiting factor is the ZF tranny on the power side.


Again a comp go level 2, cs level 3 and cut weight, install next gen batteries which should be more power dense and come with less wight.

[hb]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

The car isn't max power..it's limited by the tranny. The V8 isn't even stressed and is still detuned. The V8 alone can make 627 based off the last gen CS. The EV side makes about 200.. that's 822...

Currently the v8 makes 577 hp, 553 lb-ft + AC motor, 194 hp, 207 lb-ft (combined output: 717 hp, 738 lb-ft; 14.8-kWh lithium-ion battery pack; 7.4-kW. They have the ability to kick the EV torque up now to over 300 lb-ft.


I highly doubt it, the comp well stateside would cost 20-30k more... if you look at pricing trends a 10k option.

Again the comp only brought 17 extra hp to the last gen, but brought chassis refinements.

You don't need a stiffer suspension, you need chassis , powertain and steering feel refinement.

The limiting factor is the ZF tranny on the power side.


Again a comp go level 2, cs level 3 and cut weight, install next gen batteries which should be more power dense and come with less wight.

All fair points, but again, this started a lot higher in spec than previous M5s, as far as power. There won't be new gen. Service Packs, as they call them, get refreshed every 4-5 years. The facelift 5 Series and M5 are already completed.

Anyway, time will tell, but I would bet on a CS only and maybe special editions.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by hb

All fair points, but again, this started a lot higher in spec than previous M5s, as far as power. There won't be new gen. Service Packs, as they call them, get refreshed every 4-5 years. The facelift 5 Series and M5 are already completed.

Anyway, time will tell, but I would bet on a CS only and maybe special editions.

Added power is the counter to the added weight.


LCI is one thing. However all manufacturers are updating EV parts/motors and battery packs as develops are made which show improvement.

Yes they likely are, but EV parts are plug and play and cross platforms.

Neue Klasse is forthcoming and things will trickly down. If ZF develops a new tranny and power unit it maybe plug and play and lines of code vs the traditional testing of an ICE powertains and emissions testing and clearance.

Again, it makes zero since for bmw not to launch a comp. Build it and people will come if they want it the same as spending 8k for CCBs.


Bmw is in it to make money and a comp version would sell...

[hb]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Added power is the counter to the added weight.


LCI is one thing. However all manufacturers are updating EV parts/motors and battery packs as develops are made which show improvement.

Yes they likely are, but EV parts are plug and play and cross platforms.

Neue Klasse is forthcoming and things will trickly down. If ZF develops a new tranny and power unit it maybe plug and play and lines of code vs the traditional testing of an ICE powertains and emissions testing and clearance.

Again, it makes zero since for bmw not to launch a comp. Build it and people will come if they want it the same as spending 8k for CCBs.


Bmw is in it to make money and a comp version would sell...

The Neue Klasse tech will trickle down to future products, like the G65 X5 and what's coming after, including LCIs, but Gen5 batteries might stay in some products.

I'm 100% sure no Comp, but let's table this and revisit in a few years. Will be the first to admit I was wrong.

Good talking points, though.

[XM Label]

There may not be an M5 comp but nobody said there wouldn’t be an M5 Label….just like there is no XM comp.

[Moopai]

I keep hearing about the EU7 regarding emissions and so on, why MB is not worried about that? The new AMG GT 63S and S63 both have a V8 bi-turbo delivering over 800 hp combined (The engine has 603 hp + ˜188 electric motor). Why did BMW lower the hp on the current 4.4 from 617 hp to 585 hp on the G90. This is bullshit, watch BMW in a few years bringing the LCI, Competition or even CS with the 617 hp. This is all marketing crap, they are trying to get as much $$$ as possible while dropping the hp, interior/audio quality etc for higher margins (it's becoming a money grab). BMW is no longer what they use to be...

Originally Posted by gblansten

No comp pack. I doubt one will be coming as it is too expensive to add power via a larger battery which would take more space. And they are NOT going to increase the output of the V8 due to EU7 enviromental laws on emissions. They are having to walk a fine line on gasoline burn and keep it pretty much as clean as possible. That limits the max HP. To get more they would need dirtier emissions.

If I am wrong then fair enough. But several early launch vids have said no comp pack is coming.

[dcwjd]

Who is buying this car and why? I don’t understand how a car would need both gas plus get plugged in. Shouldn’t it be one or the other? I bought my 21 comp off lease and so glad I did.

[DHDCF]

Originally Posted by dcwjd

Who is buying this car and why? I don’t understand how a car would need both gas plus get plugged in. Shouldn’t it be one or the other? I bought my 21 comp off lease and so glad I did.

To answer your questions: I am one who is buying. The why is because I like the fact it is hybrid. It fits a part of my life/style. Add in that it still has a v8 and m buttons and now it fits another part of my life/style. I've owned a 22m and 23mc and hoping, the whee bit of lag when mashing the pedal, is no longer there.

[TLK]

It’s been said plenty of times that the only way to do a V8 now in Europe is to make a hybrid. That’s the key to the G90 M5. It’s hybrid or no V8. Sorry, but instead of complaining about the hybrid, you should be thankful to still get the V8.

And there’s been talk for a long time that this is the last V8 M5. It could be true if the hybrid tech improves enough by the next series.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Moopai

I keep hearing about the EU7 regarding emissions and so on, why MB is not worried about that? The new AMG GT 63S and S63 both have a V8 bi-turbo delivering over 800 hp combined (The engine has 603 hp + ˜188 electric motor). Why did BMW lower the hp on the current 4.4 from 617 hp to 585 hp on the G90. This is bullshit, watch BMW in a few years bringing the LCI, Competition or even CS with the 617 hp. This is all marketing crap, they are trying to get as much $$$ as possible while dropping the hp, interior/audio quality etc for higher margins (it's becoming a money grab). BMW is no longer what they use to be...

It’s all about sales volume and average fleet emissions. They can spot those cars a V8. The E63 and C63 can’t because they anticipate higher numbers sold. So those are PHEVs.

[Raikkonen]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

gblansten

YES

I think we will have wait and see, my vote is yes in 18-24 months we will get a comp never mind the projected LCI with a new interior for the next gen ID.

I get EU emissions fully. However the motor is detuned and makes less power than what's in the X5m/X6m which is on sale and it's already compliant. I will also note EU emissions have evolved since this was penned out.

Battery tech and EV motors always change for the better so these are swappable parts. Bmw could use a new battery module from the upcoming EVs which are 30% more power dense and I believe lighter. They also indicated the charging speed will change.

I think there will be a Comp and a CS down the road as it wouldn't make sense for bmw not to. They would leave money on the table.

The powertrain can be tuned (different programing/ ev power dumpping/ power curve) as well, and so can the handling dynamics and people will pay.

The US is targeted to be the largest buyer and EU emissions don't apply here.

Completely agree. It's almost impossible for them not to do a Competition, as development costs have already been spent, and regardless of the powertrain, BMW would never leave money on the table.

If Porsche uses identical powertrains in their Cayenne hybrid models (base and S), with one having a higher state of tune and therefore more power, BMW will do the same.

As far as marketing, the XM was an all new model at a much higher price point, so promising a "Red Label" at the outset wouldn't cannibalize future sales either way.

For the M5, combined with an "all profit" exterior trim package, suspension tweaks, standard carbon roof, race buckets, etc., the Competition will be coming... currently, we're just witnessing a simple example of the Osborne effect.

[hb]

Originally Posted by Raikkonen

Completely agree. It's almost impossible for them not to do a Competition, as development costs have already been spent, and regardless of the powertrain, BMW would never leave money on the table.

If Porsche uses identical powertrains in their Cayenne hybrid models (base and S), with one having a higher state of tune and therefore more power, BMW will do the same.

As far as marketing, the XM was an all new model at a much higher price point, so promising a "Red Label" at the outset wouldn't cannibalize future sales either way.

For the M5, combined with an "all profit" exterior trim package, suspension tweaks, standard carbon roof, race buckets, etc., the Competition will be coming... currently, we're just witnessing a simple example of the Osborne effect.

Still not happening. There are currently zero plans.

[TLK]

I think you're dreaming. They already cheaped out by just transplanting the XM engine. This is the end of the BMW V8, so they aren't investing any more money in it.

[XM Label]

Originally Posted by dcwjd

Who is buying this car and why? I don’t understand how a car would need both gas plus get plugged in. Shouldn’t it be one or the other? I bought my 21 comp off lease and so glad I did.

It is for someone like me who always drives their gas tank to below empty….now you have electric part to get you to gas station😂

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by RichardInCA

There’s definitely ways to add more power on the electric motor side of the equation (regardless of battery capacity)….but who knows?

In hybrids the power limiting factor is almost always the battery. By increasing capacity you increase the number of cells. This increases the max current discharge the battery can sustain. This is also why you see temporary “boost functions” on hybrids. The batteries cannot sustain that level of power output for longer than a few seconds.

To make more power you either need different cells (with a higher C rating), or more of the same cells.

[CarlosM4]

Once BMW sees its having a hard time shifting units of the G90 (which I believe will be soon - 10 to 12 months), it will come out with Competition, then CS, then all kinds of version.

EU has changed, and there are higher outputs of the S68.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by dcwjd

Who is buying this car and why? I don’t understand how a car would need both gas plus get plugged in. Shouldn’t it be one or the other? I bought my 21 comp off lease and so glad I did.

Nice troll... but lots of folks buy cars like these.

My i8 is always plugged in. (Right next to my I7 M70 and my wife's iX M60). I typically run the i8 around town on electric but it still allowed me to run a last minute 3700 mile cross-country trip on gas only...

[evanevery]

Of course there will be a Comp edition! Not guessing on the specifics, but I'm surely expecting one...

Perhaps folks who are stridently saying this won't happen are just trying to justify not waiting for it?

Personally, I'm waiting on a G99 allocation and THEN for the car to enter the Individual Program (for paint and stitching).

Call me masochistic, but I don't mind waiting for my cars...

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Of course there will be a Comp edition! Not guessing on the specifics, but I'm surely expecting one...

Perhaps folks who are stridently saying this won't happen are just trying to justify not waiting for it?

Personally, I'm waiting on a G99 allocation and THEN for the car to enter the Individual Program (for paint and stitching).

Call me masochistic, but I don't mind waiting for my cars...

There is no M2 Comp. I wonder if BMW is getting away from that now for whatever reason. Also, it sounds like the ZF transmission is capped at current power levels anyway...

[Moopai]

This company is turning into a marketing behemoth, it's all about making money! Give them six-eight months after they start shipping the G90 and you will probably start seeing camouflaged Competition version on the Nürburgring being tested. The S68 is capable of producing more than 600 hp why did BMW bring it out on the G90 with only 585 hp??? The answer is to make room for the future Competition version or whatever they want to call it.

Hopefully by then they will offer a better interior options and quality than the current...

Originally Posted by WWM3

There is no M2 Comp. I wonder if BMW is getting away from that now for whatever reason. Also, it sounds like the ZF transmission is capped at current power levels anyway...

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by WWM3

There is no M2 Comp. I wonder if BMW is getting away from that now for whatever reason. Also, it sounds like the ZF transmission is capped at current power levels anyway...

There was an interview with someone from BMW by BMW Blog. They said at the end basically every M5 ordered was the competition, so rather than managing two models the base now is the competion. She was pretty definitive there will not be a G90 M5 Competition, but I think we could see a CS model.

[hb]

Originally Posted by Crazy1323

There was an interview with someone from BMW by BMW Blog. They said at the end basically every M5 ordered was the competition, so rather than managing two models the base now is the competion. She was pretty definitive there will not be a G90 M5 Competition, but I think we could see a CS model.

Exactly